Dissapointed in New Blaze King King

[Squisher]

That's not bad. You're a good sport Trevj. So I took a couple pieces of fir out that I had sitting inside split them, brought them back in and tested. I saw 16-18% with my meter.

 

[trevj]

I can read your frustration as I would be too, dropping that money and not staying warm. But comprehend too yourself when people here tell you that 625 flat out is cool for a king king overtop of the cat. Something isn't right and people are just trying to help you out. We've seen no pictures of the actual setup so everyone is guessing online from your descriptions.

Measure draft, measure wood moisture, try cracking the window. Answers to these questions will help if you are serious about wanting to sort the issue.

And the type of install you described of a hood over a freestanding stove leading into the return air of your forced air electrical furnace is not allowed, in the WETT manual it just references the national building code and has quite a stern warning about these type of setups. I paraphrased it quite a bit, I'm still poking around the bc building code for further reference.

A window downstairs, or up?

If I understand correctly, the negative pressure you refer to is from the warm air mass in the basement attempting to rise, countering the flow of air/draft up the chimney, correct?

I sorta think I got the physics, if a little tenuous on the terminology.

What do you know about the installation of the likes of the larger Furnaces with the ducting intended to be hooked in to the central system? Do they fall under the same requirements for emissions?
If I have to choose between one of those, and what I have now, I can tell ya in a heartbeat that the Blaze King would be out the door. I don't really care if it looks like a 1970's refrigerator with the wrong kind of door on it, if it heats!

I have free wood, and bloody lots of it. Most will either fall on the ground, and rot, or be stacked and burned as part of the post-logging clean-up.
I don't pay for wood. If I had to do that, I'd plant roses in every wood stove here, and use them as roadside sign holders.

My house actually feels warm for the first time in a while. It hasn't been all that cold out.

Cheers
Trev

 

[Squisher]

A basement window preferably in the room the stove is in if it has one. The idea is if your warm air is leaking up and out of your house if there's not enough makeup air coming into the basement it can weaken draft. So allowing makeup combustion air(through the window) may help your stove draft and burn hotter.

I have to run here shortly. Feed horses and head to town so I'll check in later about the furnace/add on when I can sit and collect some thoughts.

 

[trevj]

That's not bad. You're a good sport Trevj. So I took a couple pieces of fir out that I had sitting inside split them, brought them back in and tested. I saw 16-18% with my meter.

View attachment 193399

Oh, this ain't about sport.

I AM really frustrated with this stove, the process around buying it, the restrictions of choices in technology levels, getting the install signed off, and esp that it really has not met my expectations.
The smoke flare when loading, and the Cat housing below the door line, are cumulative to that. Additional irritants.

Yeah, this wood could be a bit drier, but as I am seeing it, falls into the range that would be considered decent wood. Not ideal, but decent.
Now I gotta track down a manometer.

Based upon some of what I have been told here, I may have reason to have a chat with my retailer. I went to them and explained what I wanted, got this. I have no intention of not knowing bloody well enough to be able to carry on an informed conversation if it comes to it. It's been...educational!

I'll see if I can find my camera and post a pic. I would not have thought it hard to visualize straight up, a 90 degree bend formed from two 45 degree bends and a straight run horizontal to a thimble on the side of the cinder blocks, which, I observe, are supporting the brick of the open fireplace up in the living room, aside from providing some warm thermal mass throughout the vertical run through the house.

And I really should sweep up the spiderwebs that are there beforehand!

I appreciate the help.

Cheers
Trev

 

[Squisher]

No worries. Sometimes pics help catch something that otherwise might be missed is all. And it gets people dusting. Lol.

 

[webby3650]

Oh, this ain't about sport.

I AM really frustrated with this stove, the process around buying it, the restrictions of choices in technology levels, getting the install signed off, and esp that it really has not met my expectations.
The smoke flare when loading, and the Cat housing below the door line, are cumulative to that. Additional irritants.

Yeah, this wood could be a bit drier, but as I am seeing it, falls into the range that would be considered decent wood. Not ideal, but decent.
Now I gotta track down a manometer.

Based upon some of what I have been told here, I may have reason to have a chat with my retailer. I went to them and explained what I wanted, got this. I have no intention of not knowing bloody well enough to be able to carry on an informed conversation if it comes to it. It's been...educational!

I'll see if I can find my camera and post a pic. I would not have thought it hard to visualize straight up, a 90 degree bend formed from two 45 degree bends and a straight run horizontal to a thimble on the side of the cinder blocks, which, I observe, are supporting the brick of the open fireplace up in the living room, aside from providing some warm thermal mass throughout the vertical run through the house.

And I really should sweep up the spiderwebs that are there beforehand!

I appreciate the help.

Cheers
Trev

Mano or not, the flue is undersized. A Proper flue is the number 1 requirement from BK. 7" single wall pipe into a 7x8 clay flue. 7x8 square will not do as well as an 8" round flue. I really think the undersized flue is the issue here..

 

[Highbeam]

For giggles, I just walked out and pulled a block of the same off the pile, and split it, measured it immediately and came up with 21.4 to 21.6 percent on the inside face of the pieces.

So your actual wood when cold out in the stack is only 21.6%. It gets worse when it warms. There was a chart that showed how much but it wasn't just a couple of %.

We know the stove is burning lots of fuel but the stove is not getting hot. What happens when you overdraft a cat stove? Anybody know?

 

[trevj]

A basement window preferably in the room the stove is in if it has one. The idea is if your warm air is leaking up and out of your house if there's not enough makeup air coming into the basement it can weaken draft. So allowing makeup combustion air(through the window) may help your stove draft and burn hotter.

I have to run here shortly. Feed horses and head to town so I'll check in later about the furnace/add on when I can sit and collect some thoughts.

No windows in the room, but there is an outside air vent. It is open.

In a perfect world I suspect it should be able to be ducted from outside directly to the stove combustion air inlet (why DON"T they do that?) but here it is serving as a fresh air vent into the basement area. Appears to be a 5 inch duct.

I have not the gear on hand to wire my chimney with half a dozen separate temperature readings to watch all the numbers flicker too and fro, and the non-contact thermometer my wife had, is at her girlfriend's place in Alberta, so getting surface temps is pretty much limited to what my thermocouple equipped multimeter will show when propped on to a flat surface.

I have thick skin, am stupid enough about some stuff, and boot stubborn enough to be Dutch, on others, though not too thick to learn something new, and cure my ignorance, but had I found a post like this one while I was shopping for reasonable alternatives to what I had, I would have been a lot better educated about what i was getting in to.

Cheers
Trev

 

[Highbeam]

7x8 square will not do as well as an 8" round flue.

Why not? 7x8 is 56 in^2. 8" round is 50.62 in^2. It would seem that the masonry is perfectly sized per the fire code if not a little too big. And then it's 30 feet tall!

That 7" choke is not cool though.

 

[trevj]

Mano or not, the flue is undersized. A Proper flue is the number 1 requirement from BK. 7" single wall pipe into a 7x8 clay flue. 7x8 square will not do as well as an 8" round flue. I really think the undersized flue is the issue here..

Well since running a new chimney through the middle of the house isn't really in the cards, and I was assured that the drop in size would NOT be an issue, what else do I have, besides a bargain for somebody else?

At the very least, a reading with an actual number, is a reference point to use when talking with the folks, whether that be the retailer, or Blaze King's techs, which was suggested to me by an acquaintance.

Cheers
Trev

 

[bholler]

Why not? 7x8 is 56 in^2. 8" round is 50.62 in^2. It would seem that the masonry is perfectly sized per the fire code if not a little too big. And then it's 30 feet tall!

Yes but a square liner has allot of turbulence in the corners and that reduces both volume and velocity pretty dramatically. he sizing charts for square and rectangle liners are very different volume wise than round liners. Even oval liners hurt draft. But again there are allot of stoves including kings running on square clay lined chimneys. And if the chimney really is 30' I doubt that is the issue. You may very well be right it could be over drafting.

 

[bholler]

Well since running a new chimney through the middle of the house isn't really in the cards, and I was assured that the drop in size would NOT be an issue, what else do I have, besides a bargain for somebody else?

You could always break out the old clay and put in a stainless liner.

The people that assured you the chimney would be fine also told you a 7" connector pipe would be fine as well. I have to question their advice. Did they inspect the chimney before giving you this advice?

 

[Highbeam]

In a perfect world I suspect it should be able to be ducted from outside directly to the stove combustion air inlet (why DON"T they do that?)

They do do that. My BK is directly connected to an outdoor air supply. None of the air for combustion is robbed from the living space and changes in indoor pressure do not affect combustion.

You don't need a million wires, just a single surface thermometer stuck on the flue. If your chimney is drafting really hard it will be sucking all of your hard earned heat up through the stack and making it extra hot. Whatever tool you used to determine 625 stove top temps, use that to measure surface temps of that 7" section of pipe when it's running.

 

[Attaboy]

Well since running a new chimney through the middle of the house isn't really in the cards, and I was assured that the drop in size would NOT be an issue, what else do I have, besides a bargain for somebody else?

Trev

Trev it is easy to detect your frustration and perhaps even a little disdain for your Blaze King at this time, you seem to be throwing in the towel way to early however. There are many many happy Blaze King owners on this site, it is definitely not a bad stove. From what I have read I believe cat stoves seem to prefer wood at between 12% - 16% moisture content, your wood is not all that bad at +-20% or so. Out of curiosity have you tried adding a small eco-log in your load for testing purposes, these are extremely dry and have high a BTU content, I say this because I would be curious to know what happens with the temps in one or two trial loads with just one eco-log mixed in with the rest.

I still think you have a flue & chimney problem, have you discussed your problem and situation with the selling dealer and what exactly is his take on it.

It sure would be useful to know what the exact draw is on your chimney.

 

[rdust]

The king is a convection heater, I don't think it's gonna produce enough heat for the hood to work worth a damn. Even if the top gets to 800 the duct works is probably not insulated and will lose almost any heat it picks up by the time it gets to another room. A king at 600 should be throwing plenty of heat.

Get the fans for the stove, if that fails to work get a wood furnace and be done with it.

We see it all the time where people go from face searing pre EPA radiant heaters to modern convection heaters and are unhappy.

How often did you have to reload the old stove? How long is the king burning?

 

[mitchell721]

I would agree with attaboy and try some wood bricks
https://www.menards.com/main/heatin...444870049-c-6855.htm?tid=-4135608639628764708
Something along them lines. Process of elimination.

 

[mitchell721]

R dust if I'm understanding his set up and his house layout correctly the stove is in the basement with the ductwork so ductwork should be hot and not have a loss really. Just my 2 cents

 

[trevj]

Trev it is easy to detect your frustration and perhaps even a little disdain for your Blaze King at this time, you seem to be throwing in the towel way to early however. There are many many happy Blaze King owners on this site, it is definitely not a bad stove. From what I have read I believe cat stoves seem to prefer wood at between 12% - 16% moisture content, your wood is not all that bad at +-20% or so. Out of curiosity have you tried adding a small eco-log in your load for testing purposes, these are extremely dry and have high a BTU content, I say this because I would be curious to know what happens with the temps in one or two trial loads with just one eco-log mixed in with the rest.

I still think you have a flue & chimney problem, have you discussed your problem and situation with the selling dealer and what exactly is his take on it.

It sure would be useful to know what the exact draw is on your chimney.

Nope, not talked to my dealer yet. at this point, I am disappointed in my purchase, but my thoughts on the dealer, or maybe more correctly, the sales guy, are impolite.

There is a recurring theme, in that his advice is considered...suspect.

I am pretty much beginning to feel the same, that the flue, and esp the pipe between the stove and the flue itself, may be contributors to the difficulties, if not the outright cause. Having an actual number, measured, to use in that particular conversation will be of value, I think. Esp. given that I have been told that it should not make that much difference, vs. that there are folks here expressing disbelief that anyone would say such a thing. So. Numbers. Measured. Hard to explain away.

Nope, not even considered buying fuel of any sort. Those the things they sell in the grocery stores? I'll keep an eye out. Worth a couple bucks to try. Already ate $4K, whats a little pocket change, eh?

Cheers
Trev

 

[bholler]

Nope, not talked to my dealer yet. at this point, I am disappointed in my purchase, but my thoughts on the dealer, or maybe more correctly, the sales guy, are impolite.

So you are having problems but did not ask the dealer for advice???? That should be your first call

 

[mitchell721]

Trev the compressed wood ones are for wood stoves. Make sure if you try it, not to get one of only fireplace light the packages ones. But I agree with bholler I would definitely let them know your having issues and you need them to get it solved. You just spent a good amount of money with them.

 

[trevj]

The king is a convection heater, I don't think it's gonna produce enough heat for the hood to work worth a damn. Even if the top gets to 800 the duct works is probably not insulated and will lose almost any heat it picks up by the time it gets to another room. A king at 600 should be throwing plenty of heat.

Get the fans for the stove, if that fails to work get a wood furnace and be done with it.

We see it all the time where people go from face searing pre EPA radiant heaters to modern convection heaters and are unhappy.

How often did you have to reload the old stove? How long is the king burning?

Uhhh.... the whole point of the ductwork is to move the heat throughout the house. Heat 'lost' to the duct, is heat dropped into the room it came from.
The rest gets used as circulated air throughout the house. It's not like the stuff is running outside and around the place in unheated space.

Wood furnace looks like it would have been a better choice. Was told it wasn't an option. Esp. in regards to the issues of code and my current install, it looks like it may be the only option if I wish to have the hot air circulated without installing a complete separate system, which is about as likely as tearing out the chimney, at this point.

Well, count me among the unhappy. And, not warm. And, having to listen to my wife complain about being cold.

Old stove? Loaded every six or so hours. More often if it was really cold out and I wanted to keep it stoked, I could sleep eight hours with it damped down and there would still be decent coals, though I usually left it at about half throttle to burn down as it would then go out, and relit in the morning.

The new, I am dropping the heat control down at bedtime, and getting down to turn it up after my coffee in the morning, on a carefully full load. 10:30-11:00 at night to between 8:00 and 9:00 or so. Usually lots left by that time. That is as long a period I have usually left it. When it was cold here, I would top off the wood when the meter on the cat started to show a drop away from the top end of the scale, if my wife wasn't complaining first.
Folks gave me the impression that running the stove full up gave better heat output.

Like I said several times, if I wanted a 40 hour burn and low heat output, I can light a candle for that.

Cheers
Trev

 

[Attaboy]

Trev this is what you are looking for in test eco-logs, normally sold in hardware stores in boxes of 10 per box, many different brands out there. I have never seen these in grocery stores, grocery stores normally sell those garbage logs that you really really do not want to put in your blaze king.

(broken link removed to https://www.homehardware.ca/en/rec/index.htm/Heating-Ventilation-Cooling-Home-Comfort/Heating/Stove-Fireplace-Supp/Fuel/10-Pack-3lb-Fireplace-Logs/_/N-2pqfZ67l/Ne-67n/Ntk-All_EN/R-I5515190?Ntt=logs)

 

[bholler]

Like I said several times, if I wanted a 40 hour burn and low heat output, I can light a candle for that.

Then why did you pay a premium for a stove that excels at that?

 

[mitchell721]

Well that's low. On high with full load still claim 51k btu hr for 12 hrs. Now that's I'm sure oak or hedge or something but seems like you still crank out some serious heat for them 12 hrs on high

 

[Attaboy]

Out of curiosity Trev, how cold does it get where you live during the day and at night.