Dissapointed in New Blaze King King

[trevj]

And That's exactly what the King does. You were not mislead. You have some unique situation going on. My quess would be on the undersized chimney and uninsulated basement.

I am trying to figure out how the basement insulation falls in this. The basement was warm before the Blaze King stove was installed. I was expecting more heat, not less. One of the absolute joys of this basement is that it was warm in winter, cool and dark in summer. It is part of the living space, heated by my electric furnace. Not really seeing how that somehow has a great big ol`affect on the results here.
Explain? Please.

It was the seller who assured me the stove would work on my chimney, with the 8 to 7 reducer, which they supplied me, for no additional charges (Yeah.TANSTAAFL).

Cheers
Trev

 

[bholler]

The current wood is fir from a clean dry tree, not the pitchy one.

That doesnt mean it is dry. It may verywell be dry but we dont know and many of your symptoms sound like wet wood.

 

[trevj]

That doesnt mean it is dry. It may verywell be dry but we dont know and many of your symptoms sound like wet wood.

We`ve danced around that particular stump a couple time so far in this thread. Will report back with actual numbers, when I have a meter in hand.

And, to be in context, that conversation was with regard to using the pitch consistency, to estimate the wood dryness, which, while that may be OK for his purposes with his experience with spruce ooze, has little or no bearing upon estimating the dryness of my standing dead fir, which was not even the individual tree that I was burning over the last while, rather was in relation to the question I commented upon having, regarding cat stoves and pitch soaked, and pitch covered, wood.

Cheers
Trev

 

[rwhite]

I just can't imagine it's the stove. I'm burning d-fir and lodge pole, stove cruising at 525f on low in an 1800 sqft ranch with the stove on one end and bedrooms on the other. Living room is 78f and the back rooms are 68f. I've yet to see stove top temps over 700 like I did with a tube stove. I'd have to get out the chaise lounge and go lay out in the snow if that was the case. They do seem to be a bit touchier with draft than other stoves I've burned but I only open it 1-2 times a day anyway. I think you have a poor engine hooked to the gas tank or the block wall is soaking up all the heat. Maybe you know but forced air furnaces just blow hot air. They don't do much to heat "stuff" up and they run a lot depending on thermostat location. Wood stove has to heat all the "stuff" up first.

 

[webby3650]

I am trying to figure out how the basement insulation falls in this. The basement was warm before the Blaze King stove was installed. I was expecting more heat, not less. One of the absolute joys of this basement is that it was warm in winter, cool and dark in summer. It is part of the living space, heated by my electric furnace. Not really seeing how that somehow has a great big ol`affect on the results here.
Explain? Please.

It was the seller who assured me the stove would work on my chimney, with the 8 to 7 reducer, which they supplied me, for no additional charges (Yeah.TANSTAAFL).

Cheers
Trev

No reputable or knowledgeable person would say it's ok to reduce an 8" stove to 7", then run it on an undersized masonry chimney.... particularly a stove that demands good draft to function properly.

 

[Highbeam]

I'm not too worried about the 56 square inch masonry which is bigger than the 8" round flue at pi *16 so like 50. The chunk of 7" and the early elbows don't meet spec. The chimney is like 30 feet tall above the stove though so the smoke rollout might be because of this but not low output.

Must be wet wood. Heat is being made but consumed to boil water. Will be fun to see the results of moisture testing. Remember to warm the split in the house overnight and test on a freshly split face.

 

[Poindexter]

I suggest 48 hours indoors before attempting a mm reading. Yes, he is south of me but he is still north of edmonton, which is north of calgary, which is north of montana.

 

[rwhite]

I'm not too worried about the 56 square inch masonry which is bigger than the 8" round flue at pi *16 so like 50. The chunk of 7" and the early elbows don't meet spec. The chimney is like 30 feet tall above the stove though so the smoke rollout might be because of this but not low output.

Must be wet wood. Heat is being made but consumed to boil water. Will be fun to see the results of moisture testing. Remember to warm the split in the house overnight and test on a freshly split face.

IDK, basements can create some strange neg. pressures. In my previous home I had to completely seal my open fire place because it would draw smoke from another close by main floor flue.

 

[Squisher]

I suggest 48 hours indoors before attempting a mm reading. Yes, he is south of me but he is still north of edmonton, which is north of calgary, which is north of montana.

Not that it matters much but he'd be just south of Calgary. In my neck of the woods relatively, a bit north from me.

Judging fir moisture by pitch is going to be an inaccurate science at best. but ime with fir, even standing dead, it doesn't dry properly until either the barks off or it's split and bucked. In log form fir will stay wet for years. I cut up fir this summer that I had decked on a property off the ground. It was dead already when felled and eight years later it was still wet under the bark, the outer rings on a lot had started to rot but the solid heartwood was still moist. It's been my experience that d fir in log form with the bark on doesn't cure much at all. Espescially large trees like the OP referred to. The eight year old stuff I cut up this summer was from trees 30-40"s dbh.

Here's a pic of one of the butts. Notice my ahem, perfect hinge.

 

[trevj]

No reputable or knowledgeable person would say it's ok to reduce an 8" stove to 7", then run it on an undersized masonry chimney.... particularly a stove that demands good draft to function properly.

Well, I was there, and now we're here trying to figure out how and why.
Not speaking well for the guys that sold me the Blaze King, either.

I suggest 48 hours indoors before attempting a mm reading. Yes, he is south of me but he is still north of edmonton, which is north of calgary, which is north of montana.

And I am at an elevation well over a thousand feet lower than the Prairies. It's not ALL simply about how far North one is. Calgary is at 3400 feet. Edmonton is at 2100, home is at 820 feet and Montana is running between 1900 and just short of 8000 feet elevation, which put them fully a thousand feet higher, and at outer reaches, a little higher than the rather steep mountain that rises up behind our property, which peaks out about 7500.

Vancouver and Seattle both, are North of much of Montana, but when it actually gets cold there, it pretty much becomes the comedy filler for the news that week, watching the traffic camera footage. Elevation Matters!

 

[rwhite]

Maybe if you just let us know what answer you want we can end the thread. It's not the wood, it's not the chimney, it's not that it's in an uninsulated basement, so it must be the stove. I'd run out and buy a new one.

 

[Poindexter]

Not that it matters much but he'd be just south of Calgary. In my neck of the woods relatively, a bit north from me.

Here's a pic of one of the butts. Notice my ahem, perfect hinge.

View attachment 193355

My bad. Post one says both northern Alberta and BC, I had my wires crossed on that one. Nice hinge.

 

[Poindexter]

Judging fir moisture by pitch is going to be an inaccurate science at best.

I agree that there is going to be variation by species, and probably some variation by individuals within a species growing on the same hill, but I have tested enough of my local spruce to be happy. I don't plan to whip out a moisture much at all this summer, until I think I have got next winter's wood down to 12%. With my white and black spruce the sap bubbles skin over around 25%, solidify all the way through around 16%, and will shatter jagged enough to draw blood on my thumb around 12%.

I have no earthly idea what the corresponding numbers would be for D Fir. I bet rings per inch makes a difference too. Not a lot of local variation on that dimension in B/W spruce, but I have seen RPI from 2 or 3 out to 30+ in the lumber yard on studs labeled D Fir.

but ime with fir, even standing dead, it doesn't dry properly until either the barks off or it's split and bucked. In log form fir will stay wet for years. I cut up fir this summer that I had decked on a property off the ground. It was dead already when felled and eight years later it was still wet under the bark, the outer rings on a lot had started to rot but the solid heartwood was still moist. It's been my experience that d fir in log form with the bark on doesn't cure much at all. Espescially large trees like the OP referred to. The eight year old stuff I cut up this summer was from trees 30-40"s dbh.

@trevj , you have been helped by the miracle of the internet. I gots to go finish cleaning up my garage.

 

[Squisher]

Maybe if you just let us know what answer you want we can end the thread. It's not the wood, it's not the chimney, it's not that it's in an uninsulated basement, so it must be the stove. I'd run out and buy a new one.

Give the guy a chance, I mean he's Canadian eh. He already said he's going to attempt to measure draft and moisture and get back to us. The description of the wood sounded dry. But at -10cwood can seem dry too?

I wonder if that 8-7" reduction causes to much restriction for it if a 8" thimble could be fitted?

 

[rwhite]

Give the guy a chance, I mean he's Canadian eh. He already said he's going to attempt to measure draft and moisture and get back to us. The description of the wood sounded dry. But at -10cwood can seem dry too?

I wonder if that 8-7" reduction causes to much restriction for it if a 8" thimble could be fitted?

Maybe I'm a bit touchy but it seems as there's been an argument to every suggestion.

 

[volunbeer]

I am still trying to figure out my King stove so I am probably not much help, but so far this thing will run me out of the house running above 3:00 on the stat and our house is huge with high ceilings. We have about 3800 sq ft on the upper two floors with lots of big windows and I am burning mostly fir. My problems have come from trying to dial back the heat. I am struggling with that.

FWIW - I understand your frustration, but I find it very difficult to believe the stove is the problem based on my 54 days of experience with the King.

 

[tarzan]

I know this is a step ahead but If you ever figure out your problems and get the stove running correctly then you will get more heat out of the stove with the fan kit designed for the stove.

 

[Highbeam]

I wonder if that 8-7" reduction causes to much restriction for it if a 8" thimble could be fitted?

Maybe the 7" dimension of the 7x8 flue was facing the room. I also get worried about knocking out the whole side of flue, doesn't that weaken the column? Like a bad game of jenga?

If you're going to replace the thimble, can you move the dang thing up on the flue to allow the required vertical rise from the stove?

Maybe I'm a bit touchy but it seems as there's been an argument to every suggestion.

I expect and appreciate his response to each of our suggestions. We come up with potential causes and if he can rule any of them out then the pool of potential causes shrinks. We've seen posters get defensive and be unwilling to consider that their wood really is wet or sometimes they don't disclose a huge flaw in their system but that's what we need to look for to get this guy over the hump.

The BK king is properly sized to smoke this guy out of a normal 2200 SF house. It's not the stove, it's the installation or the operation and we ought to be able to ferret out the cause(s).

 

[Squisher]

I know not enough about masonry to say for certain what can or can't be done. But I have seen chimneys where one whole side of the clay liner had been knocked out to allow for the thimble.

Just spitballing.

 

[begreen]

I am trying to figure out how the basement insulation falls in this. The basement was warm before the Blaze King stove was installed. I was expecting more heat, not less. One of the absolute joys of this basement is that it was warm in winter, cool and dark in summer. It is part of the living space, heated by my electric furnace. Not really seeing how that somehow has a great big ol`affect on the results here.
Explain? Please.

It was the seller who assured me the stove would work on my chimney, with the 8 to 7 reducer, which they supplied me, for no additional charges (Yeah.TANSTAAFL).

Cheers
Trev

So is this a basement installation? If so, try cracking open a nearby window a little, 1" is fine, and see if the fire and stove top temp increases.

How well insulated is the basement?

 

[begreen]

I had not heard or seen an RSF-65 before. This line of Ardent stoves look like highly radiant large heaters. The RSF-65 had a 5 cu ft firebox. Starting with the RSF-85 they are wood furnaces. I haven't been able to find info on the RSF-45 but see they did make a 2 cu ft wood/coal heater that had a sophisticated downdraft design. Did your stove look like this?

 

[Dieselhead]

Load your stove with the logs going from front to back like everyone else instead of left to right so you dont have to reach to the far back of the stove and burn your arm on the bypass/cat housing. Smoke on reload is obviously a draft issue or the bypass isn't opened.

 

[trevj]

Not that it matters much but he'd be just south of Calgary. In my neck of the woods relatively, a bit north from me.

Judging fir moisture by pitch is going to be an inaccurate science at best. but ime with fir, even standing dead, it doesn't dry properly until either the barks off or it's split and bucked. In log form fir will stay wet for years. I cut up fir this summer that I had decked on a property off the ground. It was dead already when felled and eight years later it was still wet under the bark, the outer rings on a lot had started to rot but the solid heartwood was still moist. It's been my experience that d fir in log form with the bark on doesn't cure much at all. Espescially large trees like the OP referred to. The eight year old stuff I cut up this summer was from trees 30-40"s dbh.

Here's a pic of one of the butts. Notice my ahem, perfect hinge.

View attachment 193355

My experience, scrounging around our woodlot for firewood over the past few years, has been that a log on the ground, stays wet, even gains moisture, while a standing tree stays dryer. Fallen dead propped up on dunnage, natural or otherwise, are generally moister than a standing tree, but not as wet as one in ground contact. Personally, I figure it comes about due to ground contact, less air circulation around it, that the bark is not able to shed water as it is when the tree is vertical, but that's just my theory. Just based on the burning characteristics, as well as the behavior when splitting.
It makes some sense to me, when taken in the context of the cycle of trees falling over, rotting, and becoming food for the next generation of trees. YMMV. It's allowed.

Nice hinge! All that and modest too!

Cheers
Trev

 

[Squisher]

Lol. Yah. But we can agree I hope that dfir takes 3-4 years to drop its needles once standing dead. At that point the wood is not dry and cured.

Standing dead fir with bark on is not cured and once felled will generally tak 6-8 months split and stacked to dry out. The only standing dead fir that's going to be ready to burn once felled, will be barkless and have big checks in it. It will have been standing dead for a long long time and will have few to no limbs left attached.

Besides burning all my life. I logged for 12 years and did residential treework for ten. I've had extensive training in hazard(dead) tree assessment and am a certified arborist as well.

Trees on the stump(standing dead) take much longer to cure than felled trees decked up like I described earlier. Due to the ongoing capillary action of the roots.

 

[Squisher]

There are variations for sure due to local, exposure, etc. But generally the larger the tree and tighter the grain the longer it takes to cure.