Everything Drolet Tundra - Heatmax...

[JRHAWK9]

Not sure I like the idea of the damper opening and closing when I'm not around.

Different strokes for different folks I guess. I KNOW I wouldn't like a smoldering fire from too little air or raging fire from too much air. I'll live with having the fire automatically and optimally controlled for me based on hard data....but that's just me.

 

[brenndatomu]

@brenndatomu, since you have seen the Caddy up close. Do you think the temp controller would work on a Caddy too ?

Scott

Absolutely. It makes a really sweet setup. The damper motor on the Caddy is the same its just in the front instead of the back like Tundra/Heatmax. The wiring would be very similar too.
I am not sure yet at this point what I am doing long term as far as keeping the Yukon, keeping the Tundra, buying a Kuuma...just dunno yet, but if I ever go back to using the Yukon full time it is getting a temp controller and then a speed controller on the circ blower too. I think that would very likely solve many/most of the issues I had with it after I modded the firebox

 

[crewchief264]

Im curious how that insulation is holding up on the top of that plenum. One thing I believe I noticed about the Caddy stoves that have insulted walls is Im pretty sure only the walls were insulated not the top. At time that top gets so hot I cannot touch it but with the updated furnace with new fan switch that is rare and never last very long unless Im cranking out a load of hickory or locust at top burn. Either way I would think the insulation blanket and celophane would need to withstand temps nearing 500-800 deg as it gets pretty damn hot right above the flu. Specially if you have the old models with the older fan switches and high limit switches. I would like to see that insulation you have on the top around the end of December into January to see how its holding up. Please update if you can an upload pics. Im interested in this process but highly concerned about two things.. num on the integrity of the insulation both actually working at high temps and not melting, secondly if there is any real advantage to this for 4 hours of work. You see my Tundra rarely gets hot on the outside as it is, specially the walls. The fan kicks on so soon it take the heat out before the metal gets a chance to heat up and likely the chamber as well.. the air is simply moved out to quick for insulation to help possibly. I am thinking the effects would be minimal. My fan kicks on in like 5-10 minutes as it is and stays on pretty much until the last few hours of a burn. I don't think insulation would help much but Im following what your doing cause I am interested in the results. Often I find what I think and what actually is can be two different things. lol.

EDIT:

The Insulation is Aluminum foil/stitched and rated to 2000 degrees. Its thermo tec. Basically the stuff you would use to insulate an engine bay, or transmission tunnel from hot exhaust etc....


Ok wanted to keep you guys in the loop... I got some feedback about the clearance to the side wall and I have taken out the 2x4, cut the cedar back and installed heavy 1/4 inch T6 Alum sheet I had laying around. I now have over 11 inches of clearance to combustibles... My controller is still in the same location. We had a super windy day the other day.... gusts up to 40 and sustained winds up to 20mph... Anyhow my manometer was pulling almost .1 inch with the manual damper all the way open and the fire going.. I adjusted it down to obtain and sustain a steady .06-08. that said I have installed my BD and have it set right at .06. The BD is working great and I should've installed it a long time ago!

I have yet to see flue temps rise over 465 even with those high winds. My controller is set at 475. My low set point I change between 140-160 depending on firebox temp.... I have a swing value of 120 for the temp alarm. The High alarm is set at 100. I am running the timer and a thermostat. I have not yet used the thermostat though. My thermo couple is about 14 inches from the firebox.

Ok my furnace runs cool compared to my hot blast.. Although I never took duct temp measurements etc with it. but the tundra heats my house faster and longer already on less wood. I have my fan set at factory speed 2. And have an adjustable snap disc installed. To comment on the 200 degree snap disc being covered by insulation. My theory was this, the blanket would keep the heat where it belongs and may cause the snap disc to go off, addressing the safety side of things, is that not what the flue thermo couple, and omni controller are there for. I guess I really don't care all that much about the drolet installed over temp snap disc.

Ok heres my readings as the furnace heats up on a cold start with about 300-350 face temp, before the fans kick on the sides and top of the firebox are warm about 90-95 degrees as soon as the fans kick on which sometimes is below the 300-350 mark the sides and top instantly cool down to below 80 degrees and they stay there. My duct temps upstairs range from 115 damper open and can get up to 125-130. Last night we got down to about 26 degrees. I put a load in at 9pm and set my timer to 25 minutes and walked away. The house was 72 when we went to bed. I got up at 6:30 and the house was 70 and the furnace fans were off but I had coals.... I am happy with the results so far. My wood is not split small either. my splits are pretty big.

I think the insulation is working. Although the basement is still almost 90... namely from the front face being anywhere from 275-475 degrees..... I don't think insulating the front would be wise... I think if the sheet metal came around everything but the loading door and the HE cleanout ad you could get the air circulating around the from too it would make a big difference...... But that would take some serious re design of the exterior she metal..... Out side of what I am planning......

I currently have my damper set to completely close so the only secondary air getting in is through that little hole.. I am think about adjusting the damper to maybe stay about 1/32-1/16" of an inch open.. I will use some shim stock for that.

I think that covers it and thanks for the comments from all. Things can always be done better and improved on....

 

[JRHAWK9]

Although the basement is still almost 90... namely from the front face being anywhere from 275-475 degrees.....

Just for comparison, there are some isolated spots on the face of my Kuuma which can get to 800°+...at least according to my infrared. It's mainly the top center bolt head used to bolt the door frame to the body which seems to be the hottest.

With basement temps that high, I would try to take some of that warm air and introduce it into your cold air in order to increase your cold air temps, which will then increase your supply temps. I'm doing just that by taking in the basement air at the ceiling and also sucking in radiant air off the face of the furnace. Doing this gives me cold air temps ranging from 80°-90°. My cold air supply temps consistently stay 10-15 degrees warmer than the house/basement temps at any given point, depending on where in the burn cycle it is. All I am doing is increasing the efficiency of delivered heat by taking some of the radiant heat, reheating it and sending it out.

 

[crewchief264]

Just for comparison, there are some isolated spots on the face of my Kuuma which can get to 800°+...at least according to my infrared. It's mainly the top center bolt head used to bolt the door frame to the body which seems to be the hottest.

With basement temps that high, I would try to take some of that warm air and introduce it into your cold air in order to increase your cold air temps, which will then increase your supply temps. I'm doing just that by taking in the basement air at the ceiling and also sucking in radiant air off the face of the furnace. Doing this gives me cold air temps ranging from 80°-90°. My cold air supply temps consistently stay 10-15 degrees warmer than the house/basement temps at any given point, depending on where in the burn cycle it is. All I am doing is increasing the efficiency of delivered heat by taking some of the radiant heat, reheating it and sending it out.

I have one cold air return in the basement currently.. The room I have the furnace is basically closed off from the rest of the basement.. I may crack the door to let some of the heat out. I also put a vent in the chase where the chimney runs through the house and it lets a good amount of heat up stairs.... I may put a second cold air return in though I think that would help a lot...

 

[DoubleB]

To comment on the 200 degree snap disc being covered by insulation. My theory was this, the blanket would keep the heat where it belongs and may cause the snap disc to go off, addressing the safety side of things, is that not what the flue thermo couple, and omni controller are there for. I guess I really don't care all that much about the drolet installed over temp snap disc.

Ok heres my readings as the furnace heats up on a cold start with about 300-350 face temp, before the fans kick on

Crewchief,
Your post sounds like you've thought things through pretty well and are doing a good job overall. You might still reconsider your top insulation, though. First, it sounds like it's covered your fan snap disc, which is your first line of defense for safety to remove heat. If your front temps get up to 300-350 before the fan kicks on, I think mine comes on much sooner (like 150F on the front face). You can probably heat your house even better if you get the fan running at the right plenum temperatures.

Second, I agree your temp controller should prevent over temps, but I wouldn't rely on it. There's no harm in retaining the functionality of the original snap disc. It can't hurt, it can only help, and you don't lose any heat by keeping it enabled. Also, what happens when you sell the house, or the furnace, or remove your temp controller, or who knows what in the future and some unsuspecting person, perhaps yourself, no longer has some form of overtemp protection.

In my opinion, when dealing with fire I try to design for the unexpected, not only the expected.

 

[TDD11]

In engineering safety systems, we emphasize redundant safety limits as much as possible. I'd keep the factory overtemp switch.

 

[STIHLY DAN]

I have one cold air return in the basement currently.. The room I have the furnace is basically closed off from the rest of the basement.. I may crack the door to let some of the heat out. I also put a vent in the chase where the chimney runs through the house and it lets a good amount of heat up stairs.... I may put a second cold air return in though I think that would help a lot...

What are you doing for makeup air for the Bd, or combustion air if its in its own sealed rm?

 

[crewchief264]

What are you doing for makeup air for the Bd, or combustion air if its in its own sealed rm?

I apologize....The room isn't sealed... I just typically keep the door pulled shut. I just have a home built sliding barn door that slides shut...Its far from sealed.. the room also has a cold air return..... The chimney is also in this room and runs through a chase that is vented into the upper level to steal heat off the chimney and that room. The BD is operating great... also my basement is also a 4 car garage... Its far from completely sealed. Although I do have my garage doors adjusted nice and tight.

 

[Teglovinvtec]

you guys i have my thermostat hooked up honeywell i forget what model digital but its always 8-10 degrees off. compared to my carrier WiFi thermostat right next to it on inside temp or just stays there. I've tried 2 new others and same issue. i have the red and white wired to R and W is there something im missing. works and opens damper door when calling for heat or not and closes. fan on ON Setting and thermostat on HEAT weird! i dono thinking about going to the old round style. yesterday inside temp said 81 and carrier said 67 it was deff closer to 67 then 81.

 

[brenndatomu]

Boy that is strange...sounds like you are wired right...whats the tstat read before wired up? In other words just drop a battery in it and have it sitting there...sure sounds like a bad one, but hard to believe you got 3 bad ones!

 

[Teglovinvtec]

Unwired sitting there within a degree of the carrier or the same

 

[Teglovinvtec]

Replaced battery with another new one from different box still the same I doubt I had 3 bad ones. I even put a thermometer in room to see if carrier was off and it's dead on

 

[brenndatomu]

Hmm, maybe I'm wrong about the wiring being correct...hey @STIHLY DAN , what say you?

 

[DoubleB]

Yea that's weird. What if you take the cover off and use a fan to blow room air over the temp sensor part? If the temp readout lowers, then it's probably actually measuring temp properly and there's probably internal heat build-up (which might be caused by a few freakish things). Unlikely, but a simple trouble-shooting step.

 

[crewchief264]

you guys i have my thermostat hooked up honeywell i forget what model digital but its always 8-10 degrees off. compared to my carrier WiFi thermostat right next to it on inside temp or just stays there. I've tried 2 new others and same issue. i have the red and white wired to R and W is there something im missing. works and opens damper door when calling for heat or not and closes. fan on ON Setting and thermostat on HEAT weird! i dono thinking about going to the old round style. yesterday inside temp said 81 and carrier said 67 it was deff closer to 67 then 81.

Hey I have an older Honeywell model 8000 I believe... this summer the thermostat was reading off about 4 degrees... you can go into advanced settings and change the offset.... but honestly I'm pretty sure mine is just going bad. It is 9 years old..... just some food for thought. The good old days of mercury are long gone.... lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Teglovinvtec]

I'll give it a try but I'm pretty sure this Honeywell doesn't have that advanced setting it's pretty basic heat only non programmable

 

[STIHLY DAN]

Well that is not possible to read 2 different readings with wired and battery together.. For if its under voltage the batteries take over. sounds like there is an issue in your low voltage setup. Try running off battery alone, do not put a wire on C. If this works its an under voltage issue.

 

[Digger79]

hmmm. well I was thinking in hindsight to my earlier comment about preventing cracking.. So after having owned two of these units one cracking in multiple areas and getting a updated replacement model and operating/tinkering with the new one I have come to this conclusion. There are 2 separate cracking issues with the first models both cause by poor placement of the snap switches as well their ranges. partially by welding HE door but more the snap switches. Stove 1 cracked not only around the fire box but also around the heat exchanger door. SBI did put some relief room in the HE door however they also set the high limit switch for the damper door at a lower temp as well the fan switch at a lower temp. You can sit on the new model while the flu is 600 deg! lol. So here's my point. upon finally being annoyed with the fan basically running all the time I rem Brenndatomu saying something about the fan not affecting flu temps all the much.. He's right. It does affect the Heat Exchanger temp drastically which largely prevent cracks at the HE door.. So far as the first models goes it seems not only does the flu need kept under 800 deg but also the HE compartment needs kept much cooler as well. Fan needs to come on much sooner and stay on till furnace is cold.

 

[Digger79]

EDIT:

The Insulation is Aluminum foil/stitched and rated to 2000 degrees. Its thermo tec. Basically the stuff you would use to insulate an engine bay, or transmission tunnel from hot exhaust etc....


Ok wanted to keep you guys in the loop... I got some feedback about the clearance to the side wall and I have taken out the 2x4, cut the cedar back and installed heavy 1/4 inch T6 Alum sheet I had laying around. I now have over 11 inches of clearance to combustibles... My controller is still in the same location. We had a super windy day the other day.... gusts up to 40 and sustained winds up to 20mph... Anyhow my manometer was pulling almost .1 inch with the manual damper all the way open and the fire going.. I adjusted it down to obtain and sustain a steady .06-08. that said I have installed my BD and have it set right at .06. The BD is working great and I should've installed it a long time ago!

I have yet to see flue temps rise over 465 even with those high winds. My controller is set at 475. My low set point I change between 140-160 depending on firebox temp.... I have a swing value of 120 for the temp alarm. The High alarm is set at 100. I am running the timer and a thermostat. I have not yet used the thermostat though. My thermo couple is about 14 inches from the firebox.

Ok my furnace runs cool compared to my hot blast.. Although I never took duct temp measurements etc with it. but the tundra heats my house faster and longer already on less wood. I have my fan set at factory speed 2. And have an adjustable snap disc installed. To comment on the 200 degree snap disc being covered by insulation. My theory was this, the blanket would keep the heat where it belongs and may cause the snap disc to go off, addressing the safety side of things, is that not what the flue thermo couple, and omni controller are there for. I guess I really don't care all that much about the drolet installed over temp snap disc.

Ok heres my readings as the furnace heats up on a cold start with about 300-350 face temp, before the fans kick on the sides and top of the firebox are warm about 90-95 degrees as soon as the fans kick on which sometimes is below the 300-350 mark the sides and top instantly cool down to below 80 degrees and they stay there. My duct temps upstairs range from 115 damper open and can get up to 125-130. Last night we got down to about 26 degrees. I put a load in at 9pm and set my timer to 25 minutes and walked away. The house was 72 when we went to bed. I got up at 6:30 and the house was 70 and the furnace fans were off but I had coals.... I am happy with the results so far. My wood is not split small either. my splits are pretty big.

I think the insulation is working. Although the basement is still almost 90... namely from the front face being anywhere from 275-475 degrees..... I don't think insulating the front would be wise... I think if the sheet metal came around everything but the loading door and the HE cleanout ad you could get the air circulating around the from too it would make a big difference...... But that would take some serious re design of the exterior she metal..... Out side of what I am planning......

I currently have my damper set to completely close so the only secondary air getting in is through that little hole.. I am think about adjusting the damper to maybe stay about 1/32-1/16" of an inch open.. I will use some shim stock for that.

I think that covers it and thanks for the comments from all. Things can always be done better and improved on....

awesome report thanks

 

[Digger79]

Just for comparison, there are some isolated spots on the face of my Kuuma which can get to 800°+...at least according to my infrared. It's mainly the top center bolt head used to bolt the door frame to the body which seems to be the hottest.

With basement temps that high, I would try to take some of that warm air and introduce it into your cold air in order to increase your cold air temps, which will then increase your supply temps. I'm doing just that by taking in the basement air at the ceiling and also sucking in radiant air off the face of the furnace. Doing this gives me cold air temps ranging from 80°-90°. My cold air supply temps consistently stay 10-15 degrees warmer than the house/basement temps at any given point, depending on where in the burn cycle it is. All I am doing is increasing the efficiency of delivered heat by taking some of the radiant heat, reheating it and sending it out.

What a great idea. You see my Tundra is located in a stand alone garage and piped in to my crawl space about 5 ft away with the cold air return running out of my kitchen window. lol. Yeah kitchen sucks but I live in a rental so all my setup is literally temporary and quick to remove. long story sounds silly but my system is solid. Anyhow. I lose a ton of heat into the garage which at times is 80-90 deg in dead of winter. Def not needed.. So with this though putting a cold air return in the return line running above the furnace through the garage would def reclaim some of that heat being thrown out into the garage and push it into the house as well. My only concern is smoke odor. I realize most people have these in their basements however mine is in a separate garage. Initially I put a filter on the furnace and had no cold air return. Was sucking air from in the garage only. Well it stunk up the house as the air being sucked in right behind the furnace also sucked in some smoke odor that leaks out in the garage. I think putting an register in the cold air return line will probably cause the same issue however I am hoping I have me smoke leakage down to a minimum by now so it will be minimal or non existent. When I first put the Tundra in I had no idea what I was doing and had the setup all wrong.. no insulated flu, wet wood ect. Now that I've "mastered" lol the Tundra art of burning hopefully adding a register in the cold air line above the stove will give me some more heat with no smoke odor. I am heating very well with the current setup even with stove being outside the home. If I was able to put this thing inside I would be able to run it until janurary! lol

 

[Digger79]

Just when I think I got the Tundra dialed in an at optimal operation some one comes along and makes me want to put in a second cold air return intake. lol. One other thing I feel needs change is the fan switch. Its nice it comes on early and shuts off late as it pushes basically any heat even mild into the home. However I feel it would be nicer, specially if I put in a second cold air return intake above the stove, to let the plenum get just a little warmer before the fan kicks on. Not much but at least warm air not cold. Currently newer model fan switches will blow air that feels cold at first and end of cycles. I mean its prob 70 deg air or so I haven't measured duct temps in a while but just a little more delay in the fan would seem helpful specially with adding a second return intake above stove.

 

[Digger79]

Crewchief,
Your post sounds like you've thought things through pretty well and are doing a good job overall. You might still reconsider your top insulation, though. First, it sounds like it's covered your fan snap disc, which is your first line of defense for safety to remove heat. If your front temps get up to 300-350 before the fan kicks on, I think mine comes on much sooner (like 150F on the front face). You can probably heat your house even better if you get the fan running at the right plenum temperatures.

Second, I agree your temp controller should prevent over temps, but I wouldn't rely on it. There's no harm in retaining the functionality of the original snap disc. It can't hurt, it can only help, and you don't lose any heat by keeping it enabled. Also, what happens when you sell the house, or the furnace, or remove your temp controller, or who knows what in the future and some unsuspecting person, perhaps yourself, no longer has some form of overtemp protection.

In my opinion, when dealing with fire I try to design for the unexpected, not only the expected.

Very well thought out. Great response.

 

[sloeffle]

Ordered my Omega temperature controller, box and timer today. I cannot wait!!

Would like to get a temp controller setup on my Caddy. I found the following info in this thread, and from some help from @brenndatomu :

Mcmaster #3871K52 Thermocouple - https://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/122/622/=156i3bm

Omega engineering # CN418V-R1-R2 temp controller - (broken link removed to http://www.omega.com/pptst/CN4000_SERIES.html) - Only place I can find it on the web

Mcmaster #75065K35 Electrical Box - https://www.mcmaster.com/#75065k35/=wjbfxb

Timer - Do anybody have a part number or web site for this ?

@3fordasho or @TDD11 does this look correct.

Thanks,
Scott

 

[3fordasho]

Timer like this: http://www.menards.com/main/electri...426729125-c-6471.htm?tid=-8071111794301443338

The other items are correct.

Would like to get a temp controller setup on my Caddy. I found the following info in this thread, and from some help from @brenndatomu :

Mcmaster #3871K52 Thermocouple - https://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/122/622/=156i3bm

Omega engineering # CN418V-R1-R2 temp controller - (broken link removed to http://www.omega.com/pptst/CN4000_SERIES.html) - Only place I can find it on the web

Mcmaster #75065K35 Electrical Box - https://www.mcmaster.com/#75065k35/=wjbfxb

Timer - Do anybody have a part number or web site for this ?

@3fordasho or @TDD11 does this look correct.

Thanks,
Scott