BK Ashford 30 in unfinished basement

[NewToVT]

Thank you.

OP, bkvp is what his name suggests.
Seems an Ashford would work and your concern is not a problem if you adhere to the manual (as you should anyway).

They beauty is that you can run it a bit harder now but if you insulate you can run it at lower output.

The other concern about basement installs is negative pressure, where your home functions as a chimney (drafts warm air up) which can lead to smoke roll out (or CO).

Hard to say if this would be an issue. If the upstairs and the ceiling to the attic is well air sealed, it may not be an issue.

If something can burn my house down if I use it wrong, I’m going to follow the manual to the letter 😁

We just had a bunch of air sealing done in the attic, so hopefully the latter won’t be an issue.

I think we would consider insulation down the road, but we’d want to do it right and sheetrock over, and that’s not in the budget right now as that would not be a DIY for us.

We don’t like it very warm anyway, so if the stove can take the basement from its current 54 F to something closer to 70 F and provide a little warmth on the main level to offset some of the heating there, we’ll be happy.

 

[NewToVT]

I was wondering the same. Possibly just needs new gasketing/cementing? Or, warped panels inside from over firing?

Care to share some more pics OP?

The chimney sweep said it was a knockoff of a Vermont Castings. I can take some close up pics later and post.

 

[stoveliker]

It was an insulation contractor who suggested sprayfoam at the rim joists. If spray foam isn’t good, and fiberglass isn’t good, what should go there?

We just spent a bunch of money on air sealing in the attic (by a different insulation contractor), mainly because VT has a really good rebate on that, so we were going to wait a bit on any basement insulation, rim joist or otherwise, but good to know for the future.

It would only be a problem if the outside has a vapor barrier applied to the rim joist, such as foam board

 

[NewToVT]

Here are the close up pics of the old stove, for those who asked.

We’ve never used it, as per warnings from the chimney sweep.

 

[BKVP]

Is there a safety label anywhere on the stove? Would have mfg info, date of mfg, sometimes clearance drawings/specs, and agency that performed safety tests?

BKVP

 

[BKVP]

Is VT running a stove changeout in your area? I'd check because that might be a pre EPA and eligible if there is a program near you.

BKVP

 

[all night moe]

What's the chimney sweeps cause of alarm? Granted it's not a modern stove, but what's unsafe?
Interior pics? Are the panel joints good?

 

[stoveliker]

The whitishness suggests overfiring.

 

[begreen]

Here are the close up pics of the old stove, for those who asked.

We’ve never used it, as per warnings from the chimney sweep.

View attachment 334229View attachment 334228View attachment 334227View attachment 334226View attachment 334225View attachment 334224

It's a Taiwan clone of the Vigilant. They weren't known for the tightest stoves. Definitely see if there is a VT changeout program.

 

[NewToVT]

Is there a safety label anywhere on the stove? Would have mfg info, date of mfg, sometimes clearance drawings/specs, and agency that performed safety tests?

BKVP

I did not see anything on the stove, but seems like begreen has identified it.

 

[NewToVT]

Is VT running a stove changeout in your area? I'd check because that might be a pre EPA and eligible if there is a program near you.

BKVP

There’s currently a $400 credit for eligible stoves in VT, which the dealer takes off the price of the stove at purchase.

 

[NewToVT]

What's the chimney sweeps cause of alarm? Granted it's not a modern stove, but what's unsafe?
Interior pics? Are the panel joints good?

It was about a year ago at this point and he gave us a long explanation over the phone. I don’t really remember the details. We’ve never had a wood stove before so the details didn’t mean a lot to me a the time.

 

[BKVP]

There’s currently a $400 credit for eligible stoves in VT, which the dealer takes off the price of the stove at purchase.

Check with your accountant. The stove you have on order meets the requirements of the Federal Tax credit. Great if you can claim BOTH!

BKVP

 

[NewToVT]

Check with your accountant. The stove you have on order meets the requirements of the Federal Tax credit. Great if you can claim BOTH!

BKVP

Yes, that’s the plan!

 

[NewToVT]

Thanks everyone for your input, clarifications and advice! Very helpful.

I think we’ll go ahead with the order and look into fully insulating at a later date (not in the budget now).

We’ll see if we can get someone knowledgeable to look at the rim joist insulation to see if anything should be done with that now to avoid issues.

I’ll post pics once the new stove is installed and let you know how it goes.

 

[begreen]

Good plan. Note that the best results will be seen after insulating the basement. When budgeting, remember that until the insulation is done, about 1/3d of the heat produced will be going out the walls. In other words, one cord in three burned will be sacrificed to keep the worms in the earth outside warmer.

 

[Itslay90]

Good plan. Note that the best results will be seen after insulating the basement. When budgeting, remember that until the insulation is done, about 1/3d of the heat produced will be going out the walls. In other words, one cord in three burned will be sacrificed to keep the worms in the earth outside warmer.

I noticed a difference this year by insulating the walls, it really does save on wood !

 

[NewToVT]

Update
+ question about wood smoke smell (possibly due to the door not fully closing? - see pictures below)

Our new Ashford 30.2 has been installed by a local dealer, and as per our insurance requirements we had the installation inspected by a chimney sweep.

To answer an earlier question that I did not have the answer to earlier. The installers confirmed that our flue is 8” diameter and they installed a 6” reducer to the stove, single walled (see pictures below). The flue goes straight up from the stove through the roof, no elbows. We have not had issues with getting the fire lit or smoke rolling out on reload. Outside temps have been around 20 F or lower. We have had issues with a wood smoke smell when operating the stove generally. More below.

We did the initial burn, which as expected was very smelly and smokey (all paint curing), but our air purifiers along with an open window mostly took care of it. For the most part the smell stayed in the basement and did not get into the main level of the house and mostly cleared out within a day or so. The chemical smell seems to be gone now.

Towards the end of that initial burn, a couple of hours after the chemical smell/smoke disappeared, we started to get a wood smoke smell which persisted until the fire was out. I let the stove completely cool after that initial burn.

The wood smoke smell has continued on subsequent burns. I don’t see any actual smoke. It’s not terrible and our air purifier is registering the particulate matter as fairly low, but the smell is definitely noticeable.

I followed the procedure in the manual: bypass is closed, the cat thermometer is in the active range and the cat is glowing. Outside I see a small amount of white smoke from the chimney and don’t smell wood smoke outside at this point in the burn. I turned down the thermostat slowly but its still in the medium/high range.

One thing I noticed right away is that it seems like the door is not completely closed, even though it’s closed and latched. Could this be causing the issue? If not, what else should I be looking for?



Thanks!

 

[BKVP]

I just upset my production guys and tore into a brand new unit. That door is completely normal and closed. Your AF30.2 is designed to run on 6" chimney system. Why is it installed on 8"? Also, the manual recommends the use of 6" double wall black pipe. You may want to look at the seals around the single wall pipe.

AF30.2's are an updated design and we've not had any issues with 30.2's that were not solved by a proper installation. Are there any fans or blowers competing for air? I see the window in the background. Although difficult to design, can you get fresh air to the unit or are all floor areas below grade?

BKVP

 

[stoveliker]

Towards the end of that initial burn, a couple of hours after the chemical smell/smoke disappeared, we started to get a wood smoke smell which persisted until the fire was out.

To me this suggests something else than the infamous (previous model) Ashford smoke smell issues.
In that initial burn it is unlikely you'll be creating creosote leaking through a gasket. Moreover, given that it's at the end of a burn, I wonder if you have some nearly reversing draft. (very low draft, one gust of wind pushing a little out of the air inlet of the stove).

So, for safety: Do you have CO and smoke alarms in that space, AND along where the warmer air flows upstairs?

To test: Do you have the same smell if you crack a window? Being on a lower floor one sometimes has lower pressures because warm air leaks out of the top floors of the home, (i.e. your home also functions like a chimney with draft, and that competes with the air flow through the stove).

 

[NewToVT]

I just upset my production guys and tore into a brand new unit. That door is completely normal and closed. Your AF30.2 is designed to run on 6" chimney system. Why is it installed on 8"? Also, the manual recommends the use of 6" double wall black pipe. You may want to look at the seals around the single wall pipe.

AF30.2's are an updated design and we've not had any issues with 30.2's that were not solved by a proper installation. Are there any fans or blowers competing for air? I see the window in the background. Although difficult to design, can you get fresh air to the unit or are all floor areas below grade?

BKVP

Thanks for the confirmation on the door being ok.

I’ll check into the seals around the single wall pipe. I can’t really pinpoint where the smell is coming from. I don’t know if it’s the stove or the pipe.

Our property tends to be very windy as it’s wide open with very few trees, maybe that’s a contributing factor.

All windows in the basement can be opened; however, they are very close to the ground outside and there is a lot of snow around them so I don’t want to open those. I opened the one on the stairs leading down to the basement, but it didn’t really make much of a difference.

We have a heat pump on the main floor that is currently on.

Edit: I just opened the window that is directly across from the stove, I’ll give it a few minutes and see if that changes anything, and then I’ll come back and edit this post.

Edit 2: I gave it about an hour with the open window near the stove, and it improved the air quality somewhat (according to the air purifier) but I could still smell the wood smoke smell at the base of the pipe. The dealer is going to send someone out to check for any issues with the seals on the pipe. I’ll provide another update after.

 

[NewToVT]

To me this suggests something else than the infamous (previous model) Ashford smoke smell issues.
In that initial burn it is unlikely you'll be creating creosote leaking through a gasket. Moreover, given that it's at the end of a burn, I wonder if you have some nearly reversing draft. (very low draft, one gust of wind pushing a little out of the air inlet of the stove).

So, for safety: Do you have CO and smoke alarms in that space, AND along where the warmer air flows upstairs?

To test: Do you have the same smell if you crack a window? Being on a lower floor one sometimes has lower pressures because warm air leaks out of the top floors of the home, (i.e. your home also functions like a chimney with draft, and that competes with the air flow through the stove).

Opening a window didn’t help.

We do have CO and smoke alarms in the basement.

 

[NewToVT]

The wood smoke smell seems to be coming from somewhere near where the pipe connects to the stove, so looking into the seals around the pipe might be our best bet.

I checked with the dealer and they’re going to send someone out to check the seals. They also suggested that when it’s dark to use a flashlight to see if we can see smoke anywhere around the stove pipe to help figure out the source of any leaks.

 

[BKVP]

Have the recommended double wall black pipe installed.

BKVP

 

[stoveliker]

Stove pipe leaks should suck in air, not exhaust it, except for at the end of a burn when draft is down. So you may be right.

Double wall seals better imo. (And helps keep things warm longer, thus keeping an up draft longer.)