BK Ashford 30 Install

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

Thanks Webby... I'm not sure what you mean by a positive flue collar connection? Replace with an adapter like the Selkirk DSP flush mount adapter?

https://www.northlineexpress.com/6-dsp-flush-stove-adaptor-dsp-6-fsa-5392.html

Unfortunately there is no space for it. I'd have to replace my vertical stove pipe. The other problem is that every time I put in a new part it takes 2 weeks to cure and there is tons of smell from that. Probably worse for the health than this creo odor. I think we're getting down to the final two weeks or so of burning here. Over 45°F I barely need any heat.

I might be able to struggle by with E-W loads for 2 weeks. It seems like I can turn that down without losing the flame and on Saturday it did great burn without a flame in E-W with no smell for several hours. That would help to run it low for the warmer days.

 

[webby3650]

With upstairs windows closed you should be able to eliminate the probe hole easily. Plug the hole and see if its fixed! Right?

If that does not stop the smell you may have to consider pulling the cast cladding (prior to firing up. ouch!). God I am gonna pay for this suggestion
Then fire up for a more in depth look/smell/visual inspection. Do this only under constant supervision of coarse as this is clearly not a accepted/tested/by the book procedure! Possibly add some extra temporary shielding, and get your fire dept., local LEO, EMT's, dealer rep., faith advisor etc. on standby.....

How else are you going to find out? Really? Other than installing a rather proven Princess model as a "control" unit. That would be the real answer if realistically possible. Be nice to say its just this particular Ashford that has a problem. Or its plainly does not!

Obviously injecting a bit of humor here fellas. Anybody have a better diagnostic procedure at this point? Surely the OP is open to suggestion. Page 16 BTW. Wow

Removing the cladding temporarily or modifying anything in any manner or thinking outside the box isn’t permitted by the fireplace police!

 

[webby3650]

Thanks Webby... I'm not sure what you mean by a positive flue collar connection? Replace with an adapter like the Selkirk DSP flush mount adapter?

Not really, that’s for stoves with recessed flue collars. I outlined the procedure earlier. Your vertical pipe should have a slip section that allows some modifications or service. You’ll need to pull that pipe up periodically to clean behind the cat, a slip will be necessary for this.

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

@moresnow I covered the probe hole with a screw at one point and was still getting smell. Just loosely dropped on top though. That's what pointed me to replace the crappy stove pipe adapter. That certainly helped a lot. With the tightened collar it seems to only smell with N-S loads smoking within an inch or two of the glass. The stubbornness of this smell has certainly surprised me though.

@webby3650 you are talking about a telescoping pipe? I didn't understand your other posts. Or just using that flush mount adapter piece? So does that just eat up extra gap between the stove collar and my inner pipe? BTW, I never got DVL as quoted by the installer. Always Selkirk DSP.

 

[webby3650]

@moresnow I covered the probe hole with a screw at one point and was still getting smell. Just loosely dropped on top though. That's what pointed me to replace the crappy stove pipe adapter. That certainly helped a lot. With the tightened collar it seems to only smell with N-S loads smoking within an inch or two of the glass. The stubbornness of this smell has certainly surprised me though.

@webby3650 you are talking about a telescoping pipe? I didn't understand your other posts. Or just using that flush mount adapter piece? So does that just eat up extra gap between the stove collar and my inner pipe? BTW, I never got DVL as quoted by the installer. Always Selkirk DSP.

Yes, your vertical pipe should have a telescoping section.
We don’t use DSP, the fit and finish leaves a lot to be desired to say the least..

 

[bholler]

With upstairs windows closed you should be able to eliminate the probe hole easily. Plug the hole and see if its fixed! Right?

If that does not stop the smell you may have to consider pulling the cast cladding (prior to firing up. ouch!). God I am gonna pay for this suggestion
Then fire up for a more in depth look/smell/visual inspection. Do this only under constant supervision of coarse as this is clearly not a accepted/tested/by the book procedure! Possibly add some extra temporary shielding, and get your fire dept., local LEO, EMT's, dealer rep., faith advisor etc. on standby.....

How else are you going to find out? Really? Other than installing a rather proven Princess model as a "control" unit. That would be the real answer if realistically possible. Be nice to say its just this particular Ashford that has a problem. Or its plainly does not!

Obviously injecting a bit of humor here fellas. Anybody have a better diagnostic procedure at this point? Surely the OP is open to suggestion. Page 16 BTW. Wow

That would be for diagnostic purposes and it would be monitored. I see no issue with that at all.

 

[lsucet]

Permit granted

 

[bholler]

Sounds like you had to search around until you found what was most versatile. I could be wrong but I'm guessing that most probably settle for whatever the local supply house stocks, so they don't have to pay shipping. All three of my in-laws have Selkirk, even though they were done by different builders or installers.
Down here, there's plenty of slap-dash hack work with duct tape and bailing wire solutions. I don't know if you were here when I told of looking at my BIL's install by "a guy who used to work at the stove shop." Maybe he only cut the grass there, but the support box was fastened with one screw, into one joist. The weight of the chimney had bent it down to where it wasn't even close to level. It started pushing the trim plate away from the ceiling on one side, was how I noticed it. I had to crawl up there in limited space and box off the joists as best I could (bad routing of the chimney, with stuff in the way preventing a straight-forward box-off.)

I didn't have to search I was lucky enough to come into a business where that was all done. Now yes when new product come to market we may try them if we feel they would be better or easier but my father already had changed over to Olympia products which for the most part we have been very happy with. And we don't pay shipping on them either

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

Yes, your vertical pipe should have a telescoping section.
We don’t use DSP, the fit and finish leaves a lot to be desired to say the least..

Yes, we can thank the installers for that. Unfortunately Selkirk does not have any telescoping sections in the 18-29" range. I bought a 12-18" telescoping pipe and it is too short. The next type is 38"-68". I highly recommend against DSP. It seems very poor quality pipe to me.

 

[bholler]

Yes, we can thank the installers for that. Unfortunately Selkirk does not have any telescoping sections in the 18-29" range. I bought a 12-18" telescoping pipe and it is too short. The next type is 38"-68". I highly recommend against DSP. It seems very poor quality pipe to me.

I agree it is not very nice pipe at all. You could get a short straight section to use the short slip. But personally I would switch out for better pipe.

 

[webby3650]

Yes, we can thank the installers for that. Unfortunately Selkirk does not have any telescoping sections in the 18-29" range. I bought a 12-18" telescoping pipe and it is too short. The next type is 38"-68". I highly recommend against DSP. It seems very poor quality pipe to me.

A 12” piece with a 16” adjustable would be what you need, or an 18” with a 12” adjustable. It won’t be a kit, but it’s available.

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

That would be for diagnostic purposes and it would be monitored. I see no issue with that at all.

I've taken a look at most of the welds on the top of the stove and door. The only thing noticeable is that there is no weld at the stove collar connection at the top/external envelope of the stove, but there is a good weld on the inside at the end of the flue connector.

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

A 12” piece with a 16” adjustable would be what you need, or an 18” with a 12” adjustable. It won’t be a kit, but it’s available.

It fits nicely with a 2ft straight section so I could get a 6"+my 12-18" adjustable section. Again, I really don't want to have to cure another pipe though. Maybe for next season.

 

[webby3650]

It fits nicely with a 2ft straight section so I could get a 6"+my 12-18" adjustable section. Again, I really don't want to have to cure another pipe though. Maybe for next season.

No offense, but you’ve mentioned this curing paint thing a lot. Also you were put off by the installers painting the pipe during installation. This is usually not a big deal, almost every install requires some touch up painting. With a jacketed stove and double wall pipe the burn off is usually pretty minimal, are you particularly sensitive to smells? I always ask before I use spray paint, only one out of a few hundred installs that I can remember have said not to.

 

[bholler]

It fits nicely with a 2ft straight section so I could get a 6"+my 12-18" adjustable section. Again, I really don't want to have to cure another pipe though. Maybe for next season.

You don't have to cure ventis pipe.

 

[webby3650]

You don't have to cure ventis pipe.

Water based paint? Powder coat?
The new Kuma stoves also say that there’s no burn off smell.

 

[bholler]

Water based paint? Powder coat?
The new Kuma stoves also say that there’s no burn off smell.

They won't say but I think it must be water based. It definitely isn't powder coat. All I know is it is pretty durable and it doesn't stink when fired up even with single wall. The only problem is it is a pita to touch up.

 

[SpaceBus]

I still see that you are worried about snuffing out the flame. This is fine as long as the cat is in the active range. I'm also unsure of why it takes two weeks for your pipe components to break in.

 

[webby3650]

I still see that you are worried about snuffing out the flame. This is fine as long as the cat is in the active range. I'm also unsure of why it takes two weeks for your pipe components to break in.

It’s usually done curing within the first few days.

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

It hasn't been very cold out. Never really got the stove above 400°F with the new pipe. Remember too my draft has been over 0.15" W.C. for several weeks. Most of the smell went away after a few hotter burns but a small amount of paint was there for another week.
I don't want chemicals in our house. That's why I tried to get one of the cleanest burning stoves on the market. How it turned out I'm probably giving most of the family members cancer from all the smoke and paint and creo fumes.

@SpaceBus, it's not that I'm worried about losing the flame, I understand that's the idea. The problem is that low to no flame with a good load almost always guarantees I will get creo smell.

 

[webby3650]

It hasn't been very cold out. Never really got the stove above 400°F with the new pipe. Most of the smell went away after a few hotter burns but a small amount of paint was there for another week.

Let that thing rip! Maybe you have been prolonging the burn off? 400 isn’t much..

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

Let that thing rip! Maybe you have been prolonging the burn off? 400 isn’t much..

Yes, I got the stove to about 600°F several times with the initial install. Right now its at 250°F STT and 75°F inside. In the teens or low 20's it's at 400°F STT for 72°F.

 

[Ashful]

Remember too my draft has been over 0.15" W.C. for several weeks.

I don't think @aaronk25 responded when I called him out the other day, so I'll explain his theory. He had been having the smoke smell problem, so he started measuring draft, and found his draft was also much higher than spec. He theorized that the strong draft was causing localized positive pressure where the air wash hits the door, so he installed a key damper to control it.

I believe it resolved his issue, and that a few others have also followed his advice with success. He would know better than I. BK is unable to recommend you use a key damper, even if they believe you should, as the EPA will not allow them to recommend or discuss the use of devices with which the stove was not qualified.

I am sure there are at least three technical errors in what I've just said, bholler and aaronk25 will fix them, but the spirit of what I'm saying is correct.

 

[bholler]

I don't think @aaronk25 responded when I called him out the other day, so I'll explain his theory. He had been having the smoke smell problem, so he started measuring draft, and found his draft was also much higher than spec. He theorized that the strong draft was causing localized positive pressure where the air wash hits the door, so he installed a key damper to control it.

I believe it resolved his issue, and that a few others have also followed his advice with success. He would know better than I. BK is unable to recommend you use a key damper, even if they believe you should, as the EPA will not allow them to recommend or discuss the use of devices with which the stove was not qualified.

I am sure there are at least three technical errors in what I've just said, bholler and aaronk25 will fix them, but the spirit of what I'm saying is correct.

What you said is entirely possible. I honestly dont know but it is worth a try.

 

[bholler]

Yes, I got the stove to about 600°F several times with the initial install. Right now its at 250°F STT and 75°F inside. In the teens or low 20's it's at 400°F STT for 72°F.

Do you need the doublewall for clearances? If not i would try switching it out for some cheap singlewall and put a key damper in to bring your draft within spec to see if it helps. I doubt that is the issue but it would cost much to give it a try.