CANT DECIDE BETWEEN REGULAR OWB OR OUTDOOR WOOD GASSER

[BrotherBart]

Amen Fred. A big Amen.

BB -- Sixty-six in two weeks.

 

[Roundgunner]

I'm new to this but will give you my thoughts.

I have a extremely large heating demand and growing.


My house + business combination is 2500 sq, with a 1400sq Modine serviced ( occasionally ) 3 car garage, that has my mother inlaws 900 sq. house attached on the other side.


The growing part is a under construction 31 X 40 3 car garage with a 2 bedroom apartment above it for my daughter and her family. With a enclosed sun/pool room 15x30. This garage will have a Modine also.


I have 2 oil boilers, one in each basement of the existing house’s. The big house has 2 air handlers and the pool heater. The small house has 1 air handler and the garage Modine. When the other garage, apartment, sun room are done the smaller house boiler will supply the air handler and Modine for it.


Long winded but it shows it is complicated and large.



I got a Profab Empyre elite II 200 last fall. It is a OWB gasser built into a too small woodshed (9 x13) about 30 from the new garage into the woods.


I have the gasser plumbed into a manifold in the existing garage splitting water off to the heat exchangers in each basement creating a secondary loop with the oil dragons. I did it this way because it is the end of the plumbing changes, and if the wood goes out or can’t keep the secondary loop hot enough for the demand the oil dragon will kick in.


Performance:

I used to have a homemade wood boiler to heat my pool and I burned pine in it because people were always giving it to me for nothing. In October I had about 6 cord of seasoned pine and 3 cord of seasoned maple that was cut and split too small, it was for our small emergency heat portable woodstove.


I also gathered a few cords of log length miscellaneous hardwood that came down during hurricane Sandy (fall 1.5 years ago) that I thought would be OK to burn. Remember I said I was new?

The boiler makes plenty of heat, the pumps move the hot water around pretty good too, the heat exchangers are too small and will have to be replaced with larger better ones. (PM me if you want to buy some used 50 plate Heat exchangers.)

The wood has been my problem. I was not sure when my wife was going to see the light and let me do this project so when she did in September I was not quite ready with the wood and had no time to put into it as I installed the boiler and shed with a couple friends and it was a pretty big project and we were racing the cold weather.

The pine works but it burns pretty fast, the small maple burns nice too but is cut so small it burns fast too. I try to mix it and we have been getting by in this very cold winter. The 1.5 year old log length that I cut to length and split in November was not dry enough and for the most part is next years wood. I’m afraid I’m going to run out of wood before we run out of winter.

I like the way the boiler runs and Pro Fab sent me a new firebrick for the lower door with no hassle when I noticed a crack. I get hardly any smoke from it which is a good thing as I have neighbors. I fill it 3 times a day but when it is below zero over night I only let it go 6 hours because I don’t want it to get down to where the oil dragon has to kick in.

So far we have only burned 1/8th of a 275 gal oil tank and most of that was during the times I was cleaning the boiler. The way this runs with incorrect wood I bet next year when I have proper size and dry wood I will only fill twice a day unless it is real cold then only 3 times. I’m not sure what advantage a water storage tank would give me, the thing is not fun to cold start a new fire in so I don’t think I want to let it go out, ever. I have been able to clean it with enough embers to restart without the whole cold start PIA.

Cost

I got a deal on the boiler as it was the last one at the dealers who is not going to sell boilers anymore. $9000

Pumps, pex, fittings, copper and heat exchangers about $4000

Shed with windows and power $1100

Food and coffee for my helpers $400

My guess is I would have burned about 12-14 hundred gallons of oil by now. +$4000 between the 2 houses. (both houses are 73-74 degrees, both women have arthritis and the heat helps)

For the little bit of money difference I think you would be better served with a gasser OWB in a shed bigger than mine.

 

[kopeck]

How about this point, one that no one has really addressed. Who wants to go outside and feed a boiler on a cold, windy night? There's been nights when I haven't been feeling 100% that I can barley drag my self downstairs to get the Tarm going, I'm pretty sure I would burn oil/lp what ever on those nights if I had to go out to tend an OWB.

I can completely see having a boiler in another building if you don't want the mess in your house but again, it would be enclosed and out of the elements. There would still be some losses here but there's also a better chance to mitigate those losses.

I don't think it can really be argued that if you are looking to get the best bang for your cord a gasser inside your heated space is the way to go. OWBs work, but all that heat you are loosing to the ground and to the atmosphere adds up after awhile. It's just the nature of the beast. Add in the flat plate exchanger and there a bit more loss there as well (although that's a much smaller loss overall)

If you are willing to cut/burn more wood to make up for the losses then go for it!

K

 

[hobbyheater]

I'm new to this but will give you my thoughts..

Welcome to " Hearth" !

Good post!

 

[dspoon19]

I'm new to this but will give you my thoughts.

I have a extremely large heating demand and growing.


My house + business combination is 2500 sq, with a 1400sq Modine serviced ( occasionally ) 3 car garage, that has my mother inlaws 900 sq. house attached on the other side.


The growing part is a under construction 31 X 40 3 car garage with a 2 bedroom apartment above it for my daughter and her family. With a enclosed sun/pool room 15x30. This garage will have a Modine also.


I have 2 oil boilers, one in each basement of the existing house’s. The big house has 2 air handlers and the pool heater. The small house has 1 air handler and the garage Modine. When the other garage, apartment, sun room are done the smaller house boiler will supply the air handler and Modine for it.


Long winded but it shows it is complicated and large.



I got a Profab Empyre elite II 200 last fall. It is a OWB gasser built into a too small woodshed (9 x13) about 30 from the new garage into the woods.


I have the gasser plumbed into a manifold in the existing garage splitting water off to the heat exchangers in each basement creating a secondary loop with the oil dragons. I did it this way because it is the end of the plumbing changes, and if the wood goes out or can’t keep the secondary loop hot enough for the demand the oil dragon will kick in.


Performance:

I used to have a homemade wood boiler to heat my pool and I burned pine in it because people were always giving it to me for nothing. In October I had about 6 cord of seasoned pine and 3 cord of seasoned maple that was cut and split too small, it was for our small emergency heat portable woodstove.


I also gathered a few cords of log length miscellaneous hardwood that came down during hurricane Sandy (fall 1.5 years ago) that I thought would be OK to burn. Remember I said I was new?

The boiler makes plenty of heat, the pumps move the hot water around pretty good too, the heat exchangers are too small and will have to be replaced with larger better ones. (PM me if you want to buy some used 50 plate Heat exchangers.)

The wood has been my problem. I was not sure when my wife was going to see the light and let me do this project so when she did in September I was not quite ready with the wood and had no time to put into it as I installed the boiler and shed with a couple friends and it was a pretty big project and we were racing the cold weather.

The pine works but it burns pretty fast, the small maple burns nice too but is cut so small it burns fast too. I try to mix it and we have been getting by in this very cold winter. The 1.5 year old log length that I cut to length and split in November was not dry enough and for the most part is next years wood. I’m afraid I’m going to run out of wood before we run out of winter.

I like the way the boiler runs and Pro Fab sent me a new firebrick for the lower door with no hassle when I noticed a crack. I get hardly any smoke from it which is a good thing as I have neighbors. I fill it 3 times a day but when it is below zero over night I only let it go 6 hours because I don’t want it to get down to where the oil dragon has to kick in.

So far we have only burned 1/8th of a 275 gal oil tank and most of that was during the times I was cleaning the boiler. The way this runs with incorrect wood I bet next year when I have proper size and dry wood I will only fill twice a day unless it is real cold then only 3 times. I’m not sure what advantage a water storage tank would give me, the thing is not fun to cold start a new fire in so I don’t think I want to let it go out, ever. I have been able to clean it with enough embers to restart without the whole cold start PIA.

Cost

I got a deal on the boiler as it was the last one at the dealers who is not going to sell boilers anymore. $9000

Pumps, pex, fittings, copper and heat exchangers about $4000

Shed with windows and power $1100

Food and coffee for my helpers $400

My guess is I would have burned about 12-14 hundred gallons of oil by now. +$4000 between the 2 houses. (both houses are 73-74 degrees, both women have arthritis and the heat helps)

For the little bit of money difference I think you would be better served with a gasser OWB in a shed bigger than mine.

Thanks for laying this out there! I was hoping someone could break down the "total cost" of a gasser system. Now I would like to see a comparable regular OWB system broke down. Is all the ancillary equipment really 4K? I was just quoted a Hawken OWB for 6300 and the dealer said total would be around 8500 with all fittings, pumps, piping, etc. I know the good pex is expensive but besides that its just ball valves, a taco recirc. pump, filter, HX'er and misc. copper fittings. I don't see how all those things could all add up to $2200 for me. I am an engineer and have been designing industrial glass melting furnaces for years and I know the cost of the equipment that goes with the actual furnace is expensive but no where near the actual tank cost! Thanks though for sharing your experiences!

 

[dspoon19]

How about this point, one that no one has really addressed. Who wants to go outside and feed a boiler on a cold, windy night? There's been nights when I haven't been feeling 100% that I can barley drag my self downstairs to get the Tarm going, I'm pretty sure I would burn oil/lp what ever on those nights if I had to go out to tend an OWB.

I can completely see having a boiler in another building if you don't want the mess in your house but again, it would be enclosed and out of the elements. There would still be some losses here but there's also a better chance to mitigate those losses.

I don't think it can really be argued that if you are looking to get the best bang for your cord a gasser inside your heated space is the way to go. OWBs work, but all that heat you are loosing to the ground and to the atmosphere adds up after awhile. It's just the nature of the beast. Add in the flat plate exchanger and there a bit more loss there as well (although that's a much smaller loss overall)

If you are willing to cut/burn more wood to make up for the losses then go for it!

K

Yeah I worry about that sometimes too, what if I don't feel good or work runs over or I have to go away for the weekend. I figure once I put it in the ROI is 2.5-3 years at current propane price/usage. I know I have to be dedicated in those 2.5-3 years or it will all be for nothing. I have a 36x40 pole barn plan in the works and I was going to situate the boiler so that if I decide to put it in there I can build the barn around the boiler. tuck it in a corner or something. I put my hand on my neighbors CB the other day and the sheet metal was barely warm. I also talked to the dealer because I was going to put it in the barn to help give off radiant heat from the unit but he said they are so well insulated that you wont get much heat off of them at all. he also said to check with insurance before I put the unit in the barn to check and see if they will insure the barn with it in there.

 

[kopeck]

Well, don't forget what ever heat is lost to the atmosphere is lost where and indoor boiler the heat loss is just absorbed into the house.

So it's even more then just how well insulated it is...

K

 

[heaterman]

Here's the math.......

5.5gl propane = 502150 btu's (91,300btu/gallon)

At the nominal industry figure of 21,000,000 btu's / cord of well seasoned wood will gross out to about 41 days worth of propane use for you.

BUT! THE DEVIL IS IN THE DETAILS.........

*Given the fact that even the best gasser OWB's will net about 50% efficiency (not including system losses from underground piping etc)....you are now looking at a cord every 20 days on average.
*If you look at a standard OWB with an efficiency of 30-35%, (those are measured real world numbers) you are down to burning a cord every 12-16 days or there abouts.
*Burn green unseasoned wood and you can cut another 3-6 days off the amount of time it will take to burn a cord of wood.

You will find, as have many others, that regardless of what the OWB salesman is telling you, a full cord every 2 weeks is about normal. One of my customers just told me that through this patch of cold recent cold weather he was torching through 2 full cords every 9-10 days.

If I were you I would not easily discount a good quality pellet boiler. Mine has been lit since last January and the display tells me I just hit the 8 ton mark. Less than $1500 invested for a years worth of heat and domestic hot water and about 10 minutes per week of my time.

 

[dspoon19]

Here's the math.......

5.5gl propane = 502150 btu's (91,300btu/gallon)

At the nominal industry figure of 21,000,000 btu's / cord of well seasoned wood will gross out to about 41 days worth of propane use for you.

BUT! THE DEVIL IS IN THE DETAILS.........

*Given the fact that even the best gasser OWB's will net about 50% efficiency (not including system losses from underground piping etc)....you are now looking at a cord every 20 days on average.
*If you look at a standard OWB with an efficiency of 30-35%, (those are measured real world numbers) you are down to burning a cord every 12-16 days or there abouts.
*Burn green unseasoned wood and you can cut another 3-6 days off the amount of time it will take to burn a cord of wood.

You will find, as have many others, that regardless of what the OWB salesman is telling you, a full cord every 2 weeks is about normal. One of my customers just told me that through this patch of cold recent cold weather he was torching through 2 full cords every 9-10 days.

If I were you I would not easily discount a good quality pellet boiler. Mine has been lit since last January and the display tells me I just hit the 8 ton mark. Less than $1500 invested for a years worth of heat and domestic hot water and about 10 minutes per week of my time.

When you look on most if not all of the OWB websites, they say they are rated for X amount of BTU's per hour with a properly seasoned wood. How do they arrive at this number? Is this number accurate. The boilers I am looking at are rated by the manufacturers at 225K BTU/Hr with good seasoned wood. Where do they measure BTU's at? I know they cant take into account losses in underground piping and stuff but to claim the BTU's and not back it up.....can they legally put that info on their sites??

 

[heaterman]

Excellent question and it does make you wonder how they can make those claims.

Basically, you are looking at efficiency ratings that were obtained in a lab, not outdoors, and using a test protocol that bears absolutely no resemblance to actual working conditions. (about like comparing me to Kate Upton)
The testing protocol was so flawed that the EPA quit telling manufacturers they had to use it until they came up with something else.
They also told the manufacturers involved that they should voluntarily cease using the efficiency numbers from those tests in their product literature because they were so phony. Sad to say, the word voluntary is key there and a lot of them are still quoting the bogus numbers.
In a sense, I do not feel sorry for anyone who is so ignorant that they would actually believe some of the claims of 98% efficiency some of the companies claim to produce. It is a physical impossibility.
The other thing they do is publish misleading numbers that use combustion efficiency only and ignore the fact that 70% of the heat produced exits out the chimney because thermal efficiency (heat exchanger design) is so poor.

Don't get sucked up in the hype.
The last time we did that, Obama got elected.

 

[Roundgunner]

Well just so I don’t feel so dumb, I have to think if the temp in the upper chamber of my gasser is, lets say 800 degrees and the lower chamber is 1800-2000 degrees and the temp coming out the stack is 350 that heat is going to be going into the water.

The water is losing temp every inch of the way but that’s life. If it comes out of the boiler at 175, heats over 3500 sq feet of house and DHW and returns at 155 to be reheated life is good. All that and if you are worried about cost you can gather your own wood, have you ever tried to drill a heating oil well?

 

[martyinmi]

*Given the fact that even the best gasser OWB's will net about 50% efficiency (not including system losses from underground piping etc)

Steve,
In your mind, would an Econoburn OWB be any more efficient then,say, an E-Classic?
Wouldn't a Garn in a barn, or any other European style gasser in an enclosure be near the 50% efficiency mark also, especially if the storage tanks were in the enclosure?
I'm not a huge believer in the EPA's numbers any more than you are. When the Garn was tested, it tested right in there with some of the higher testing OWB gassers.
I couldn't imagine any of the European indoor units being much more efficient, if any, at converting wood gas into heat than what the Garn is.
If we presuppose that they (indoor units) operate at 85% efficiency and employ mass indoor storage, then I need to know where the 35% in efficiencies went, especially if we are not including system losses from underground piping, etc., as that would make efficiencies for the OWB gasser even lower.
I'm aware that there are some losses from idle time, but any OWB gasser that I've seen shuts off the air completely when done cycling. If mine were to idle for more than about three hours, it would extinguish itself. I'm aware that there are some losses from the exhaust, and an OWB gassers exhaust losses would be higher than an indoor unit's, but how much? Radiant losses too, but how do we do a heat loss calculation? Has a study been done and published? How does one even calculate such losses?

Just to let everyone know, I consider Steve a friend. I've pm'd him on several occasions, and I've met him at his house and looked at his pellet boiler. He is one of the most intelligent HVAC professionals I've met.
I simply want to understand, from a heating and cooling professional's point of view that I trust, where the extra 35% goes.

In other words Steve, I want to get into your head! Just for a quick visit though.

Marty

 

[flyingcow]

Wohaa...Marty chimes in with a big pile of words. Go figure. BTW......my gasser still equals 150/175 gals of oil. Eclassic equals 100 gals. These are my numbers. Love to haunt when I'm right.

 

[martyinmi]

Hmmmmm.......In post 66 our favorite "airborne bovine" was "done with this". Now he's back seeking his own brand of "haunting" justice.

Give it up cow-boy. You'll not find a sane soul on this planet who'd bet a steak dinner on behalf your self fabricated 75% added efficiencies.

 

[Roundgunner]

Thanks for laying this out there! I was hoping someone could break down the "total cost" of a gasser system. Now I would like to see a comparable regular OWB system broke down. Is all the ancillary equipment really 4K? I was just quoted a Hawken OWB for 6300 and the dealer said total would be around 8500 with all fittings, pumps, piping, etc. I know the good pex is expensive but besides that its just ball valves, a taco recirc. pump, filter, HX'er and misc. copper fittings. I don't see how all those things could all add up to $2200 for me. I am an engineer and have been designing industrial glass melting furnaces for years and I know the cost of the equipment that goes with the actual furnace is expensive but no where near the actual tank cost! Thanks though for sharing your experiences!

I’m not sure of the actual cost, I tried to not bring it up too much, my wife was not thrilled. It seemed like I was getting more fittings every time I turned around.

I used over 400 feet of 1” Pex and insulation. 2 big 1” manifolds, 2- ¾ manifolds, 2 strainers, 2 check valves, 2 heat exchangers, 2 boat loads of copper and brass fittings and a truck load of hangers. It seemed to be never ending but it is nice now.

My wood boiler is up a hill so I used a Tyco 0014 at the boiler, 90 feet of 1” pex into a manifold then split to go into the two separate basements. I have a second and third Tyco 0014 in each basement just before a strainer then into the heat exchangers and back up to the manifold and finally back to the boiler. The secondary loop (oil) has a Tyco 007 on each loop.

I forgot that I had another friend (plumber) spend some time with us, I bought some fittings and the strainers from him and gave him $300 for his time and I owe him a few boxes of ammo when he lets me know what he needs.

 

[BoilerMan]

I’m not sure of the actual cost, I tried to not bring it up too much, my wife was not thrilled. It seemed like I was getting more fittings every time I turned around.

I used over 400 feet of 1” Pex and insulation. 2 big 1” manifolds, 2- ¾ manifolds, 2 strainers, 2 check valves, 2 heat exchangers, 2 boat loads of copper and brass fittings and a truck load of hangers. It seemed to be never ending but it is nice now.

My wood boiler is up a hill so I used a Tyco 0014 at the boiler, 90 feet of 1” pex into a manifold then split to go into the two separate basements. I have a second and third Tyco 0014 in each basement just before a strainer then into the heat exchangers and back up to the manifold and finally back to the boiler.

The cost to run those 3 TACO 0014's is not negligible either. 1.55amps X 120volts = 186 watts each X 3 = 558 total watts. Or basically .558Kwh. If those circulators run 24/7 at my electric rate of $0.15 that's $60/month. Then there are the air handlers and Modines you mentioned.

I guess what I'm saying is that in a typical OWB that is not pressureized (you need a HX and another high flow-low head pump) there are some significant operating costs of the circulating systems as well.

TS

 

[heaterman]

Steve,
In your mind, would an Econoburn OWB be any more efficient then,say, an E-Classic?
Wouldn't a Garn in a barn, or any other European style gasser in an enclosure be near the 50% efficiency mark also, especially if the storage tanks were in the enclosure?
I'm not a huge believer in the EPA's numbers any more than you are. When the Garn was tested, it tested right in there with some of the higher testing OWB gassers.
I couldn't imagine any of the European indoor units being much more efficient, if any, at converting wood gas into heat than what the Garn is.
If we presuppose that they (indoor units) operate at 85% efficiency and employ mass indoor storage, then I need to know where the 35% in efficiencies went, especially if we are not including system losses from underground piping, etc., as that would make efficiencies for the OWB gasser even lower.
I'm aware that there are some losses from idle time, but any OWB gasser that I've seen shuts off the air completely when done cycling. If mine were to idle for more than about three hours, it would extinguish itself. I'm aware that there are some losses from the exhaust, and an OWB gassers exhaust losses would be higher than an indoor unit's, but how much? Radiant losses too, but how do we do a heat loss calculation? Has a study been done and published? How does one even calculate such losses?

Just to let everyone know, I consider Steve a friend. I've pm'd him on several occasions, and I've met him at his house and looked at his pellet boiler. He is one of the most intelligent HVAC professionals I've met.
I simply want to understand, from a heating and cooling professional's point of view that I trust, where the extra 35% goes.

In other words Steve, I want to get into your head! Just for a quick visit though.

Marty

Talking about non gasser OWB's mainly Marty.
Some, albeit very few, of the OWB gassers do pretty decent.
I would not lump the Econoburn outdoor unit in with that group is it a totally different design than what is typically thought of when visualizing an OWB. IT is basically an indoor unit modified with a little "house" built around it.

No offense taken Marty. Stop in again if you get up this way sometime! The coffee pot is always on.

 

[martyinmi]

Kinda what I figured Steve.
I looked at precipitation amounts for your area the other day. It looks like you folks have received nearly 3x the snow that we have.
I'm thinking my new Jetta would need all wheel drive just to get within 50 miles of you!
No offense intended at all Steve. The coffee offer works both ways too. We have a Keurig with a half dozen different blends!

 

[heaterman]

I don't know exactly where you are so send me your address Marty. I've got a road trip on the schedule this week to Mt Pleasant and Shepherd area. One needs to get sized up for a Garn and the other guy is going with a Windhager. He's only about 3 miles from Maeder Brother pellet plant.
If there's time I may extend the journey and stop in. (Seems like you were around St Johns?)

 

[Buzz Saw]

Dspoon19, my sister & brother -in-law burn around 16 cords a year out of their CB E-classic. They live down by Norwalk, Ohio so the weather is pretty similar to NE Ohio.

FWIW When I do my set up it will be an indoor unit in an out building. I'm going to build a workshop so why not put everything indoors? The wood and boiler will have their own room in the the work shop. All the mess will be in that room, non in the house(which the mess is in the house now and it drives me crazy) Heck I'll probably make the boiler room a lean to with it's own garage door for easy wood unloading.

Wow, changing a pump when it is 10 below zero out?)

If something breaks down I'll be able to work on it in heated shelter with tools readily available.

 

[dspoon19]

Dspoon19, my sister & brother -in-law burn around 16 cords a year out of their CB E-classic. They live down by Norwalk, Ohio so the weather is pretty similar to NE Ohio.

FWIW When I do my set up it will be an indoor unit in an out building. I'm going to build a workshop so why not put everything indoors? The wood and boiler will have their own room in the the work shop. All the mess will be in that room, non in the house(which the mess is in the house now and it drives me crazy) Heck I'll probably make the boiler room a lean to with it's own garage door for easy wood unloading.



If something breaks down I'll be able to work on it in heated shelter with tools readily available.

Yeah I'm in Lagrange so they are very close to me. Wow that's a lot of wood. I hope I'm not burning that much!

After reading all of this and reviews from other websites I have compiled a spread sheet with 2 furnaces from each of the major MFG'ers. One of the furnaces being a gasser and the other a conventional OWB. I am listing the quotes I've gotten, warranties, ease of maintenance/repairs, customer service quality, efficiencies (even though everyone claims that the combustion efficiencies are bogus), and just general quality of the units. I think seeing everything laid out side-by-side will help me determine what I need to get.

Are you running any kinda outdoor wood burning appliance right now? If so what are your experiences?

 

[sloeffle]

I am south of you guys a few hours. If you need a spray foam guy for your PEX lines shoot me a PM and I can pass on his info.

Scott

 

[Buzz Saw]

Are you running any kinda outdoor wood burning appliance right now? If so what are your experiences?

I'm not running one, but I burn the hell out of my USSC hot blast furnace. I know of scads and scads of people around that are using OBW and they all seem to burn tons and tons of wood. To be fair I don't think any of these guys season their wood properly. My sister might have hers c/s/s 10 months or so before they start burning it. I didn't mention this in my first post, my sister's house is around 2000sqft with a 2000sqft detached garage(not very well insulated) that they heat, they also heat DHW. I think with properly seasoned wood they could get it down a few cords.

Saturday I was talking with a guy from Attica that has an OLD conventional indoor wood boiler. Not sure how many sq feet he heats but he said usually burns around 6 cords.

I've gone back and forth on what I'm going to do at my next house (inside vs outside) and I keep coming back to indoor. I guess in the long run if you warm and your project is a success. I'm really curious to see what you come up with as it could weigh in on my decisions in the future.

 

[Buzz Saw]

Heaterman, Do you know anyone down here in Northern Ohio that does your quality of work you would recommend us buckeyes to talk to/work with?

thanks

 

[dspoon19]

I'm not running one, but I burn the hell out of my USSC hot blast furnace. I know of scads and scads of people around that are using OBW and they all seem to burn tons and tons of wood. To be fair I don't think any of these guys season their wood properly. My sister might have hers c/s/s 10 months or so before they start burning it. I didn't mention this in my first post, my sister's house is around 2000sqft with a 2000sqft detached garage(not very well insulated) that they heat, they also heat DHW. I think with properly seasoned wood they could get it down a few cords.

Saturday I was talking with a guy from Attica that has an OLD conventional indoor wood boiler. Not sure how many sq feet he heats but he said usually burns around 6 cords.

I've gone back and forth on what I'm going to do at my next house (inside vs outside) and I keep coming back to indoor. I guess in the long run if you warm and your project is a success. I'm really curious to see what you come up with as it could weigh in on my decisions in the future.

Yes this area seems to be more of an OWB area vs a gasser area. The people that i know that burn are mostly farmers and for them the easiest way to feed a boiler is to drop a tree and leave the trunk and larger branches right by the boiler. When it needs stoked they just go cut off a hunk and throw it right in or they cut off a hunk and split it and throw it in. Very little if nothing is seasoned. Most people I talk to around here burn between 5 and 8 cords depending on the year.

I have almost unlimited supply of free wood, most of it being osage orange, shag bark hickory, oak, and elm. I season it properly and have it in 4-8" rounds x 2' long so there is no splitting. I dont think my wood situation could get any better. That said, I think getting a P&M BL28-40 will be my best bet. Its a robust, high efficiency conventional boiler. It cost $700 more than a CB 5036 but I think i'll get a better product and a more efficient product. I dont see an outdoor gasser or an indoor gasser in an outside shed worth the money for me. Still gathering numbes but so far thats how i'm leaning.