Software limiting the torque below 10MPH on the Ford EV helps with that... for better or worse lolI think I would like punching it all the time. Tires would be a problem.
Bolt No ICE
- Thread starter jebatty
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Range confidence continues to grow. Took a 135 mile round trip yesterday with one passenger, full charge. No opportunity to recharge in route. First half was in temps 4-12F and little wind, about 2.8 miles/kw. Second half temps were in the high 30 to low 40F range and 10-15mph cross/headwind, about 3.9 miles/kw. Used heat as needed to be comfortable. Speeds were at limits of 55-60mph. Ended the trip with remaining battery capacity at 48 miles. Used about 3/4 of battery charge. Assuming maximum range at these conditions of 135 + 48 miles (183), battery range was 77% of rated 238 miles.
These results clearly show the effect of temperature and use of heating on battery range.
These results clearly show the effect of temperature and use of heating on battery range.
Just bought a jack and lug wrench for my Bolt. Already had a tire plug kit, a 12V inflator and a can of 'fix a flat'.
There is a space for a full sized spare and jack under the rear cargo floor, which currently has one of those styrofoam organizers in it. Makes the car cheaper and lighter, I guess.
The stock Bolt tires are 'self-sealing' which is great if you hit a nail, but not gonna help if you hit something big or damage the sidewall. And of course, the winter tires that @jebatty and I are running are not self-sealing, and winter is a great time for tire damage and a bad time for being stranded.
So I figure I will carry a summer wheel in the winter, and a winter wheel in the summer as a full size spare. The 50 lbs of gear might hurt range by 1% or maybe 2 miles, but be good for peace of mind on longer trips. Replacement OEM Bolt tires can be hard/slow to source.
Apparently the only no-no is running two different sized tires on the front (drive) wheels...this can overheat the differential. So front flats require a matching rear wheel be moved to the front, and the spare goes on the rear.
The chassis under the Bolt has circular hole jack points rather than the unibody pinch welds seen on most current cars. So the compatible jack is apparently one from any Chevy S10 pickup, available used/salvage with 19mm lugwrench on Ebay for $40 delivered.
EDIT: Scratch that....the under floor space is sized for a compact spare. Not interested. I will stick with me self-seal OEMs, and a plug kit and goo can for my snows.
There is a space for a full sized spare and jack under the rear cargo floor, which currently has one of those styrofoam organizers in it. Makes the car cheaper and lighter, I guess.
The stock Bolt tires are 'self-sealing' which is great if you hit a nail, but not gonna help if you hit something big or damage the sidewall. And of course, the winter tires that @jebatty and I are running are not self-sealing, and winter is a great time for tire damage and a bad time for being stranded.
So I figure I will carry a summer wheel in the winter, and a winter wheel in the summer as a full size spare. The 50 lbs of gear might hurt range by 1% or maybe 2 miles, but be good for peace of mind on longer trips. Replacement OEM Bolt tires can be hard/slow to source.
Apparently the only no-no is running two different sized tires on the front (drive) wheels...this can overheat the differential. So front flats require a matching rear wheel be moved to the front, and the spare goes on the rear.
The chassis under the Bolt has circular hole jack points rather than the unibody pinch welds seen on most current cars. So the compatible jack is apparently one from any Chevy S10 pickup, available used/salvage with 19mm lugwrench on Ebay for $40 delivered.
EDIT: Scratch that....the under floor space is sized for a compact spare. Not interested. I will stick with me self-seal OEMs, and a plug kit and goo can for my snows.
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Ashful
Minister of Fire
Interesting that these come without a spare. My newest car also came without a spare. I wonder if this is going to become the trend?
On the long list of things learned on your way to manhood, changing your own car tire used to be somewhere fairly high on the list. Not to sound like an old curmudgeon, but today that seems to have been replaced with having AAA on speed dial. I don't like it.
edit: @woodgeek, that plug kit and inflator will be useless when you hit one of our typical PA potholes, and suffer the too-common bent rim or blown sidewall. I seem to see that, far more often than nail holes, in shouldered cars today.
On the long list of things learned on your way to manhood, changing your own car tire used to be somewhere fairly high on the list. Not to sound like an old curmudgeon, but today that seems to have been replaced with having AAA on speed dial. I don't like it.
edit: @woodgeek, that plug kit and inflator will be useless when you hit one of our typical PA potholes, and suffer the too-common bent rim or blown sidewall. I seem to see that, far more often than nail holes, in shouldered cars today.
Our Volt doesn't have a spare either. It's been so long since we've had a flat tire that I had forgotten about it. That was about 15 yrs ago and the only flat we've had in at least 40yrs. if not more. Funny thing, I changed my first flat tire at age 14. No one was there to help me. No one showed me how, though I had seen someone do it once before. The owner had left the car in the street after dropping my sister off from babysitting. It was late at night and her husband picked her up. The next day I put on the spare and then drove the car around the block. It was a shift and I had never driven before except steering in my father's lap as a kid, but I had practiced shifting for many days during the summer in an abandoned truck and just did it. Point being, you can teach yourself as long as you have the will to learn.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
You need to visit eastern PA. We have potholes that will swallow a Prius. On some roads, they occur every 150 feet, in spring.
North of us, the roads freeze, and mostly stay frozen. Minimal damage. Far south, they never freeze, no damage. We’re in that MD thru PA belt that seems to freeze every night and thaw every day, thru most of the winter, which just blows the roads apart.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
Yes, I recall, now! You may have cleaner cities and better weather, out there. But like John Spartan visiting the underground, our meager shoulder-less roads -- where speed limits are a mere suggestion -- feel like home.
While driving the Bolt I thought about the regenerative control system: seamless switching between drawing from the battery to propel the car and capturing kinetic energy from the car to charge the batteries when propulsion power was not needed. This type of control system could be very useful for home solar PV systems with battery storage: 1) house demand met first from available PV energy, house demand in excess of PV met second from batteries if SOC sufficient, house demand in excess of PV plus batteries met third from grid; 2) PV energy in excess of house demand first supplied to batteries to bring batteries to full SOC, and second supplied to grid if batteries at full charge.
Maybe this type of control system already exists and is commercially available. If so, I would appreciate info on where to read more about it.
Maybe this type of control system already exists and is commercially available. If so, I would appreciate info on where to read more about it.
CaptSpiff
Minister of Fire
Circus
Feeling the Heat
Chevy says about 4 miles/hr on 120V. This could work well for a "typical" 50 miles/day of driving and plugging it in promptly after the drive. In effect the 120V charger simply would be topping off the battery every day. But for me a "typical" daily drive easily could be 85-155 miles, or 21-40 hours of charge time. Which is why I bought a L2 charger that provides up to 40A/240V, although the Bolt L2 charge rate is 32A. I got the 40A L2 charger thinking another future EV that would charge at the higher rate, or a L2 charger my son could use to his benefit when he gets his Tesla.
After 6 weeks with the Bolt, including temps down to -10F and snow, I remain completely satisfied with the Bolt. Performance has been flawless. The goal of having an EV that could meet up to about 155 miles round trip on a single charge is being fully met, and in fact, I am venturing further than that and moving into the realm of Public DC fast charge stations. Earlier this week I used the Bolt to attend a two day meeting on a round trip of 320 miles, between my home and Minneapolis. I topped off twice using two different DCFC stations, just to learn how to use them. One was GreenLots, pricey, the other ChargePoint, very reasonable. On Wednesday I have a meeting at a location of 210 miles round trip. Depending on temperature and wind conditions, that may be a single charge trip, although the only recharge possibility is at the half way point on a L2 charger, and I likely will take an hour off and add about a 25 mile charge. I don't want to tend up "dead in the water" on the highway at some point before making it home.
Edit: 2388 miles on the Bolt so far.
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DuaeGuttae
Minister of Fire
That’s a lot of miles in six weeks. Glad you got an EV.
One of my children and I spotted a brand new red Bolt at the library earlier this month. It still had the temporary tags and wasn’t covered with pollen, and it was beautiful. We had to walk around it and admire. I thought of both Ruby and Fiona.
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As good as any car I have had. With the 17" wheels it has good clearance, better than our Avalon road cruiser. And I bought a set of winter tires for ice and snow, like we have on the Avalon. We have had winter tires for many years, and I would no longer drive with9out them.
At this rate he'll pass us in a little more than a year. 27,000 miles after 4.75 yrs on the Volt.
The high mileage is the result of living in a rural area, with distances to nearby small towns from 13 - 22 miles, and nearby larger towns 42 - 75 miles. Add to that a volunteer/community lifestyle which involves nearly daily trips to one or more of these towns. For example, activities on Sun/Mon involved 155 miles of travel with the Bolt for weekly grocery shopping plus three meetings: prep for a presentation at clean energy conference tomorrow in a city 100 miles away; planning meeting with the county boards and soil and water conservation districts of two counties on a joint watershed protection plan; planning meeting with the county planning commission on proposed changes to the county land use ordinance.
With the Bolt and our PV system I am thankful that most of these trips now will be 100% fossil carbon free.
With the Bolt and our PV system I am thankful that most of these trips now will be 100% fossil carbon free.
I'm getting quite comfortable with the mileage/range gauge on the Bolt. Took a 204 mile round trip yesterday to a clean energy conference, temps in 30's to low 40's, head/cross-winds at about 15 mph. At the start, range gauge showed full charge and range of 202 miles, +/- about 30 miles as "max' and "min." Only available charge was a 110/120V (8-12A) outlet in the parking ramp at the 1/2 way point, my destination. I drove conservatively, using minimal heat and mostly keeping my speed in the 55-60 mph range. Headlights were on the entire trip. At destination arrival gauge showed 101 miles traveled and 102 miles range availability. When I left the conference and after a few hours of 110/120V charging (8A), the range gauge showed 116 miles range +/- 12 miles. Drove conservatively home, no headlights, and on arrival total distance was 204 miles with 21 miles range still available. I had no apprehension on the return trip because I knew the remaining miles to travel at two checkpoints, one at 70 miles and the other at 42 miles remaining, and at both points sufficient range was shown to be available. The energy report showed +1.5% for driving, -2% for climate control, and -5.5% for temperature.
The take-away is that the range gauge is quite accurate with known temperature and driving habits. A major weather change or unexpected driving conditions (traffic jams, for example) in route could deliver a surprise, but there would be plenty of warning by paying attention to the range gauge and knowing the actual miles remaining to be traveled. Also, while relying on 110/120V charging during a trip for any major addition to range is not reasonable, unless a long parking period is anticipated, a "bump" in charge over a short parking period can be very valuable.
I would like to know what to expect as range moves closer to 0 and how much, if any, extra miles actually might be available to handle an unexpected situation. But operating the Bolt to a fully discharged battery without a plan on what to do to extract a dead Bolt to a charge location is not very practical. Obviously, the best alternative is to be careful not to run the Bolt to 0.
The take-away is that the range gauge is quite accurate with known temperature and driving habits. A major weather change or unexpected driving conditions (traffic jams, for example) in route could deliver a surprise, but there would be plenty of warning by paying attention to the range gauge and knowing the actual miles remaining to be traveled. Also, while relying on 110/120V charging during a trip for any major addition to range is not reasonable, unless a long parking period is anticipated, a "bump" in charge over a short parking period can be very valuable.
I would like to know what to expect as range moves closer to 0 and how much, if any, extra miles actually might be available to handle an unexpected situation. But operating the Bolt to a fully discharged battery without a plan on what to do to extract a dead Bolt to a charge location is not very practical. Obviously, the best alternative is to be careful not to run the Bolt to 0.
![[Hearth.com] Bolt No ICE](https://www.hearth.com/talk/data/attachments/225/225148-cdee653850ad4f2845106c49a9679391.jpg?hash=fQqV-Vobf7 "[Hearth.com] Bolt No ICE")
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pic of my new 1905 electric horseless carriage? just a little before it's time!
![[Hearth.com] Bolt No ICE](https://www.hearth.com/talk/data/attachments/225/225152-34af3aae1124167a1c9db1f420ba9991.jpg?hash=T2332uME-r "[Hearth.com] Bolt No ICE")
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Ashful
Minister of Fire
I drive my 5.7L RAM when I want to conserve fuel, it gets close to 14 mpg. My sedan runs 10 - 12 mpg, depending on distance, terrain, and attitude. My prior coupe never got much better than 8 mpg, and only sat two, so I guess I'm headed in the right direction.
But I admire what jebatty is doing, here. Resources are limited, we can't bury our heads in the sand. Conservation by those who are less interested in fast cars allows those willing to pay to play a temporary free pass to do otherwise. It's all headed in the right direction, there. By the same token, I'll avoid infringing on the limited resource of Spandex, to save it for his bicycle shorts.
Do what makes you happy, folks.
Jeez Jim, that would have been a white knuckler, hyper-miling kinda trip for me. 
I used to slow down in the LEAF in a range pinch, but haven't done that in the Bolt yet. I suppose that I should work out if its faster to fast charge for 5 more minutes or to take five more minutes to get there.....my intuition, is to drive at 70 versus 55, and to spend 5 extra minutes chilling on the charger....hmmm.
I agree that the issue is one of 'margin'. I generally run Apple Maps on a roadtrip, and know my distance to destination (or next DCFC) in real time. I just check the guess-o-meter (GOM) projected range and Apple maps distance remaining and take the difference....30-50 miles....drive like a speed demon, below 25 start to sweat it or slow down, and I would only normally drive less than 15-20 miles of margin if I was within 30 of home.
Similarly, when I am on the DCFC, I put my next stop/charger in the Apple Maps. and I charge at least until I have that much on the GOM + 30.
I find that traffic adds margin (slowing down), while rain and esp snow kill range and eat margin. Since none are predictable, I have found 30 miles a good minimum range margin for me.
An additional factor is topography. My home is 600' above the coastal plain with I-95, Philly, etc. My sense is that this equals about 8-10 miles of range...so the return leg coming home can take 15-20 miles more 'range' than the outbound leg to most destinations. On the HW near my home on the uphill portion, our LEAF would lose 3 miles on the GOM for every mile travelled, esp at 80 mph.
This 30 mile margin is no bigs on a Bolt that goes 200 miles at HW speeds easily, and was a kick in the LEAF that only went 60 miles in the winter at high speed.
I used to slow down in the LEAF in a range pinch, but haven't done that in the Bolt yet. I suppose that I should work out if its faster to fast charge for 5 more minutes or to take five more minutes to get there.....my intuition, is to drive at 70 versus 55, and to spend 5 extra minutes chilling on the charger....hmmm.
I agree that the issue is one of 'margin'. I generally run Apple Maps on a roadtrip, and know my distance to destination (or next DCFC) in real time. I just check the guess-o-meter (GOM) projected range and Apple maps distance remaining and take the difference....30-50 miles....drive like a speed demon, below 25 start to sweat it or slow down, and I would only normally drive less than 15-20 miles of margin if I was within 30 of home.
Similarly, when I am on the DCFC, I put my next stop/charger in the Apple Maps. and I charge at least until I have that much on the GOM + 30.
I find that traffic adds margin (slowing down), while rain and esp snow kill range and eat margin. Since none are predictable, I have found 30 miles a good minimum range margin for me.
An additional factor is topography. My home is 600' above the coastal plain with I-95, Philly, etc. My sense is that this equals about 8-10 miles of range...so the return leg coming home can take 15-20 miles more 'range' than the outbound leg to most destinations. On the HW near my home on the uphill portion, our LEAF would lose 3 miles on the GOM for every mile travelled, esp at 80 mph.
This 30 mile margin is no bigs on a Bolt that goes 200 miles at HW speeds easily, and was a kick in the LEAF that only went 60 miles in the winter at high speed.
I wanted to like this, but couldn't quite push the button. Sorry.
I decided years ago that you can't force anybody to do anything, so it was best to neither try nor to even think about trying. I have not changed this opinion.
If you want somebody to do something different, make the different thing attractive and compelling and then see what they decide with their free will and get over yourself.
If I think the world needs to electrify transportation, I am not going to do that by regulation, politics, waving a sign or trolling folks. It will happen when EVs are better and cheaper than other cars, with a lag, and not before. And then there will still be stragglers, and that's ok. And that day is nigh.
On a more positive note, I disagree with the post...I don't think resources (other than human patience and attention) are particularly limited. I buy the thesis that engineers are really good at substituting materials and designs as needed, and that the world is both really effing big and pretty unexplored underground.
But unlike the unimaginable bulk of the earth's crust, solid and drillable and mineable to a considerable depth, the earths atmosphere is a whiff of a thing, equivalent to just 10m of solid thickness if you froze it all down. And all the energy that runs our planet and its climate has to flow through its remarkable transparency. And so we hit a limit when we try to dump 1000 km^3 of CO2 gas into it every year for more than a century.
I actually think that when we figure out how to have an econosphere and an agrosphere which are neutral to the delicate atmosphere, we will live in a perpetual life of plenty and guilt-free power on demand...the way many of us recall the 'good old days' were, but sustainable, and that will wipe away the old battles about car size, hp, recycling rates and whether we should wear cardigans in the winter or not.
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