CANT DECIDE BETWEEN REGULAR OWB OR OUTDOOR WOOD GASSER

[stee6043]

A lot of fun stuff going on in this thread!

One thing I haven't seen is any feedback on startup cost between the OWB and gassers. I was under the impression that total installed cost for an OWB these days is almost spot-on with many of our gasser/storage setups? The comment above suggested an OWB could be installed for $6k compared to a gasser for $12k.

Am I correct in assuming you can't really do a new OWB these days for sub $10k with a pad, pex, etc and so on? I'd bet dollar for dollar these systems are pretty darn close anymore.

 

[MarkW]

Many are above $10k which is partly responsible for me deciding to go with the gasser. I think there are still some low end models available that would come in around $6k.

 

[dspoon19]

Portage and Main claim 80% average with gassers and 70% with their conventional OWB's. Is this true?

I think in my case the money leans towards the OWB and the time leans towards the gasser. the classic time and money dilemma!

 

[maple1]

There's a difference between combustion efficiency & heat transfer efficiency - it's one thing to turn the wood to heat, quite another to get the heat to where it's needed or will be used.

Have you actually gotten firm quotes on OWB (gassing or not) stuff? Would be interested to see what you're looking at for costs. My new setup cost me about $15k all-in, with about 2k of that being due just to me living in a different country than where I bought the boiler from. Also had costs for new DHW & backup heating included - and also includes 15% tax on everything bought here. I think I'll be around 6 cords of wood (1/3 of it windfall spruce) for all heat & DHW by the time this heating season is over - 20 year old 2700 sq.ft. two storey on exposed hilltop. For what that is worth.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Iv got a friend with an OWB. His house is smaller than mine. His wood pile is half

It has to be outside and it has to burn wood. I don't wanna get into pellet furnaces or anything indoors. I burnt wood indoors when I lived with my parents for 20 years and I know what a PITA indoor burning can be.

How about something in an attached garage. Best of both worlds.

 

[flyingcow]

I thought there were a few P n M users on this site. I don't think I've heard anything bad about the P n M on this site. You always here the bad 10 fold before the good pops up. Call Portage, maybe they have a few users in your area.

Keep in mind, you should have a pad for an OWB. Make the pad a bit bigger and four walls and put an indoor gasser in there. Just light insulation should work for now. Upgrade the building later. You really should have some sort of lean to or wood shed to keep wood under cover and dry. If i had to build a wood shed, I would design it to hold at least two seasons wood. Walkway down the middle for the wheel barrow. That way once you stack it, leave it.

The end of the heating season is getting closer. Year end deals, you never know what you might stumble across.

 

[hobbyheater]

Portage and Main claim 80% average with gassers and 70% with their conventional OWB's. Is this true?
!

I have only seen one Portage & Main Optimizer 250 in action. The house it heats is half the size of our home , but consumes double the wood .
Your 4 acre lot is very small in relation to the amount of smoke that a conventional OWB is going to make!

 

[Seasoned Oak]

I have only seen one Portage & Main Optimizer 250 in action. The house it heats is half the size of our home , but consumes double the wood .
Your 4 acre lot is very small in relation to the amount of smoke that a conventional OWB is going to make!

That sounds about right. Iv got a friend with an OWB. My houses is bigger than his,but his wood consumption is many times what mine is. Partly cuz it not seasoned too. If i had to handle that much wood id give up wood heat altogether. Not even a nice fire view for all your work.

 

[dspoon19]

A lot of fun stuff going on in this thread!

One thing I haven't seen is any feedback on startup cost between the OWB and gassers. I was under the impression that total installed cost for an OWB these days is almost spot-on with many of our gasser/storage setups? The comment above suggested an OWB could be installed for $6k compared to a gasser for $12k.

Am I correct in assuming you can't really do a new OWB these days for sub $10k with a pad, pex, etc and so on? I'd bet dollar for dollar these systems are pretty darn close anymore.

I'm just going by the Central Boiler website. They seem to be most prevalent in my area along with hawken energy. The classic 5036 OWB model is $6600. Parts and piping for a complete install will be around $1000. so right around $7600 +/- a few hundred dollars for a complete set up. so 8K to be safe.

 

[dspoon19]

Iv got a friend with an OWB. His house is smaller than mine. His wood pile is half

How about something in an attached garage. Best of both worlds.

Yea I thought about this. or putting in a pole barn im trying to get up before fall as well. my insurance company said unless the boiler is UL approved for indoor use I cant put it in the garage or barn and be covered.

 

[dspoon19]

I have only seen one Portage & Main Optimizer 250 in action. The house it heats is half the size of our home , but consumes double the wood .
Your 4 acre lot is very small in relation to the amount of smoke that a conventional OWB is going to make!

As long as the prevailing winds stay as usual the closest neighbor is about 2 miles away. if winds are bad his house is 200 yds away! you think this is too close?

 

[flyingcow]

IMO. any kind of outdoor wood boiler that is not a true gasser will be a mistake. CB is not a true gasser.you can buy an EKO and build a small outbuilding completely separate from everything and be further ahead. or look for a UL listed gasser?

 

[maple1]

Aren't most gassifying indoor boilers UL listed?

Speaking for myself - I just want people to be aware of all their choices, and make sure they take everything into account before they make a decision. IMO an OWB would be down there on my personal list of choices - but I also realize everyone has different preferences & priorities & one answer doesn't fit all.

 

[dspoon19]

Just as a side, how many people here pay for wood? And also how much work do you have to do if you buy it or if you can get it for free?

 

[Boil&Toil]

Assuming the gasser costs 2x more than the OWB and I save at max 50% on free wood and that the OWB set up costs 6K and the average life is going to be 15 years, it would "cost" 400 dollars per year for the OWB set up and 800 dollars per year for the gasification set up.

You appear to be assuming (incorrectly, I think) that an indoor boiler has the same lifespan as an outside - and for an outside non-gasifier, I think you are optimistic even at 15 years life, while 20-30 is not atypical for "indoor" versions, IME. Putting the indoor type outdoors (in a building, with storage in the building(s) to be heated) looks like a win to me .vs. most of the outdoor boilers.

And yes, all modern indoor wood boilers are UL listed - even my old smoker, which can typically be found on craigslist for $1000 or less (sometimes much less) - but I still want to de-smoke it before I put it to use. Aside from not wasting wood and polluting the air around my house, there's the delight of not having chimney fires...

 

[flyingcow]

Just as a side, how many people here pay for wood? And also how much work do you have to do if you buy it or if you can get it for free?

I pay $185 processed delivered in the yard. 6 yrs ago i was buying it tree length for $95 a weighted cord. About 2 yrs ago tree length went to $120 a cord. For me and my time, I will have it processed and delivered for $185.

 

[BillsWS]

The price I got from P & M rep for the BL2840 is $7600. The part of the boiler that contains water (water jacket) is replacable on the BL series. I was given the price of $2500 (+ shipping) for a replacement water jacket. I think some of the lower end gasification boilers (indoor) start around $4800 and go up to $12,000 from what I gather.

 

[hobbyheater]

As long as the prevailing winds stay as usual the closest neighbor is about 2 miles away. if winds are bad his house is 200 yds away! you think this is too close?

Interesting thread from a few months ago.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/best-owb-video-i-have-ever-seen.113364/

This is an example of what can be seen on YouTube and there are plenty more. So you will have to decide on what would be a good neighbor distance.
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[martyinmi]

IMO. any kind of outdoor wood boiler that is not a true gasser will be a mistake. CB is not a true gasser.you can buy an EKO and build a small outbuilding completely separate from everything and be further ahead. or look for a UL listed gasser?

You gots to explain yourself here.
A unit that burns all the smoke from the particular species of fuel chosen and efficiently transfers said energy to it's hydronic reservoir with a sub 350 degree exhaust gas temperature certainly qualifies itself as a gasser-in my book anyway.
How differently does your book read?
And FYI, I'm not a huge CB fan.

 

[flyingcow]

I'm just going by the Central Boiler website. They seem to be most prevalent in my area along with hawken energy. The classic 5036 OWB model is $6600. Parts and piping for a complete install will be around $1000. so right around $7600 +/- a few hundred dollars for a complete set up. so 8K to be safe.

marty, this was my response to this above statement. i was referring to CB's claim that they are a gasser. Didn't quote it right. CB is not a gasser as I know it. Trying not to derail the thread.

 

[Mauler]

I have the outdoor econoburn gasser EBO-150. I heat 3000sqft in a well insulated house, we keep it at 75 and use 6-7 cord well seasoned (thanks to this forum I know how to actually season wood) in a shed next to the gasser. My neighbor has the CB 6048 and uses somewhere north of 12 cord for the same size house, (and I think I recall he keeps the house temp a bit lower). We both have 3 kids so lots of hot water use, etc. The econoburn is pressurized which I think helps with not using a plate exchanger but I don't have storage (not sure if I'll bother). Some minor maintenance so far (ashes, creosote, etc) and I'm only in my second season but I haven't had oil delivered in those 2 years and still have half a tank left. This summer I'll give it a proper cleaning but it doesn't seem too involved. I idle alot when I'm not home so it does smoke but I'm on a 7 acres wooded lot, so its not a problem. So far I'm very happy (crosses fingers).

 

[flyingcow]

Haven't seen the Econoburn up close, but it looks like a good OWB. So doesn't the Portage unit.

 

[martyinmi]

flyingcow,
The point(s) that I was trying to make to you are these:
(1)Central Boiler does make a true gasser. (2)They function in the same manner as a Garn, Tarm, Econoburn, etc.
Your post implies that they do not on both accounts.

The title of this post suggests in no uncertain terms that the OP is contemplating whether to choose a conventional OWB or an OWB that is a gasifier. No thread derailment here.

Whether he chooses an indoor unit or an outdoor unit, it should be a gasser, not a conventional.

 

[Mauler]

Haven't seen the Econoburn up close, but it looks like a good OWB. So doesn't the Portage unit.

a quick review of the tarm looks like the basic design is very similar to the econoburn. No surprise as the downdraft concept seems pretty straightforward, except possibly for some control aspects. The outdoor econoburn is simply an indoor gasser with spray on foam insulation with an outhouse shell, not at all like a typical "OWB", which is why I got it. I believe it is the best choice for those who prefer an outdoor unit, although I thought long and hard about the P&M gasser. If I recall the PM is not pressurized which I felt was less desirable. Frankly, I wanted a Garn but couldn't justify the build out for it, now that they have a mini version I'm sure I would have gone that route, if only for the integrated storage.

 

[dspoon19]

Just talked to a neighbor that has an Appalachian stove insert and he's starting into his 5th cord of the year. It's been a bad winter so he said he will probably go the 6 cords. I am pretty confident I can burn 6 cords for the season with an OWB. So if I were to spend the extra $5k ( difference between central boilers gasser and conventional models), besides saving me from gathering 3 free cords of wood, what else would it do for me? Even if it saved me 4 or 5 cords of free wood what would it save for me besides a few hours of time? I can see a tipping point if you were to burn year round to heat dhw or if you lived in a cold climate and burned15 cords a year but is the extra cost worth the small amount I would burn?

There are a lot of considerations to be made and I just want to make best decision possible.

I thought maybe get a owb to start with since it will be a huge savings over lp and pay for itself in the first 2.5 years. Then use part of those savings to invest in a gasser once the owb takes a crap. I just don't know.