BK Ashford 30 Install

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

I know my draft was pretty bad with the original 90 and shorter chimney. The smell seemed better with the higher draft. It would suck to lose draft because I already have some smoke spillage with 0.08" draft. Do get that Ashful if you are running at 0.18" draft?

So other than the turbulence theory I've heard another theory about creosote soaking into the door gasket.

I'm running a larger E-W load with some gap to the glass at about 55% tstat setting. It worked completely fine like this over the weekend without a flame. That last creo smell I had was with logs within 1-2" of the glass. Don't know why I would be the only one with that issue though. Some of this years stash was cut at 17.5" which gets it a little close to the glass.

 

[bholler]

I know my draft was pretty bad with the original 90 and shorter chimney. The smell seemed better with the higher draft. It would suck to lose draft because I already have some smoke spillage with 0.08" draft. Do get that Ashful if you are running at 0.18" draft?

So other than the turbulence theory I've heard another theory about creosote soaking into the door gasket.

I'm running a larger E-W load with some gap to the glass at about 55% tstat setting. It worked completely fine like this over the weekend without a flame. That last creo smell I had was with logs within 1-2" of the glass. Don't know why I would be the only one with that issue though. Some of this years stash was cut at 17.5" which gets it a little close to the glass.

An inch from the glass shouldn't cause any issues

 

[Rickb]

I don't have the same stove but I went almost 2 years with too long of wood and almost all my loads where right at the glass. I had to angle pieces so they wouldn't hit the glass and I never had any kind of strong smell.

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

@bholler Assume you mean there shouldn't be any issues getting close to the glass? Even if there happens to be one 22% MC log vs 20%?

 

[bholler]

@bholler Assume you mean there shouldn't be any issues getting close to the glass? Even if there happens to be one 22% MC log vs 20%?

Yes sorry I will fix that. The moisture content has and the length are unrelated. But those moisture levels are on the high side and could be contributing.

And I didn't say to close to the glass couldnt cause issues but an inch isn't to close

 

[Ashful]

An inch from the glass shouldn't cause any issues

To clear things up (maybe), I was the one who started talking about issues with running an Ashford 30 with long wood that came too close to the glass. In my case, it was not related to odor from the stove, but to the clogging of the combustor. I noticed the way the airwash, thanks to my too-tall chimney, was sweeping ash right off the tops of the logs and into the combustor. You could literally see it happening at high burn rates, before I installed the key damper.

Coupling that to @aaronk25’s theory on airwash contributing to the smoke smell isn’t completely far-fetched, but I haven’t seen anyone make any any direct observations or experiments to create any connection between wood close to the glass and occurrence of smoke smell, other than some posts you made earlier in this thread where you were loading E-W and seeming to have some better success.

 

[AlbergSteve]

My OAK isn't working as I'd hoped, I still smell smoke in the house in the morning.

 

[MissMac]

My OAK isn't working as I'd hoped, I still smell smoke in the house in the morning.

How do I give this a thumbs down?

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

@MissMac same with you too right? Did you look at replacing the stove adapter? That and cleaning out my chimney and pipe I think reduced my smoke/creo smell quite significantly (maybe half or 2/3).

@AlbergSteve what are your draft readings? I would try opening a window and see if that makes any difference. If you have a manometer set up you could easily tell how your draft is affected. I should have done that months ago. For instance I can see that closing the bypass drops draft by about 0.02". I didn't notice any difference opening or closing windows. I don't think a continuous monitoring is necessary unless your draft is much lower. For me the draft boosts up to 0.08" within seconds of warming the chimney. It holds at least that high with any decent amount of coals available. Then it slowly drops to 0.02" at the cat goes inactive and all the coals burn out over several hours.

Also I ran a great E-W burn yesterday. I got it up to active temp and slowly dropped it to about 55% tstat. It ran from 6:30am to 6:30pm active, then was relight-able at 8:30pm. Rooms stayed about 75°F all day. I think that was the first time I went straight into the overnight burn. I was wondering if there was any smell, wife did not notice anything with window slightly cracked upstairs. I tried to repeat the process at night and noticed there was a small amount of creo/smoke when the burn slowed down. I left the window open though and you could barely notice later in the night and morning. It was a bit hotter when I turned it down and the burn was much slower.
No idea how I got a smokeless burn over the weekend without any smell...

Called BK (Manny) and emailed them some information. I'll note about you two also having the problem.

 

[AlbergSteve]

Draft testing is next. I do think it's important to measure draft over time because I want to see what it's doing over night or when I'm not standing there looking at it. Probably order a manometer this week.

 

[AlbergSteve]

How do I give this a thumbs down?

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

This worked great for me:

• Dwyer MK2
• Dwyer Portable Static Pr Tip, A-303, For 3/16" Plastic/Rubber Tubing
• SUPCO SSRT3165 Silicone Tubing, 5 Feet Length, Red, 3/16" Inside Diameter, 5/16" Outside Diameter

I just stuck the manometer to the wall with some 3M command strips. The draft is very consistent and behaves how you expect. If you go to bed with the draft at 0.1" and wake up at 0.08" its not going to have dipped to 0.01" at some point overnight. I stared at it for awhile
For me that smell starts 1-2hrs into the burn at the same point. Right when the airflow starts slowing down with a box full of hot charred logs. I can smell it start around the collar. Its really a mystery why it doesn't show up on the few occasions.

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

I timed the loading last night a little bit off and got the box too cold. I had a half smoldering log in there and while starting up I realized the smell we are getting is exactly that same smell. Like a hot smoldering [ash] log. So it seems like we are getting some of this smoldering log vapor/smoke leaking out of the stove if there is a small reduction in draft (0.12 to 0.08 for example) during medium/low burns.

 

[Ashful]

Data is a wonderful thing.

 

[Mnpellet]

@Ashful didnt you say you got a little smell when burning wood that was sub par moisture content?

 

[Ashful]

@Ashful didnt you say you got a little smell when burning wood that was sub par moisture content?

I don’t think I said that, but I have to admit my memory isn’t always very good. The only time I can recall getting a wood smell is:

1. When I let the stove on the tall chimney rip wide-open, and have the stove on the short chimney burning at a very low rate. My theory here it that I’m robbing too much make-up air from the house for the one stove, and this is affecting draft on the other.

2. When wind patterns drive the smoke from the top of one of my chimneys toward the other half of the house, and it gets drawn in with make-up air. I don’t have an OAK on either stove, and my house is shaped like a big “U”. I can stand in the room with one stove, and look across the patio at the other half of the house, with the other stove.

3. When I have bits of wood debris collecting on the ledge beneath the loading door, or (possibly) in the ash pan drawer. They just bake there, getting plenty hot, and it’s outside the enevelope of the stove.

 

[SpaceBus]

I don’t think I said that, but I have to admit my memory isn’t always very good. The only time I can recall getting a wood smell is:

1. When I let the stove on the tall chimney rip wide-open, and have the stove on the short chimney burning at a very low rate. My theory here it that I’m robbing too much make-up air from the house for the one stove, and this is affecting draft on the other.

2. When wind patterns drive the smoke from the top of one of my chimneys toward the other half of the house, and it gets drawn in with make-up air. I don’t have an OAK on either stove, and my house is shaped like a big “U”. I can stand in the room with one stove, and look across the patio at the other half of the house, with the other stove.

3. When I have bits of wood debris collecting on the ledge beneath the loading door, or (possibly) in the ash pan drawer. They just bake there, getting plenty hot, and it’s outside the enevelope of the stove.

I had the idea that the smell is coming back into the house with the make up air, but that proved to be unpopular. I still don't understand how any air could come out of the stove if it is under vacuum and the door is not open.

 

[Ashful]

I had the idea that the smell is coming back into the house with the make up air, but that proved to be unpopular. I still don't understand how any air could come out of the stove if it is under vacuum and the door is not open.

“Vacuum” implies a static situation, and the volume of air moving thru your stove per second being small compared to the firebox volume does put it close to a static situation, but we should be careful in oversimplifying what is really a dynamic situation. Whatever the CFM is, it is relatively focused coming off that airwash inlet at the top of the door, and I suppose it is possible that the pressure there is substantially higher than the static pressure of the firebox. In other words, the firebox might be at a net -0.05”WC, but locally right in front of the airwash it is possible we could have +0.01”WC, relative to room pressure. Giovanni Venturi tought us that, more than 200 years ago.

I’m just making these numbers up, to fit the narrative that’s been proposed, but the theory has merit.

 

[SpaceBus]

“Vacuum” implies a static situation, and the volume of air moving thru your stove per second being small compared to the firebox volume does put it close to a static situation, but we should be careful in oversimplifying what is really a dynamic situation. Whatever the CFM is, it is relatively focused coming off that airwash inlet at the top of the door, and I suppose it is possible that the pressure there is substantially higher than the static pressure of the firebox. In other words, the firebox might be at a net -0.05”WC, but locally right in front of the airwash it is possible we could have +0.01”WC, relative to room pressure.

I’m just making these numbers up, to fit the narrative that’s been proposed, but the theory has merit.

You can have vaccum without a static situation. Have you ever measured vaccum on an engine? Vaccum changes depending on throttle position and RPM. It changes on the stove as well. How is the smell coming out of the stove or any connection between flue sections? Stoves don't start stinking up the house when they crack, they become uncontrollable. OP's stove seems to die if the intake is closed, so no substantial air leaks.

Is the stove puffing? I just thought about how I could always tell my dying defiant was puffing because I could smell it. Perhaps the thermostat is closing down the intake, stalling the draft, and then puffing occurs.

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

There is also a huge plate right behind the cat. The air hitting that plate will have a large pressure increase and it happens to be right where the cat probe hole is located.

@SpaceBus I'm measuring the draft now. The pipe is almost always above 0.08" W.C. during the whole burn. It can be emitting this smell with 0.1"W.C. or higher. Just seems to depend on how much char smoke is in the box.

 

[SpaceBus]

There is also a huge plate right behind the cat. The air hitting that plate will have a large pressure increase and it happens to be right where the cat probe hole is located.

Hold a match or lighter over the hole. You will know if air comes out or not.

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

Interesting idea SpaceBus. I could also use my Dwyer gauge to probe around that area. It should have some vacuum.

 

[SpaceBus]

Has nobody suggested using incense to look for leaks yet?

 

[Mnpellet]

Maybe it was someone else or I remembered wrong, both possible. I thought last season you said when burning oak that wasn’t seasoned as long as your good stuff you got a creo smell.

I don’t think I said that, but I have to admit my memory isn’t always very good. The only time I can recall getting a wood smell is:

1. When I let the stove on the tall chimney rip wide-open, and have the stove on the short chimney burning at a very low rate. My theory here it that I’m robbing too much make-up air from the house for the one stove, and this is affecting draft on the other.

2. When wind patterns drive the smoke from the top of one of my chimneys toward the other half of the house, and it gets drawn in with make-up air. I don’t have an OAK on either stove, and my house is shaped like a big “U”. I can stand in the room with one stove, and look across the patio at the other half of the house, with the other stove.

3. When I have bits of wood debris collecting on the ledge beneath the loading door, or (possibly) in the ash pan drawer. They just bake there, getting plenty hot, and it’s outside the enevelope of the stove.

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

Alright, well BK is sending a Door Gasket Kit. They think that has fixed this problem before. Steve did you try that already? If I get it before the season ends I'll try that and I think that's the last thing I'm trying on this stove. Then I'm going to have to start looking for a replacement.