BK Ashford 30 Install

[moresnow]

The OP got rid of the adapter early on to eliminate that poor connection. He is running his DSP directly to the collar. Nice tight fit I have been told. As I have experienced.
Just to clear up this topic! Unless something has changed.

I recommended he go this route as it has worked nicely on a few BK's for me. Guessing he will confirm shortly.

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

Thanks Webby. Selkirk also has a DSP flush mount adapter which is essentially the same concept. I mushed a bunch of HT gasket around the inner flue edge to try blocking off any possible deposits from getting in there. It is of course not an airtight seal, but there should be limited amount of buildup if there was any. Of course I'm still getting vapors emitting from the stove detectible only wafting around the collar/cat probe.

Luckily the temp is way more under control now. The outside of the stove pipe stays between 150-200°F rather than getting above 250°F with the extended chimney.

 

[webby3650]

The OP got rid of the adapter early on to eliminate that poor connection. He is running his DSP directly to the collar. Nice tight fit I have been told. As I have experienced.
Just to clear up this topic! Unless something has changed.

I recommended he go this route as it has worked nicely on a few BK's for me. Guessing he will confirm shortly.

Good deal, I didn’t read all the way through. We don’t do that because the pipe is just sitting there, especially with a 90! There’s not much keeping pipe up.

 

[webby3650]

Thanks Webby. Selkirk also has a DSP flush mount adapter which is essentially the same concept. I mushed a bunch of HT gasket around the inner flue edge to try blocking off any possible deposits from getting in there.

Luckily the temp is way more under control now. The outside of the stove pipe stays between 150-200°F rather than getting above 250°F with the extended chimney.

Did you switch out the DVL for DSP?

 

[bholler]

How do most installers attach double wall pipe to a flue collar? The factory stove pipe adaptor is typically just sat over the flue collar, it’s certainly not sealed well or secure most often. I feel that this could be the source of the smell on some of these problemed stoves.

That may be typical for your area but not here. Even the guys I consider to be hacks attach to the stove. I always attach it. When we go to do a double wall install we go with the 3 different adapters ventis makes. Between them and just the pipe end one will fit well. I don't mix pipe brands when dealing with ul listed products in order to stay code compliant.

 

[webby3650]

That may be typical for your area but not here. Even the guys I consider to be hacks attach to the stove. I always attach it. When we go to do a double wall install we go with the 3 different adapters ventis makes. Between them and just the pipe end one will fit well. I don't mix pipe brands when dealing with ul listed products in order to stay code compliant.

It’s just a small piece of SS, I wouldn’t consider it mixing brands necessarily. If ventis makes a stovetop adaptor and you don’t use it, just set the pipe on the flue collar, is that ok? In the event of a claim, I’d bet they would have a problem with that too.
If you just use the pipe end of double wall, how do you attach it?

 

[bholler]

It’s just a small piece of SS, I wouldn’t consider it mixing brands necessarily. If ventis makes a stovetop adaptor and you don’t use it, just sat the pipe on the flue collar, is that ok? In the event of an claim, I’d bet they would have a problem with that too.
If you just use the pipe end of double wall, how do you attach it?

No it wouldnt be a problem at all it is allowed in the manual. And if i just use the pipe i drill it and attach it. If you don't have the double wall components all the way to the stove what clearance do you go by?

 

[webby3650]

No it wouldnt be a problem at all it is allowed in the manual. And if i just use the pipe i drill it and attach it. If you don't have the double wall components all the way to the stove what clearance do you go by?

It does go all the way to the stove.

 

[bholler]

It does go all the way to the stove.

Then where does your extra adapter go? If you are putting a peice of single wall in there you can't be sitting down as far as it should be or as it was tested for clearances. If you can't do it properly with the supplied system components maybe you should consider switching brands to one with more options

 

[webby3650]

Then where does your extra adapter go? If you are putting a peice of single wall in there you can't be sitting down as far as it should be or as it was tested for clearances. If you can't do it properly with the supplied system components maybe you should consider switching brands to one with more options

You aren’t familiar with it and I knew you’d tear the idea apart. It’s a real world solution for a situation that often comes up on here, and in the real world. It works well and is versatile.
So are manufacturers ok with you drilling holes through their flue collars to attach pipe?

 

[bholler]

You aren’t familiar with it and I knew you’d tear the idea apart. It’s a real world solution for a situation that often comes up on here, and in the real world. It works well and is versatile.
So are manufacturers ok with you drilling holes through their flue collars to attach pipe?

There are almost always holes there already that I use. If there are no holes in the collar then yes I will drill them. But that is very uncommon.
You still haven't answered how you can put a single wall adapter in a ul listed double wall system it wasn't designed for and keep the listed clearances. We don't get to make up our own clearances.

 

[webby3650]

There are almost always holes there already that I use. If there are no holes in the collar then yes I will drill them. But that is very uncommon.
You still haven't answered how you can put a single wall adapter in a ul listed double wall system it wasn't designed for and keep the listed clearances. We don't get to make up our own clearances.

The double wall covers this piece And sits flush with the top of the flue collar. But I know you aren’t really interested in how it works, rather looking for a way to discredit someone.

 

[bholler]

The double wall covers this piece And sits flush with the top of the flue collar. But I know you aren’t really interested in how it works, rather looking for a way to discredit someone.

I am not the one who said no one else attaches or seals st the collar.

I am curious who in your company decides when it is acceptable to use unlisted components with a listed system ignoring the manufacturers instructions. Where do they draw the line? Are installers allowed to make those decisions in the field?

 

[brenndatomu]

 

[Ashful]

Where else could it come out, besides the door gasket or the flue collar? Ash dump? Doesn't seem likely...

Some have claimed the cat probe hole. Another guy had a bad weld that was oozing creo and baking it on the outside.

Others have claimed wet creo or water boiling off the logs soaking thru the gasket and baking on the outside. Yes, still a “leaking at gasket” claim, but these users make a distinction, it is oozing creo and not directly leaking smoke.

I’m not sure my nose is good enough to make the distinction. I know the sweet licorice smell of smoldering too-wet oak on low burn, but if my stove were making the house smell of smoke, I’d probably have a tough time to determining the source of it.

 

[webby3650]

I am not the one who said no one else attaches or seals st the collar.

I am curious who in your company decides when it is acceptable to use unlisted components with a listed system ignoring the manufacturers instructions. Where do they draw the line? Are installers allowed to make those decisions in the field?

Give it a rest. I’m just trying to offer a solution that works.
I’ve never seen so many locked thread in the 10 years or so since I’ve been here. If there’s something you don’t agree with, you argue until the thread is locked. People looking for a solution are just out of luck because of your arguing.

 

[webby3650]

Some have claimed the cat probe hole. Another guy had a bad weld that was oozing creo and baking it on the outside.

Others have claimed wet creo or water boiling off the logs soaking thru the basket and baking on the outside. Yes, still a “leaking at gasket” claim, but these users make a distinction, it is oozing creo and not directly leaking smoke.

I’m not sure my nose is good enough to make the distinction. I know the sweet licorice smell of smoldering too-wet oak on low burn, but if my stove were making the house smell of smoke, I’d probably have a tough time to determining the source of it.

We’ve had a few stoves a couple of years back that had a bad weld. BK replaced both stoves, at no cost to us or the customer, even though replacement wasn’t necessary. They wanted it back to look it over for other missed welds. Neither of which were experiencing smoke smell issues.

 

[bholler]

Give it a rest. I’m just trying to offer a solution that works.
I’ve never seen so many locked thread in the 10 years or so since I’ve been here. If there’s something you don’t agree with, you argue until the thread is locked. People looking for a solution are just out of luck because of your arguing.

I am sorry that I don't agree with a pro telling novices it is ok to ignore manufacturers instructions and just make it work. It is a very slippery slope that can lead to dangerous installs.

 

[webby3650]

I am sorry that I don't agree with a pro telling novices it is ok to ignore manufacturers instructions and just make it work. It is a very slippery slope that can lead to dangerous installs.

I appreciate your concern for folks, I really do. This is not something that’s unsafe by any means. Many of the brands only offer one stovetop adaptor that simply sits on the flue collar and doesn’t seal well. It’s a solution to a problem that some manufacturers leave as a grey area.

 

[bholler]

I appreciate your concern for folks, I really do. This is not something that’s unsafe by any means. Many of the brands only offer one stovetop adaptor that simply sits on the flue collar and doesn’t seal well. It’s a solution to a problem that some manufacturers leave as a grey area.

I absolutely agree some adapters fit like crap. But I personally don't see that ignoring manufacturers instructions is ever the right solution. I agree in this case I don't think it is unsafe. But we as pros should never say it is ok to ignore instructions. It just open up a very dangerous can of worms.

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

Hey guys. I have no adapter anymore. It seems to be producing significantly less creo smell since then, but still smelling. That adapter was a piece of crap. The internal pipe was maybe hallway into the stove collar. Just the act of turning down the tstat was enough to puff a bunch of this smell.
I'm not sure it's exactly a smoke smell like a campfire, just the sweet dirty chimney creo smell. I don't know if it's actually smoke leaking out or some type of smell coming from hot creo somewhere. I would guess it is the latter.

It seems like the current signs are pointing to creo absorbing in the door gasket, though I can waft all around the door gasket and smell nothing, but waft around the probe/collar area and clearly get smell.

 

[webby3650]

Hey guys. I have no adapter anymore. It seems to be producing significantly less creo smell since then, but still smelling. That adapter was a piece of crap. The internal pipe was maybe hallway into the stove collar. Just the act of turning down the tstat was enough to puff a bunch of this smell.
I'm not sure it's exactly a smoke smell, like a campfire, just the sweet dirty chimney creo smell. I don't know if it's actually smoke leaking out or some type of smell coming from hot creo somewhere. I would guess it is the latter.

It seems like the current signs are pointing to creo absorbing in the door gasket, though I can waft all around the door gasket and smell nothing, but waft around the probe/collar area and clearly get smell.

Maybe it’s time to try a positive connection at the stovetop?

 

[webby3650]

Hey guys. I have no adapter anymore. It seems to be producing significantly less creo smell since then, but still smelling. That adapter was a piece of crap. The internal pipe was maybe hallway into the stove collar. Just the act of turning down the tstat was enough to puff a bunch of this smell.
I'm not sure it's exactly a smoke smell, like a campfire, just the sweet dirty chimney creo smell. I don't know if it's actually smoke leaking out or some type of smell coming from hot creo somewhere. I would guess it is the latter.

It seems like the current signs are pointing to creo absorbing in the door gasket, though I can waft all around the door gasket and smell nothing, but waft around the probe/collar area and clearly get smell.

When these few cases of smoke smell issues arise, it’s so hard to pinpoint. Seems like everyone smells it at or near the stovetop, I like to eliminate that flue collar connection first. Too bad you are so far away or I’d be glad to take a look at it.

 

[Woody Stover]

consider switching brands to one with more options

Sounds like you had to search around until you found what was most versatile. I could be wrong but I'm guessing that most probably settle for whatever the local supply house stocks, so they don't have to pay shipping. All three of my in-laws have Selkirk, even though they were done by different builders or installers.
Down here, there's plenty of slap-dash hack work with duct tape and bailing wire solutions. I don't know if you were here when I told of looking at my BIL's install by "a guy who used to work at the stove shop." Maybe he only cut the grass there, but the support box was fastened with one screw, into one joist. The weight of the chimney had bent it down to where it wasn't even close to level. It started pushing the trim plate away from the ceiling on one side, was how I noticed it. I had to crawl up there in limited space and box off the joists as best I could (bad routing of the chimney, with stuff in the way preventing a straight-forward box-off.)

 

[moresnow]

With upstairs windows closed you should be able to eliminate the probe hole easily. Plug the hole and see if its fixed! Right?

If that does not stop the smell you may have to consider pulling the cast cladding (prior to firing up. ouch!). God I am gonna pay for this suggestion
Then fire up for a more in depth look/smell/visual inspection. Do this only under constant supervision of coarse as this is clearly not a accepted/tested/by the book procedure! Possibly add some extra temporary shielding, and get your fire dept., local LEO, EMT's, dealer rep., faith advisor etc. on standby.....

How else are you going to find out? Really? Other than installing a rather proven Princess model as a "control" unit. That would be the real answer if realistically possible. Be nice to say its just this particular Ashford that has a problem. Or its plainly does not!

Obviously injecting a bit of humor here fellas. Anybody have a better diagnostic procedure at this point? Surely the OP is open to suggestion. Page 16 BTW. Wow