Bolt No ICE

[Seasoned Oak]

We've always bought our cars outright, never leased. Someone here (woodgeek or peakbagger?) suggested leasing when I got the Volt. I didn't and was wrong. Compared to the Prius, the Volt's resale price has dropped fairly sharply. This has happened to the Leaf as well. If I buy another leading edge car I will either lease new or buy a lease return. Technology is changing too rapidly in the auto world. As vehicles go autonomous, it won't even make sense to own a car for many.

I like the lease deals when tech is changing so fast. I want new truck but would like a truck with bolt battery and a small engine for recharge ,a VOLT style truck. It dont exist now but in a few years it might. Probably hard to find cheap lease on a volt as the leasing companies now know the resale drops fast as well. THe flip side is you can pick up a nice used volt for 10 or12K ,im tempted!

 

[begreen]

I like the lease deals when tech is changing so fast. I want new truck but would like a truck with bolt battery and a small engine for recharge ,a VOLT style truck. It dont exist now but in a few years it might. Probably hard to find cheap lease on a volt as the leasing companies now know the resale drops fast as well. THe flip side is you can pick up a nice used volt for 10 or12K ,im tempted!

Actually, they do exist, but only for commercial leasing. The VIA is based on Volt tech and by the reports I've read quite a nice performer. (broken link removed) Workhorse also makes interesting electric trucks. http://workhorse.com/

I've got a couple friends that have scored nice deals on used Volts with only 24-30K miles on them. They are happy campers.

 

[woodgeek]

The issue re pickups is that you will prob want 200 kWh or more for heavy duty and towing capacity, and that is gonna cost >$30k just for the battery in 2018.

Once light-duty cars and CUVs drive down battery costs...then we will get more SUVs and pickups.

 

[Ashful]

The issue re pickups is that you will prob want 200 kWh or more for heavy duty and towing capacity, and that is gonna cost >$30k just for the battery in 2018.

Once light-duty cars and CUVs drive down battery costs...then we will get more SUVs and pickups.

If the EV pickups get sub-3 second 0-60 times, I might get back down to owning just one vehicle.

 

[begreen]

The issue re pickups is that you will prob want 200 kWh or more for heavy duty and towing capacity, and that is gonna cost >$30k just for the battery in 2018.

Once light-duty cars and CUVs drive down battery costs...then we will get more SUVs and pickups.

The VIA trucks and vans are hybrids like the Volt but with a bigger genset and 23kW battery. That gives it good 350 mile range, great economy and all-electric local driving for about 40 miles.
(broken link removed)

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Actually, they do exist, but only for commercial leasing. The VIA is based on Volt tech and by the reports I've read quite a nice performer. (broken link removed) Workhorse also makes interesting electric trucks. http://workhorse.com/
I've got a couple friends that have scored nice deals on used Volts with only 24-30K miles on them. They are happy campers.

Iv known about Viamotors for quite sometime. If i could get a good used truck converted for a reasonable amount i may do that, but to add electric drive to a brand new vehicle like via does puts it in the price stratosphere that only fleet users can justify. As someone who puts only 5000,miles year on their main family vehicle, electrification at those prices would not be economically justifiable. Perhaps just for the fun of it performance wise ,but not for the economies.

 

[begreen]

It'd be a great shop project to strip a Volt down to it's chassis and put a light truck body on it.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

It'd be a great shop project to strip a Volt down to it's chassis and put a light truck body on it.

Plus 1000. Like a colorado or S10 body i would think. No more aerodynamics ,but an interesting project.

 

[jebatty]

I'm bringing the Bolt to the dealer on Tuesday, four days from now, to have the battery calibration system fix applied. Chevy describes the issue as "a condition where the calibration will not detect the difference in the state of charge between the cell groups of the battery.... [and failure] to provide sufficient warning prior to a battery cell low voltage condition, which may result in loss of propulsion." After searching various forums, I remain confused, and I'm not certain whether this is a battery issue, a calibration issue, or both. As I near 5000 miles on my Bolt, everything seems to be OK. Several times I have operated the Bolt down to less than 30 miles of range remaining, with warmer weather I am regularly seeing an estimated range in excess of the rated range of 238 miles, and I have not detected any evidence of a problem. But it would be a real bummer if the range estimate was 50 miles remaining (or less/or more) and suddenly find the battery depleted and "lose propulsion."

Chevy also is providing an over the air (OTA) software fix on the "infotainment" system, those are the systems that operate through the touchscreen. I'm not aware that I have received this fix yet. It is to address several issues, including one where the screen goes dark or freezes. I have had one instance of a screen freeze, which corrected after 2-3 shutdowns and restarts of the Bolt. The freeze left several systems available only through the screen frozen in their then existing state, either on or off or at a particular setting. Reminds me of the "blue screen of death" which has plagued some system software on computers for years, but which I have never experienced. This single screen freeze is the only computer/electrical/mechanical issue I have had with the Bolt so far, other than a windshield washer fluid leak and a driver seat adjustment fix, both existing at the time of delivery of the car, and both of which were quickly fixed by the dealer.

 

[Ashful]

Good news, jebatty.

On your note of infotainment systems, I’m glad to see that automakers have been acknowledging some of the customer dissatisfaction with making so many of the cars features only available thru infotainment systems, as well as some of the new studies I’ve seen mentioned in the news about their negative effect on driver distraction. I’m not “old”, but I guess I sound like it when I complain about the loss of inherent eyes-off tactile feedback of knobs and buttons, with the move to touch screens. Now I have to take my eyes off the road to tune the radio or change the cabin temperature, functions I used to handle blindly by feel.

Some cars are worse or better than others, here. Both of my cars have most of my most-commonly used functions duplicated as old-school buttons on dash or steering wheel, a relatively well thought-out arrangement, but I’ve seen others where the most common functions are buried levels deep in touch screen menus. Hopefully customer feedback is strong enough on this to drive them toward more sensible compromises.

On the freezing, I had issues with the 8.4” uconnect system freezing on my 2015 RAM, but then realized it was because my 64 GB sdcard full of music exceeded the indexing capability of that system. I split the content into two 32 GB cards that I can swap out, and it’s totally resolved, but the issue did create a few days of severely distracted driving, until it was resolved. The same system in my 2016 car has no issues with 64 GB cards, so improvements were made in the interim year.

 

[begreen]

So far in 5 yrs no screen freeze-ups with the Volt. There have been hardware issues and dealer issues when we first got the car, but those have been long ago settled. UI design is a pet peever. I totally agree with Ashful about some vehicles having lousy user interfaces and some place way too much dependency on a touch screen for mission critical controls, like climate control. My Ford truck's controls are definitely in this category. The infotainment menus and button access for traversing options are not good. Heater controls were grouped by a visual designer disregarding ergonomics and function.

Poor user interface to me is a major strike against Tesla until their cars are fullly autonomous. The last thing one wants to do when in a downpour at crowded freeway speeds is to have to take one's eyes off the road in order set the defroster properly to defog the windshield.

 

[woodgeek]

I have updated my Bolt infotainment system from a file I got off the net which I put on a USB stick and plugged into the car. I think I had one freeze up total before that. You can reboot it by pressing and holding the home button and one of the adjacent buttons for a few seconds. Easier than restarting the car. You can also reboot it while in motion without worry. The dash stays up.

As for the traction battery issue, it is simple. About 1% of 2017/8 Bolts have one or more 'weak' cells, that need to be replaced under warranty. In a perfect world, the car would detect the weak cell in advance (like days or 100s of miles) of it becoming a problem, and you would go to a dealer.

Unfortunately, while the battery management system correctly functions with healthy batteries, it does NOT consistently detect the weak cell fault until the cell has deteriorated to the point that propulsion is limited.

IOW, you want a 'check engine' light kinda indicator for this...like 'get traction battery serviced soon'. Instead, the car just loses drive power (but not control) with a message saying something 'drive power reduced'....potentially while you are in motion. An obvious safety and stranding issue.

So, the software update makes the battery controller better at detecting the rare fault...so you get some warning. How much warning, they aren't saying.

I'm at 9000 miles and not worried about it. We'll do the update, but on our schedule. The wife just did a 270 highway mile drive with two short FC stops and got back home with electronic fumes.

I don't think we have a weak cell right now.

The lore from folks this has happened to is that the guess o meter does some weird stuff before the fault shows itself...like it shows more than normal range per SOC, or looks like it charged faster than you expected.

 

[woodgeek]

Poor user interface to me is a major strike against Tesla until their cars are fullly autonomous. The last thing one wants to do when in a downpour at crowded freeway speeds is to have to take one's eyes off the road in order set the defroster properly to defog the windshield.

The Bolt UI is based on the Volt one, of course. It is a little annoying, some climate controls are buttons, and some are on the screen. Kinda like real and virtual buttons right next to each other blending the two. That you get used to.

My gripe is that when in 'R', as when I am backing out of my garage, all the on screen buttons are gone, replaced with the rear view camera. I usually like to set up the climate control while I am stopped at the end of my driveway waiting for there to be no oncoming cars. And I can't. I have to do it before I leave my garage OR after I am underway (e.g. at the next stoplight). They could've made the camera image a little smaller (the display is 10" wide) and left the buttons there.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Im wondering if ill be able to pick up a good used 4 YR old Bolt in 2022 for 10K like the Volt is now. If gas prices continue on this trajectory ,probably not.

 

[begreen]

The Bolt UI is based on the Volt one, of course. It is a little annoying, some climate controls are buttons, and some are on the screen. Kinda like real and virtual buttons right next to each other blending the two. That you get used to.

My gripe is that when in 'R', as when I am backing out of my garage, all the on screen buttons are gone, replaced with the rear view camera. I usually like to set up the climate control while I am stopped at the end of my driveway waiting for there to be no oncoming cars. And I can't. I have to do it before I leave my garage OR after I am underway (e.g. at the next stoplight). They could've made the camera image a little smaller (the display is 10" wide) and left the buttons there.

The first gen Volts had all climate controls either via the touch screen or the bewildering array (24?) of capacitance touch buttons. My wife still inadvertently hits the wrong buttons, especially with gloves on in the winter. Owners raised their voices and to their credit Chevy listened. The next gen Volt lost the cap touch panel and had the climate control group in analog controls. It's a much better setup. A well design set of controls will have tactile as well as visual cues so that one can change important settings without taking eyes off the road.

The original Volt touch screen UI was proprietary, the new one is Apple Play/Android Auto. I haven't tried that out yet.

 

[byQ]

Im wondering if ill be able to pick up a good used 4 YR old Bolt in 2022 for 10K like the Volt is now. If gas prices continue on this trajectory ,probably not.

By that time solid state battery technology will be arising. Many will probably want to upgrade to this technology - less weight, more range, safer, and fast charge times. This could cause the lithium battery technology to lose followers. So an "old battery system" car could probably be had at a reasonable price. It will probably be a bit later than 2022 before solid state takes the reins.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Just the yearly drop in Li-ion prices alone should help.

 

[woodgeek]

Im wondering if ill be able to pick up a good used 4 YR old Bolt in 2022 for 10K like the Volt is now. If gas prices continue on this trajectory ,probably not.

I'll vote maybe. The Bolt is a far more capable and durable vehicle than the LEAF, by virtue of its larger battery size and higher efficiency. I did some research and found some nice sources that predicted a depreciation curve between the LEAF and that of a mid-size ICE car...it came out at ~$15k after 3 years, in 2020. So maybe you WILL get one for $10k after five years.

I used this residual value to decide to purchase versus lease.

 

[CaptSpiff]

Not much tech specs, but the Electric Vehicle scene is starting to make me into a believer. Looks like the golf cart designers are out and the adults have entered the room. I can't imagine how nice the EV's will be in 2022 (4 years), but I see the battery (range) capacity going the path of computer RAM, and we'll laugh at today's sub 200 mile EV's.

https://www.greencarreports.com/new...all-electric-luxury-crossover#image=100648553

The only thing missing is cup holders.

 

[woodgeek]

I can't imagine how nice the EV's will be in 2022 (4 years), but I see the battery (range) capacity going the path of computer RAM, and we'll laugh at today's sub 200 mile EV's.

https://www.greencarreports.com/new...all-electric-luxury-crossover#image=100648553

The only thing missing is cup holders.

I'm already laughing at sub-200 mile EVs.

In the warmer weather...by Bolt thinks it can go 260-310 miles.

 

[sportbikerider78]

Good news, jebatty.

On your note of infotainment systems, I’m glad to see that automakers have been acknowledging some of the customer dissatisfaction with making so many of the cars features only available thru infotainment systems, as well as some of the new studies I’ve seen mentioned in the news about their negative effect on driver distraction. I’m not “old”, but I guess I sound like it when I complain about the loss of inherent eyes-off tactile feedback of knobs and buttons, with the move to touch screens. Now I have to take my eyes off the road to tune the radio or change the cabin temperature, functions I used to handle blindly by feel.

All I want is a car touchscreen to mirror my cell phone. I think 100% of all car manufacturers entertainment systems suck horribly. Merc, BMW, Audi, Infiniti, GM, all of them. They are all basically outdated in 2 years as well!
Knowing this, they would be wise to make a module that could be updated. But, the automotive industry has always lagged technology by 5-10 years.

 

[woodgeek]

This is what Apple CarPlay and Android Auto do.

Unfortunately, 90% of apps won't run on the car screen....only a subset of approved ones.

 

[Ashful]

This is what Apple CarPlay and Android Auto do.

Unfortunately, 90% of apps won't run on the car screen....only a subset of approved ones.

We don’t need you playing Angry Birds or watching Netflix, while driving. ;-)

 

[begreen]

This is what Apple CarPlay and Android Auto do.

Unfortunately, 90% of apps won't run on the car screen....only a subset of approved ones.

Is one of them Waze?

 

[woodgeek]

Is one of them Waze?

Waze is ok on Android, but oddly, not allowed on Apple CarPlay (its a Google product).