new Vapor Fire 100 with very poor heat

[brenndatomu]

its only a 1/8 in gap...

Looking at the pic again...where the stove pipe goes into the crock, it looks like it is an inch or more gap...does it get smaller back inside there somewhere?

 

[gary38532]

Would be OK for temporary, but only good to something like 550*, so not a good permanent solution...plus gonna be a bugger to get apart later!

Huh? Its gonna touch the clay the whole way up, so whats another few inches? For testing purposes (read: tonight) I'd just plug the leak...or if you have some of that "high temp" aluminum duct tape, could maybe wrap some of that around there until you get your liner kit in...would look a lil redneck, but its more about results right now.
Speaking of the liner kit...might want to check before you order to make sure the tee itself will fit down the flue...been a while since I did mine, I can't remember if there was a clamp on the tee that stuck out beyond the OD of the liner itself...

he ment with the liner kit installed it wont touch no clay. I'm going to call Rockford chimney tomorrow and see what they suggest

 

[brenndatomu]

The other thing I meant to ask, and I'm sure @lampmfg has probably already covered this...but did you open the heat exchanger cleanout door and check that the baffle(s) are not out of place? I moved one VF where the hood ended up in the throat coming out of the firebox...

 

[KC Matt]

Awesome....

I have an un-insulated 6” SS liner... zero draft issues. Before installing the liner, I could not get the stack to draft properly.

Same here. Sure, an insulated liner might be preferable but the difference in draft and performance is probably less than some would think. I'm no physicist but the percentage of heat retained in an uninsulated liner compared to a stone chimney unlined... it's not even worth comparing. Masonry weighs around 4k lbs per cubic yard and theres 2 or 3 yards in that chimney. In order to draw, you're going to have to heat 8-12k lbs of ice cold stone before air starts to draw. Compare that to what little heat is lost on an uninsulated liner with air flowing at a high rate of speed. It seems obvious what the problem is with this install.

This guy needs a liner.

 

[brenndatomu]

Same here. Sure, an insulated liner might be preferable but the difference in draft and performance is probably less than some would think. I'm no physicist but the percentage of heat retained in an uninsulated liner compared to a stone chimney unlined... it's not even worth comparing. Masonry weighs around 4k lbs per cubic yard and theres 2 or 3 yards in that chimney. In order to draw, you're going to have to heat 8-12k lbs of ice cold stone before air starts to draw. Compare that to what little heat is lost on an uninsulated liner with air flowing at a high rate of speed. It seems obvious what the problem is with this install.

This guy needs a liner.

I agree...a SS liner solves a lot of problems here...and on many/most problem chimneys.
But the whole 8k lb. chimney doesn't get heated...just the clay liner. There is an air gap (or should be) between the liner and the main body of the block, so its really just the weight of the clay you are dealing with...the block will obviously absorb some heat from the warm (hot) liner over time, but that doesn't have to happen before you can get a good draft. It does take some pretty good BTUs going up the chimney to keep a masonry liner warm though.
I gotta say, at 6-7/8" ID, this one of the smaller masonry chimney liners I've heard of...must be because it is newer.

 

[gary38532]

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I think i might rent this tool to brake it out and insulate it as much as possible. Its only a little chimney I cant see it taken that long.

 

[gary38532]

The other thing I meant to ask, and I'm sure @lampmfg has probably already covered this...but did you open the heat exchanger cleanout door and check that the baffle(s) are not out of place? I moved one VF where the hood ended up in the throat coming out of the firebox...

I removed them both of them

 

[maple1]

I removed them both of them

Not sure - are you saying you removed baffles from the furnace?

 

[brenndatomu]

Not sure - are you saying you removed baffles from the furnace?

Its a completely different setup from what most/many modern stoves typically have...and Lamppa will tell you to take the baffles out with low draft chimneys...

 

[gary38532]

Its a completely different setup from what most/many modern stoves typically have...and Lamppa will tell you to take the baffles out with low draft chimneys...

Yes they told me to take them out and I did

 

[maple1]

Yes they told me to take them out and I did

Ah, OK.

 

[gary38532]

Wanted to let everyone know, I got the Dwyer hooked up tonight. I checked before the chimney damper and after. Both spots are reading about .02 and that's with tin foil over the chimney damper so its confirmed what everyone all ready knew. I hope the chimney liner +3 more feet on top of what I got now will give me at least .10 I know I don't need that much but I don't want to just make the min either. I'm still waiting on the chimney guys. They told me they are coming Thursday now. If they don't show up again then I'm just going to do it myself. Thank you for every ones help!

 

[laynes69]

Wanted to let everyone know, I got the Dwyer hooked up tonight. I checked before the chimney damper and after. Both spots are reading about .02 and that's with tin foil over the chimney damper so its confirmed what everyone all ready knew. I hope the chimney liner +3 more feet on top of what I got now will give me at least .10 I know I don't need that much but I don't want to just make the min either. I'm still waiting on the chimney guys. They told me they are coming Thursday now. If they don't show up again then I'm just going to do it myself. Thank you for every ones help!

Is that with the furnace running, or with the chimney hot? That's definitely a very low draft. That will cause all sorts of problems. I would also double check the clean out on the base of the chimney and make sure it's on and sealed. A liner will solve alot of problems.

 

[gary38532]

Is that with the furnace running, or with the chimney hot? That's definitely a very low draft. That will cause all sorts of problems. I would also double check the clean out on the base of the chimney and make sure it's on and sealed. A liner will solve alot of problems.

thats with a big fire

 

[JRHAWK9]

Wanted to let everyone know, I got the Dwyer hooked up tonight. I checked before the chimney damper and after. Both spots are reading about .02 and that's with tin foil over the chimney damper so its confirmed what everyone all ready knew.

yeah, that's not going to cut it! Kinda surprised you weren't getting any puff backs once in awhile.

 

[gary38532]

yeah, that's not going to cut it! Kinda surprised you weren't getting any puff backs once in awhile.

You do when your loading it and pulling coals forward

 

[brenndatomu]

You do when your loading it and pulling coals forward

99% of the time I get no smoke coming out the door, even if the load catches before I'm done loading...sometimes I do get a bit if I open the door too fast before things are really burning well...

 

[maple1]

Wanted to let everyone know, I got the Dwyer hooked up tonight. I checked before the chimney damper and after. Both spots are reading about .02 and that's with tin foil over the chimney damper so its confirmed what everyone all ready knew. I hope the chimney liner +3 more feet on top of what I got now will give me at least .10 I know I don't need that much but I don't want to just make the min either. I'm still waiting on the chimney guys. They told me they are coming Thursday now. If they don't show up again then I'm just going to do it myself. Thank you for every ones help!

Maybe you already know this, but you hook the manometer between the damper & the furnace, for 'proper' readings. For going forward with trying to measure how your draft changes with changes you make.

 

[NoobTube]

Wanted to let everyone know, I got the Dwyer hooked up tonight. I checked before the chimney damper and after. Both spots are reading about .02 and that's with tin foil over the chimney damper so its confirmed what everyone all ready knew. I hope the chimney liner +3 more feet on top of what I got now will give me at least .10 I know I don't need that much but I don't want to just make the min either. I'm still waiting on the chimney guys. They told me they are coming Thursday now. If they don't show up again then I'm just going to do it myself. Thank you for every ones help!

Glad you were able to verify the draft issue. Sorry that it you had to go through this just to get there. Also... Shame on your chimney guys for designing something like that without taking draft into account. I would be willing to bet extending that chimney 5+ feet will get you the draft you need. Whether or not adding and insulated liner to that equation is required, is not for me to surmise, but I'm sure there are some good chimney guys on this board that can recommend next steps.

 

[JRHAWK9]

You do when your loading it and pulling coals forward

I was actually referring to the wood off-gassing and abruptly igniting leading to a mini explosion inside the firebox which pushes smoke out the cracks in the stove pipes and through the secondary intake holes.

Although what you are describing will also happen with low draft.

 

[brenndatomu]

Also... Shame on your chimney guys for designing something like that without taking draft into account

That chimney would work on old school fireboxes...trouble is that a lot of the masons that build chimneys are still old school too...although I'm not sure that any masonry chimney is the best choice with something as efficient as the Vaporfire...just not enough waste heat there to make it work...

 

[maple1]

Would a draft inducer be a solution?

Would be kind of a band aid, but with winter looming & all that....

 

[gary38532]

That chimney would work on old school fireboxes...trouble is that a lot of the masons that build chimneys are still old school too...although I'm not sure that any masonry chimney is the best choice with something as efficient as the Vaporfire...just not enough waste heat there to make it work...

Very true. my old Clayton worked for years with the same chimney

 

[gary38532]

Would a draft inducer be a solution?

Would be kind of a band aid, but with winter looming & all that....

Maybe idk Im thinking it will be good once its got a liner

 

[brenndatomu]

Would a draft inducer be a solution?

Would be kind of a band aid, but with winter looming & all that....

IIRC those are kinda pricey...IMO might as well put that money toward the permanent solution...and a liner is just a Saturday afternoon job, or should be...