BK Ashford 30 Install

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

What do you mean closing the bypass too early? It's staying well active. I don't think it matters if the bypass is opened or closed. Either warming it up while inactive or after an active reload.

It ran great today after that smokey startup. House stayed at 70°F 7:30am to 8:15pm, 22°F outside and still active.

Do you really need 15-30min on full open or just good flames going? I could probably get the whole box nicely charred at 60-75% once the wood starts lighting because the air won't turn down much until it's up to temp.

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

Ah. So just checked the door gasket, it was a little loose. The top fastener slipped a little and was not that tight. Just shifted the tensioner and cranked it down. I think that was the problem. There is a good flame but it is not igniting the whole box; i.e. much more under control.

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

So I had the stove set ~55% and it made a lot of creo smell now 2hrs into the burn cycle. The flame didn't even go out. Wasn't sure at first because there is a small amount of paint smell when the flue was hot. This definitely seems to be from the cat probe area again. So I hope I was just a little too low on the air and I'm not back to my original problem. If this repeats at 60% or above, this stove is going in the garbage! I'm going to be so outraged if this stove is still smelling during normal usage.

 

[Ashful]

What do you mean closing the bypass too early? It's staying well active. I don't think it matters if the bypass is opened or closed. Either warming it up while inactive or after an active reload.

This statement is so far wrong, in so many ways, that I assume I must be misreading you. Please explain.

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

This statement is so far wrong, in so many ways, that I assume I must be misreading you. Please explain.

Yes sorry. I was stating that firebox smoke was emitted with or w/o the bypass open.

I'm pretty sure that issue is resolved by tightening the door. The much more concerning problem is that it may have been masking the original creo problem when the stove is air is reduced down. I think some extra air was sucking in the door and keeping the draft higher. It certainly is controlling stove temp and flames better last night but have to experiment some to see if the creo smell issue was actually fixed by this stovepipe rebuild.

 

[Ashful]

Yes sorry. I was stating that firebox smoke was emitted with or w/o the bypass open.

I'm pretty sure that issue is resolved by tightening the door. The much more concerning problem is that it may have been masking the original creo problem when the stove is air is reduced down. I think some extra air was sucking in the door and keeping the draft higher. It certainly is controlling stove temp and flames better last night but have to experiment some to see if the creo smell issue was actually fixed by this stovepipe rebuild.

Got it. It looks like the guys here have gotten the issues with your setup resolved, it might be time to contact BKVP directly, and see what they can do on their end to help you get the creo smell resolved. They have helped several others with the same situation, and I believe they’ve resolved all but one or two of those that have turned up here.

 

[lsucet]

Yes sorry. I was stating that firebox smoke was emitted with or w/o the bypass open.

I'm pretty sure that issue is resolved by tightening the door. The much more concerning problem is that it may have been masking the original creo problem when the stove is air is reduced down. I think some extra air was sucking in the door and keeping the draft higher. It certainly is controlling stove temp and flames better last night but have to experiment some to see if the creo smell issue was actually fixed by this stovepipe rebuild.

I will recommend going to your lower setting on steps, not one time deal. Example, from wide open to 4 o'clock after awhile to 3 o'clock, like that till your final low setting. That helps. I have the princess and if i burn hot like i do and turn it low one time deal i get a little smell, nothing bad. I have to be real close to it and look for it but nothing around the house. Doing it on steps, no smell at all.

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

I had no smell running on high with 10lbs tonight. It nicely held the STT at 300°F. Now the gasket is fixed we won't rush the air down. I think that was the problem. We need to get used to the adjustment w/o the gasket leaking. My wife kept smelling the gasket leak and cranked it to 75% or 60% minutes after light up. I will be a little more careful and slowly ease it until I find this creo point. It could be just below 75%.
The kids woke me up all last night; I'll be a little more patient...

 

[Ashful]

A few here posted a theory that the gasket can become soaked with creosote, and emit a creo smell. The reason I mention it is that I believe these guys only had the issue on low burns with less than optimal wood, and you seem to be only having the issue on low burns. I don't remember your wood situation.

These two or three guys were convinced they were smelling hot creosote on the gasket, and NOT smoke leaking from the stove.

Anyway, I think most of them eventually got that issue resolved, so you may want to search out those threads and read up on it. It was all last season (2017/18).

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

So last nights 2/3 load looks like it could finish a 12+hr burn time set at ~65%. Temp downstairs is 72 degrees, but there is a little creo smell upstairs when I checked 5hrs in. I will try slightly higher today, about 70%. BK's theory could be right about the exterior chimney getting too cold, that and/or my second 30° offset (which should have been 15°s) by the roof is still screwing the draft a little. Performance is great though and I can load N-S now. That is such an improvement.

Wood is mostly very good. The new cord of ash is large 5lbers at 15% MC. I'm throwing in a couple beeches which have some wetter tips at 30% but otherwise 18%. Once I found out I left the rest of that small stash for next year.

Thank you guys for the ongoing support of this saga! I will try contacting BK from here if they have some advice about how to improve creo emissions at the lower burn settings. Maybe there is some type of temporary insulation for the chimney as a test before going all in on a chase.

 

[SpaceBus]

So last nights 2/3 load looks like it could finish a 12+hr burn time set at ~65%. Temp downstairs is 72 degrees, but there is a little creo smell upstairs when I checked 5hrs in. I will try slightly higher today, about 70%. BK's theory could be right about the exterior chimney getting too cold, that and/or my second 30° offset (which should have been 15°s) by the roof is still screwing the draft a little. Performance is great though and I can load N-S now. That is such an improvement.

Wood is mostly very good. The new cord of ash is large 5lbers at 15% MC. I'm throwing in a couple beeches which have some wetter tips at 30% but otherwise 18%. Once I found out I left the rest of that small stash for next year.

Thank you guys for the ongoing support of this saga! I will try contacting BK from here if they have some advice about how to improve creo emissions at the lower burn settings. Maybe there is some type of temporary insulation for the chimney as a test before going all in on a chase.

I think with the inherently lower flue gas temps of a cat stove you will benefit a lot from an insulated chase. For a while I wondered if this was all worth it when I had stove issues. Now that we are at the coldest part of the season so far here, I can say with absolute certainty this is all worth it. Nothing beats wood heat.

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

Just kind of nearly stalled again from too small splits and got some creo smell from 75% setting. At this point my choices are insulation or garbage. I'm not sure if I'm willing to go searching for another stove and go through a whole new round of curing next season to find out if it's spraying smoke into my house.

 

[Ashful]

That’s frustrating. I commiserate with you. An insulated chase might help, but it’s hard to recommend something that will take so much time and money, on the slight chance it might fix the problem. I think those stating it will are making some assumptions, and maybe they’re right, but it’s not any guarantee.

 

[Akon]

Sucks you're having such a tough time. If you need someone to haul it off to the dump, I'll do it free of charge. ;-)

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

Just stalled again at 80% setting and 32°F out. Covered the whole room in creo smoke. I just lucked out the first couple days because of the 20°F weather. There is no actual improvement of the root issue. Will stop complaining to you guys. Thanks for all of the support. Watch out for it on the classified page Akon...

 

[Nigel459]

...
Thank you guys for the ongoing support of this saga! I will try contacting BK from here if they have some advice about how to improve creo emissions at the lower burn settings. Maybe there is some type of temporary insulation for the chimney as a test before going all in on a chase.

Later same day...

...Will stop complaining to you guys. Thanks for all of the support. Watch out for it on the classified page Akon...

What did I miss? What did BK say?

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

@Nigel459
I haven't contacted BK again. Last time two of them told me to get a chase and then come back to them. Don't think they'll say anything different. Dishing out $5K with $500/yr heat savings is going to be a tough sell. After this load stalled at 80% air setting I have low hopes of this stove working properly. Basically back to 3hr burn times or 8hr burns with the house above 80°F. Unfortunately I've put myself in a situation where no other party will claim responsibility.

 

[maple1]

If the warmer outside temp made it worse, that sounds like inadequate draft.

 

[begreen]

I'm very sorry this has turned out to be such a hassle for you. You certainly have tried hard to make it work. With almost 25 ft of vertical rise one would not expect draft to be an issue and telling you now to put a chase around it is BS, especially considering it works poorly even in mild weather.

 

[lsucet]

Is the tstat working correctly? Are you sure when you turn the dial, the shaft is turning too? What if the knob is not tight to the shaft?
Just some ideas on top of my head.

 

[Ashful]

I'm very sorry this has turned out to be such a hassle for you. You certainly have tried hard to make it work. With almost 25 ft of vertical rise one would not expect draft to be an issue and telling you now to put a chase around it is BS, especially considering it works poorly even in mild weather.

Agreed, but we don't really need to debate it, it takes all of $50 and 5 minutes to properly MEASURE your draft. That would settle any debate on how good or bad his draft is, but not whether draft is actually the cause of his trouble.

I feel bad we weren't able to help, but understand the OP's position. You win some, you lose some.

 

[Ludlow]

So cats really are dogs!

 

[Woody Stover]

So cats really are dogs!

You might be over-generalizing there, podner.

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

I was wondering about the tstat as well. I don't think it's slipping; it is very sensitive. It almost seems like it closes too hard at higher temperatures, snuffs out the flame and kills the draft. I guess it should normally lose the flames at some medium setting.

It has been in the 20's so I needed it running at 80% to stay warm. Now it looks like we are back to 30's and partial E-W loads to try making it through the night.

I will look at measuring the draft, but having a little trouble figuring out how to do the pipe connections without drilling a huge hole in my already imperfect chimney. I'd guess I'm at or above spec with full open, but when up to temp and/or stat reduced I'm getting close to no draft. Just seems to be dying and stalling very easily with a very hot flue. Surface temps of dsp are > 275°F on high.

Second, I noticed my bypass lever is closing about 30 degrees down where before it was about 0 degrees. It now creaks and clicks at the end of the travel. Could something be slipping?

 

[SpaceBus]

I hate to be that guy, but I think your wood had too much moisture. The only way you are killing a fire below 80% draft with 20'+ chimney is with marginal wood. This is my first year of burning full time and I have this issue too. Try getting some bio bricks or similar and see if you still have the issue. I need very little draft for those little guys to take off and provide a ton of heat.