BK Ashford 30 Install

[Woody Stover]

There are some theories that too much draft strength sucks air through the firebox in a manner to disrupt the normally laminar flow pattern and cause turbulence that may blow smoke out of odd places. That’s why so many focus on the door gasket. Even bk released a gasket upgrade.

Without looking back, did he mention that smell was coming from the gasket area, or just around the collar?
What about the appliance adaptor that @webby3650 has mentioned in the past, that fit and sealed really well? Was he using that for Ashfords, or other BKs? Would it work with the OP's brand of connector pipe?

 

[bholler]

How can airborne creosote particles come out of the probe hole if your flue is clearly under vacuum? Air would be entering around the probe hole, not exiting. My interior masonry chimney was built before code changed to only one appliance per flue and has thimbles upstairs. The thimbles have caps, but obviously no gaskets and they aren't air tight. My clean out door also doesn't have a gasket. I don't get any smell, even burning wood that is steaming out of the ends with three air leaks on top of the stove that also has holes in it.

I clearly misunderstood some of your posts. I was under the impression that if you closed the thermostat below 75% open that your fire would stall and your cat would then stall, when using larger pieces of wood. It makes sense now that your stove almost overheats when using small splits with your high draft. However, why can't the thermostat keep up? Aren't these stoves set it and forget it? I must be missing something.

You really need to properly patch those old crocks. In the event of a chimney ire they can cause major problems

 

[SpaceBus]

You really need to properly patch those old crocks. In the event of a chimney ire they can cause major problems

As in pull the thimbles and fill the holes?

 

[bholler]

As in pull the thimbles and fill the holes?

If they are clay thimbles and don't extend into the flue you don't need to pull them. Just patch them solid with firebrick and refractory cement.

 

[SpaceBus]

If they are clay thimbles and don't extend into the flue you don't need to pull them. Just patch them solid with firebrick and refractory cement.

Oh, they are metal thimbles through concrete block and then into a clay flue. There's some tiny cracks around one of the thimbles. Eventually I'd like to just get a Mason to take them out and make the whole thing smooth upstairs. I'm getting a liner before next season so it shouldn't be an issue anyway.

 

[bholler]

Oh, they are metal thimbles through concrete block and then into a clay flue. There's some tiny cracks around one of the thimbles. Eventually I'd like to just get a Mason to take them out and make the whole thing smooth upstairs. I'm getting a liner before next season so it shouldn't be an issue anyway.

They still need patched properly with a liner

 

[SpaceBus]

They still need patched properly with a liner

Yes, that will happen. A liner will have to wait until after the heating season.

 

[Highbeam]

So vcs, you keep on referring to the cat meter for temperatures. Stop doing that, in fact, only consider that meter when determining whether or not the cat is active. It’s an on/off switch and some new models are actually wired to be on/off switches.

You are only able to control the thermostat setting. Catalyst temperature moves all around for various reasons but only falls below the active line to “off” if you’re out of fuel or if you’ve turned your thermostat too low.

I sure hope all of your overly specific “55%” reports of stove setting are referring to the thermostat knob on the back.

 

[Highbeam]

s
Without looking back, did he mention that smell was coming from the gasket area, or just around the collar?
What about the appliance adaptor that @webby3650 has mentioned in the past, that fit and sealed really well? Was he using that for Ashfords, or other BKs? Would it work with the OP's brand of connector pipe?

You can’t be certain where a smell is coming from on a jacketed hot stove.

 

[Woody Stover]

You can’t be certain where a smell is coming from on a jacketed hot stove.

You could tell if it was coming from the door gasket, as many have reported.

 

[webby3650]

s
Without looking back, did he mention that smell was coming from the gasket area, or just around the collar?
What about the appliance adaptor that @webby3650 has mentioned in the past, that fit and sealed really well? Was he using that for Ashfords, or other BKs? Would it work with the OP's brand of connector pipe?

Almost no one has a positive connection at the stove top like we do them. We never have any smoke smell issues either...

 

[Woody Stover]

Almost no one has a positive connection at the stove top like we do them. We never have any smoke smell issues either...

You're playing your cards close to the vest...I guess he'll have to hire you to find out how you do it.

 

[Highbeam]

You could tell if it was coming from the door gasket, as many have reported.

Meh, not conclusively. The stove is piping hot and those fumes rise while clinging to the steel. I feel bad for those with a smell as it doesn’t matter where the leak is it shouldn’t leak.

 

[Woody Stover]

not conclusively.

Where else could it come out, besides the door gasket or the flue collar? Ash dump? Doesn't seem likely...

 

[Highbeam]

Where else could it come out, besides the door gasket or the flue collar? Ash dump? Doesn't seem likely...

All are possible and all are unlikely. All gaskets can leak or ooze stench. The cat probe hole, all welds on all seams, the flue connection.

 

[bholler]

Almost no one has a positive connection at the stove top like we do them. We never have any smoke smell issues either...

What do you mean by almost no one has a positive connection like you do? How many other installers work have you seen? And i also find it very hard to beleive a stove shop has never had a complaint about smoke smell. I cant think of any we had due to our install but there have been plenty of problems due to user error restricted chimneys etc.

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

So I removed 3ft of chimney and that has lowered the draft to about 0.12-0.13 on high. The initial load of 4 logs and kindling took forever to burn. Maybe 4hrs. Everything seemed fine and the stove pipe was about 50°F cooler.

I reloaded 30lbs NS and let it burn about 20min. It seems to be slowing down in the medium cat range. It hasn't snuffed the flame but I think I am smelling a small hint of creo smell already in the hallway. I can smell a bit around the probe/collar still. I guess the question is whether that will build all night or just temporary as the draft is slowing.

It seems pretty unlikely there is literal smoke blowing into the room. It's more like there is some type of creo deposit getting hot and it gets in a spot where the draft can't suck the vapors into the chimney. Maybe it builds enough to block itself off. That's why I was guessing it might be getting some wafts around the inner flue collar. It seemed like a sign that blowing a hair dryer up the flue blasts creo crumbs out the stove connections.

It's kind of a relief the chimney isn't a complete failure but completely baffled where to go from here. Maybe a new stove next year? How do I know it won't have this problem?

 

[bholler]

So I removed 3ft of chimney and that has lowered the draft to about 0.12-0.13 on high. The initial load of 4 logs and kindling took forever to burn. Maybe 4hrs. Everything seemed fine and the stove pipe was about 50°F cooler.

I reloaded 30lbs NS and let it burn about 20min. It seems to be slowing down in the medium cat range. It hasn't snuffed the flame but I think I am smelling a small hint of creo smell already in the hallway. I can smell a bit around the probe/collar still. I guess the question is whether that will build all night or just temporary as the draft is slowing.

It seems pretty unlikely there is literal smoke blowing into the room. It's more like there is some type of creo deposit getting hot and it gets in a spot where the draft can't suck the vapors into the chimney. Maybe it builds enough to block itself off. That's why I was guessing it might be getting some wafts around the inner flue collar.

It's kind of a relief the chimney isn't a complete failure but completely baffled where to go from here. Maybe a new stove next year? How do I know it won't have this problem?

Just out of curiousity what does the manometer read with no fire at all?

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

It was getting down to about 0.02" when the stove was at 80-90°F STT.

And @Highbeam, you don't have to be so pedantic. Yes, I understand the cat probe is not the same temp as STT for example, but I have a separate gauge that I use for reference and it tracks very closely with STT ranges. As far as general ranges, over a 30min time frame, low, medium and high cat temp all matched some STT range. Low was approx 150-250, medium 250-400, high about 400-600. Sure, it can spike for 10min or so on certain conditions.

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

And update: it has lost the flame and lots of creo smell is in the hallway upstairs. It at least is running cooler so it is more useable for shoulder season. Windows back open for the night... Meter is reading 0.08" on medium setting ~60%.

Going back to EW loads tomorrow. Maybe that burns more smoke before sucking out the cat? Did great this morning with a smaller load.

Guess I will give BK a call tomorrow with this new info. They can't blame it on an uninsulated chimney.

 

[begreen]

Guess I will give BK a call tomorrow with this new info. They can't blame it on an uninsulated chimney.

Is this connected to a metal stainless chimney outside? If so, this is insulated.

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

Is this connected to a metal stainless chimney outside? If so, this is insulated.

Yes. Uncovered external chimney. Selkirk UT class A chimney.

 

[webby3650]

What do you mean by almost no one has a positive connection like you do? How many other installers work have you seen? And i also find it very hard to beleive a stove shop has never had a complaint about smoke smell. I cant think of any we had due to our install but there have been plenty of problems due to user error restricted chimneys etc.

How do most installers attach double wall pipe to a flue collar? The factory stove pipe adaptor is typically just sat over the flue collar, it’s certainly not sealed well or secure most often. I feel that this could be the source of the smell on some of these problemed stoves.

 

[webby3650]

Sounds like possibility not a perfect draft and maybe a connector problem? There aren't even any screws connecting the DVL adapter to the stove outlet, just slipped on. Should they have also put some sealant on all the DVL

I haven’t been following this thread. But this is what I found on the first page...

 

[webby3650]

We install an Ameri-vent single wall adaptor into the flue collar. You need to trim it down to fit the flue collar, each stove is different. This gets secured with screws to the flue collar. Then your DVL sits firmly down onto the bell of this adaptor. Then you are able to predrill through the factory holes of the DVL and attach it to the adaptor using 1” SS screws. It’s a very secure connection and you could even use some furnace cement if you felt it necessary. This works very well for us, if you haven’t thrown in the towel yet it may be worth a try.

Excel has essentially the same type of adaptor for their pipe I’m told.