BK Ashford 30 Install

[Highbeam]

You want a decent bead about 1/4" thick, but not so much that there is a lot of ooze.

This. Be generous. I used more than a full auto parts store tube of copper RTV on my last BK door gasket job and had no ooze out. I believe the ashford door uses the same silly design of putting the nuts/bolts for the door glass under the door gasket so the RTV is doing more than just being an adhesive but is also filling in those necessary leaps of the gasket up and down from the nuts.

Don't make the mistake of pushing the gasket into the RTV with your fingers any more than just barely enough to keep it in place. Let the door frame evenly bed the gasket. Otherwise you will contort the gasket around those nuts and studs.

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

My main question is if my 2oz of Rutland Cement would be enough to nicely coat the whole gasket? I don't want to run out and if this is the key to solving my 100 hours of stove troubleshooting I want to make sure it is perfect! The other issue is that if I order another tube I may miss these last few cold evenings left in the spring.

Manny from BK said that Rutland Cement would be fine (maybe even preferred). My original gasket adhesive was very bare in some areas, doesn't look like much was applied or it disintegrated. The old gasket came off easily in one piece.

@Woody Stover You think the gasket is not subject to much heat?! The glass gets > 700°F I've seen. I thought that was one of the hottest places of the stove. The door frame would at least conduct as much heat as the stove top if not more. I could see the gasket insulating some but it won't stop the intense radiant heat coming off the hot wood a few inches away or the conduction through the stove body. Someone must have checked with their infrared thermometer...

 

[rdust]

My main question is if my 2oz of Rutland Cement would be enough to nicely coat the whole gasket? I don't want to run out and if this is the key to solving my 100 hours of stove debugging I want to make sure it is perfect! The other issue is that if I order another tube I may miss these last few cold evenings left in the spring.

Manny from BK said that Rutland Cement would be fine (maybe even preferred). My original gasket adhesive was very bare in some areas, doesn't look like much was applied or it disintegrated. The old gasket came off easily in one piece.

@Woody Stover You think the gasket is not subject to much heat?! The glass gets > 700°F I've seen. I thought that was one of the hottest places of the stove. The door frame would at least conduct as much heat as the stove top if not more. I could see the gasket insulating some but it won't stop the intense radiant heat coming off the hot wood a few inches away or the conduction through the stove body. Someone must have checked with their infrared thermometer...

I wouldn't use the cement, I would use the RTV they supplied. I've used RTV Black, Red and Cooper in the past on this stove and my previous stoves and never had an issue with any of them keeping the gasket stuck. The cement makes a mess and isn't wasn't used from the factory.

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

RTV black, red and Copper all appear to have higher temp ratings (500, 650 and 700°F). This Dowsil RTV is only rated to 350°F continuous. I'm not sure this is necessarily the exact same product they use for original assembly. This is just what is supplied in their "re-gasket" kit.

 

[Woody Stover]

You think the gasket is not subject to much heat?! The glass gets > 700°F I've seen. I thought that was one of the hottest places of the stove. The door frame would at least conduct as much heat as the stove top if not more. I could see the gasket insulating some but it won't stop the intense radiant heat coming off the hot wood a few inches away or the conduction through the stove body. Someone must have checked with their infrared thermometer...

That 700 may have been from shooting through the glass and into the coal bed. The top around the cat may go to 600+ but the front of the stove isn't nearly that hot. And it looks like there may be a convective air space between the steel box and the cast front, I'm not sure. In any case, yes, the door frame can't get much from conduction since it can't transmit through the gasket.

I wouldn't use the cement, I would use the RTV they supplied. I've used RTV Black, Red and Cooper in the past on this stove and my previous stoves and never had an issue with any of them keeping the gasket stuck.

And like Highbeam said, the silicone will fill the gaps between the glass retainer screws and the gasket. Not sure the runny Rutland can do that. Pretty sure they sent you the stuff you need...

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

Runny Rutland? Rutland Black is like thick toothpaste, not sure if you've used it. I ordered a caulking tube size to make sure I have enough. Looks like Amazon already dropped it on my doorstep. BK said that was good idea in this instance. Rutland Black is specifically designed for stove gaskets so I don't think it would be a improper application...

Also, the front door does have conduction through the hinges. I know that it gets hot in that area. If I leave wood chips in the little ledges under the door they will smolder. That must be over 400°F. I thought I saw someone on hearth.com showed some infrared measurements around the stove and the front door and they were close to stove top temps?

 

[begreen]

Rutland makes a lot of products. For a stove gasket I would use their black silicone. Is this what you have?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000H5Y6CQ/?tag=hearthamazon-20

 

[Woody Stover]

Runny Rutland? Rutland Black is like toothpaste, not sure if you've used it...I thought I saw someone on hearth.com showed some infrared measurements around the stove and the front door and they were close to stove top temps?

Rutland makes a lot of products. For a stove gasket I would use their black silicone. Is this what you have?

This is the stuff I'm talking about, but silicone would be the ticket.

 

[Woody Stover]

I shot the door frame on the Buck 91 but can't remember what it was. It was under 400 though. That's not to say that your door frame wouldn't get hotter...

 

[begreen]

This is the stuff I'm talking about, but silicone would be the ticket.
View attachment 243407

After using silicone I really prefer that. So do many stove mfgs these days.

 

[Woody Stover]

After using silicone I really prefer that. So do many stove mfgs these days.

Even with the air open, burning down coals, the radiation blasting the cast iron side-load door of the Keystone can't get it to 500.

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

OK thanks for checking Woody. One of the 500°F Silicones would probably be fine, I'm just a little skeptical of the 350°F Dowsil they gave me. I bought Rutland Black Stove & Gasket Cement, not the Silicone. It has specific instructions for applying it to a stove door gasket. If you guys really think I need the Silicone I can order one instead, but I'd prefer to use this Hi-Temp Cement that I am positive can withstand the temperatures.

This is the one: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000V4LTXC/?tag=hearthamazon-20

Also, IR Thermometers do not "see through" glass. So that is the actual surface temp of the glass. I would expect they get above 700°F. I would assume the stove is designed that way to radiate a lot of heat through the glass with shielded sides to keep the clearances under control.

https://www.thermoworks.com/infrared_thermometry101_limitations_of_infrared

• Do not "see through" glass, liquids or other transparent surfaces - even though visible light (like a laser) passes through them (i.e. if you point an IR gun at a window, you'll be measuring the temperature of the window pane, not the outside temp)

 

[begreen]

Black, red (not blue) or copper RTV will stand the temps. What I like about silicone is its ability to bond well and stay pliant enough to maintain that bond over the many heating and cooling cycles. The Rutland adhesive has not bonded that well over time for me sometimes. I also think that silicone will do a better job sealing around those pesky glass retaining nuts that Highbeam mentioned.

 

[rdust]

Rutland Black is specifically designed for stove gaskets so I don't think it would be a improper application...

My issue with the Rutland is it's a cement, it doesn't remain flexible like the RTV silicone gasket. To me this will limit the gaskets ability to remain "pliable". If the BK thought a gasket cement was better I assume they'd be using it from the factory.

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

Or maybe if they use cement or higher temp silicone they won't have as many users with smelly Ashfords. There is obviously a flaw somewhere in their build process or design that is allowing creosote odor to leak out on a percentage of their new stoves. I've spoken to quite a few people on here with the same problem.

Really my biggest goal is to seal up this gasket and run it to see if that seals away this odor, otherwise I'm going to have to get a new stove. If I need a new gasket at the end of next year with no other problems I'll be plenty happy to replace the gasket one more time with high temp RTV. I'm not too concerned a heavy load of cement is not going to seal around the bolts when properly prepped and installed.

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

I'm about to light it sometime this week with the new 1" gasket. I checked with BK and do not need shims on mine for some reason. A good sign though is that it was smelling a bit when the chimney was backdrafting when the stove was off. It was almost every day. Figured it was just some leakage out the stove pipe. Now with the new gasket it does not smell at all? I'm wondering if the air was blowing nasty gasket smell through the gasket because of a poor seal?

We'll see. I don't want to get my hopes up too much.

 

[mar13]

A good sign though is that it was smelling a bit when the chimney was backdrafting when the stove was off. It was almost every day.

Hopefully you've got it solved. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you. As an amateur, however, I can't help to wonder if a daily back draft when the stove is off suggests that something about your home is handicapping your stove's draft?

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

I can't imagine there is a problem with draft if I'm running at 0.08-0.12"WC while it's burning.

It is in the 50s and I relit the stove. Certainly the cement is making some smell and it's difficult to tell if the creo smell is gone completely. That said, I don't smell any creo so far. I ran it with flames out for about 45min, tstat set at 75%. Problem is that when the flames restarted up they started some burst cycles which puffed smoke out the pipes. Forgot about that since I always run it with a flame.
I left the window cracked so I don't imagine its a make-up air issue.

I'll run it a few more times to see if it's making the dreaded creo smell. Not sure what to think about the blasting.

 

[Hogwildz]

I just resecured my gasket after discovering the factory cement was failing. Used Silicone window & door, works like a champ.

 

[begreen]

Based on the description if there are puffbacks with the air 75% open then the draft doesn't seem sufficient. Draft at 50° is going to be weaker than at 35°.

 

[SpaceBus]

I can't imagine there is a problem with draft if I'm running at 0.08-0.12"WC while it's burning.

It is in the 50s and I relit the stove. Certainly the cement is making some smell and it's difficult to tell if the creo smell is gone completely. That said, I don't smell any creo so far. I ran it with flames out for about 45min, tstat set at 75%. Problem is that when the flames restarted up they started some burst cycles which puffed smoke out the pipes. Forgot about that since I always run it with a flame.
I left the window cracked so I don't imagine its a make-up air issue.

I'll run it a few more times to see if it's making the dreaded creo smell. Not sure what to think about the blasting.

Did you measure the draft before you started?

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

Based on the description if there are puffbacks with the air 75% open then the draft doesn't seem sufficient. Draft at 50° is going to be weaker than at 35°.

I'm not sure if this is considered "stove backpuffing". It has a nice flow through it but when the gas starts relighting after flameless mode it starts exploding the whole chamber. Naturally some of that smoke puffs out the stove pipe. I'm getting as high as 0.15" WC draft in the 30's so if I go any higher I'll be triple the designed spec. It was really difficult keeping the stove below 350°F STT with any size-able load due to the high draft. Can't imagine how bad this problem would be with a system running at 0.06"WC specified in the manual.

Given this was in the upper 50's out. I'm not going to rerun it until it's in the 40's for the next few burns.

@SpaceBus I can hook up the manometer again. I measured it over several weeks and it was running maybe 0.05" WC at the worst conditions and probably peaked at 0.15" or 0.16" WC on HIGH.

 

[begreen]

That chuffing is a mild form of backpuffing.

 

[Highbeam]

Warm ambient temperatures are not as big a deal as you may think. We routinely burn in the 60s with a 12' chimney. Works the same way as when it's 10 degrees. It's way more of a problem when the clothes dryer is running.

Stop measuring stove top temperatures. The cat underneath the stove top can be 1500 degrees whether the stove is on high or on low.

 

[lsucet]

I have been seeing during the days temperatures on low 80s with nights of high 30s to low 40s. On a 19' chimney that is the one I use during shoulder seasons I have no problems with the dial set to the low setting that works for me. Never stall on me.