2022-2023 BK everything thread

[moresnow]

From the looks of the measurements it appears either?

@BKVP or any other happy BK Owners im thinking about switching over to an Ashford 20 . I was wondering are these a N/S or E/W loading stoves and which do you prefer.

Thanks

Running a 20 series here for some time. N/S loaded every time. I cut at 16" and fail on the short side if anything. Works as advertised. Any questions feel free to PM or post.

 

[BKVP]

@BKVP or any other happy BK Owners im thinking about switching over to an Ashford 20 . I was wondering are these a N/S or E/W loading stoves and which do you prefer.

Thanks

Either is correct. However, N/S allows for more complete loading to fullest possible volume. The glass also seems to stay cleaner with the air being able to better flow in and through the fuel load. As well, very unlikely a log will roll forward and impact the glass door, causing breakage.

 

[Highbeam]

Either is correct. However, N/S allows for more complete loading to fullest possible volume. The glass also seems to stay cleaner with the air being able to better flow in and through the fuel load. As well, very unlikely a log will roll forward and impact the glass door, causing breakage.

I can't imagine why anybody would want to load E/W when the stove allows N/S loading. Unless they previously cut a lot of firewood that would only fit E/W. For the reasons above and more, N/S is just a superior way to load a stove. If you have a side door then of course things are different since the lines blur between N/S and E/W.

 

[dafattkidd]

I can't imagine why anybody would want to load E/W when the stove allows N/S loading. Unless they previously cut a lot of firewood that would only fit E/W. For the reasons above and more, N/S is just a superior way to load a stove. If you have a side door then of course things are different since the lines blur between N/S and E/W.

I actually really like loading EW in my Ashford 25 insert. If I need a lot of heat NS packed to the gills is the way to go. But I rarely have needed that kind of heat this winter. I’m finding I can stretch a smaller load longer when I load EW with a big hardwood log in the back.

I’m still learning the unit, so my opinion on this may change over time.

 

[Oakey]

Thanks for the replys and help.I am wanting my next stove to have the option of north south for the reasons mentioned and all the comments help me make my decision even easier . Im doing pretty well with the stove i have, just want a little more . Most likely it would be for next burn season . Although if someone had one in stock i could be persauded into getting one now . Looks like there is a bit of a lead time so im just trying to be proactive and plan for next season .

 

[Ashful]

I actually really like loading EW in my Ashford 25 insert.

Never really looked at the inserts, but aren't they shallower than they are wide, so as to actually favor E/W loading?

The BK30's take an 18" split. whether loaded E/W or N/S, the firebox floor is basically square.

 

[kennyp2339]

My princess is going to be 10yrs old next year, I think I got in 2014, could be 2015 tho, either way lots of life left in that stove with no real issues other then the normal wear.
Point here is, if BK would develop a stove with a design of an ashford (I like the convective jacket design) but with a purpose of 3.5 cu ft with 20 or 22” deep / long firebox for the sole purpose of N/S loading, I’d prob buy that as a replacement.

 

[QuarryHouse]

I actually really like loading EW in my Ashford 25 insert. If I need a lot of heat NS packed to the gills is the way to go. But I rarely have needed that kind of heat this winter. I’m finding I can stretch a smaller load longer when I load EW with a big hardwood log in the back.

I’m still learning the unit, so my opinion on this may change over time.

Same here. Lower level stack E-W has gotten me to my first 24 hour burns with my Chinook 20. Biggest log E-W in the back, smaller in front. Don't put a round long in front. Second level, N-S, round logs OK. The air intake is in the front (at least in my stove) and having a front E-W log blocking some of the airflow leads to (I think) delayed burning of the rear logs, stretching the burn time in milder weather like this winter.

 

[DonTee]

Question for you guys. Maybe it’s been mentioned before.

On my Princess I get a rattling or metal on metal sound from my fans sometimes. It only happens when I’m running the stove on a lower heat setting (like overnight), and then I turn the temp control up. Say when the flue temp is around 300 and then I turn the stove up to 450 or above.

I can press on certain parts of the fan housing (the ducts that go up to the top of the stove) and the rattling stops.

All the screws that hold the fan ducts on are tight. And it only rattles during the scenario above. So is there anything I can do? Put some little fiber washers in somewhere etc?

Basically it will rattle until I either turn the stove back down, or the stove heats up enough that whatever is expanding is done. Which could be 20-30 minutes.

The fans still work well, but it’s just annoying.

 

[kennyp2339]

The fans still work well, but it’s just annoying.

ever very once in a while I get a rattle, I do the red neck repair and give a quick what to the side of the squirrel cage, seems to work for me at least.

 

[DonTee]

I’m thinking maybe mine rattles where the fan ducts connect to the top of the stove. It seems like I can press on either side and stop the rattle.

I try to keep up with cleaning and vacuuming the fans. This time of year they’re running 24/7.

 

[Highbeam]

I’m thinking maybe mine rattles where the fan ducts connect to the top of the stove. It seems like I can press on either side and stop the rattle.

I try to keep up with cleaning and vacuuming the fans. This time of year they’re running 24/7.

Like any rattle, assuming it’s not caused by a fixable out of balance condition like a mass in one part of the fan, you need to find the thing banging into the other thing and isolate them. Luckily it sounds like the rattle is constant so you can poke around until you find it.

Mine never rattle so I have no specific solution.

24/7 wow. Luckily my stove never needs the fans to do the job. I wouldn’t like to have to listen to fans full time. My barn stove has a monster blower setup than runs anytime the stove is hot so I understand that some applications really benefit from forced air.

 

[DonTee]

I have the fan on pretty much any time I have the stove running. Once it’s up to temp of course.

It will heat the house without the fan, but the heat is much more even with it running.

The fan is usually on low to med. I have so much noise in my house that the fan isn’t even noticed.
7 birds, 3 dogs, 4 kids.....

So what can I use to isolate the duct from the top of the stove? Maybe some thin door gasket material?

 

[Highbeam]

I have the fan on pretty much any time I have the stove running. Once it’s up to temp of course.

It will heat the house without the fan, but the heat is much more even with it running.

The fan is usually on low to med. I have so much noise in my house that the fan isn’t even noticed.
7 birds, 3 dogs, 4 kids.....

So what can I use to isolate the duct from the top of the stove? Maybe some thin door gasket material?

Aluminum foil, layers if needed.

Automotive gasket material. You used to be able to buy sheets of it.

Depending on where the rattle is you could even use paper or cardboard.

 

[Highbeam]

Do you all suppose that we could dump the catch all BK thread now that we have our own forum section?

 

[NHWS]

Aluminum foil, layers if needed.

Automotive gasket material. You used to be able to buy sheets of it.

Depending on where the rattle is you could even use paper or cardboard.

Maybe brass shim stock. Inexpensive, can be cut with ordinary sissors.

 

[JPS]

So did that have any effect on smoke output? I burn softwoods and find the BK makes more smoke than I would like, especially at the early stages. If the better sealing from a locked down bypass made a big difference I’d be interested.

Like you @Highbeam, I too burn mostly softwood (hemlock) and am concerned about the amount of smoke I get in the early (3h into the burn and on and off afterwards) stages of the burn. I read, some get zero smoke after 30min after closing bypass. I am open to suggestions.

Checking in a week later, I didn't have much time to look at the top of the chimney during daylight until the weekend.

There is definitely a marked initial improvement with the bypass fully latched, within a minute I can see the difference between the smoke plume with the bypass engaged and with the catalyst engaged, where before it seemed like a more gradual reduction. That being said, on startup and reloads, it still feels like the cat is getting overwhelmed by smoke output from the firebox. I tested with both white pine and red oak, and the pine is 'worse', but for both there is still an easily noticeable smoke plume for a good hour or even a bit more after initially engaging the cat. Leaving the thermostat at or near full for the first 30 minutes makes for greater smoke volume until it gets turned down. Quickly turning the thermostat down to a temp that will stabilize the cat thermometer around 2 o'clock after a reload still has an easily noticeable plume, though less smoke than if I left it full blast and the cat thermometer was at 4 o'clock.

A few operation questions:
The manual suggests leaving the thermostat at wide open for 20-30 minutes after engaging the cat. Is this primarily to ensure the fire gets well established to make sure you don't stall out the fire/cat, or because it is necessary for some less obvious reason? On a cold start or reload when the cat is inactive and I really load up with pine, I've sometimes been turning down the tstat a bit before the cat gets into the active zone because my flue gas temps are getting close to unsafe levels before I can get the cat engaged. When I've left the tstat around 4-5o'clock my flue gases have stayed much safer while the cat works its way to active, and if I leave the tstat there when I engage the Cat, the fire and cat don't have any noticeable issues burning and rising up to the higher side of the operating range. 30 minutes on high also really cuts into burn times for me.

I'm seeing flue gas temps in the stove pipe range from 450 when my cat thermometer is reading 85-90% to around 300 when the cat is at around 50%. is this good/appropriate? I've seen commentary on these forums that you want to be aiming for 400 flue gas temps to avoid creosote build-up in the chimney, and I wasn't sure if that was a universal guideline, or if things were different between a cat and tube-style stove.

I've had a pretty frustrating experience burning wood this winter so far. Some of it my own fault (not fully engaging the bypass lever), and some of it from a bad chimney liner install, and after having a chimney fire, and I'm trying to make sure I'm minimizing my creosote accumulation as much as possible.

 

[kennyp2339]

@JPS I think your starting to over think things a bit, its ok to have concerns, but the fiddling creates distrust and poor user feedback experience. You flue gases are fine, remember the higher efficiency stoves will have cooler flue gases due to more heat going into the room rather than up the stack. The cat probe needle seems to wander like mine throughout the burn, once the fire is going, the needle will climb to the 2-3 o'clock position, hang there for a bit then settle towards noon, later in the burn it will slide back to 10 o'clock or so, sometimes theres a bump to higher needle settings depending on if the blower is running or not and the fuel load gets lower, the t-stat automatically opens up sending more air since its calling for heat.
Cold stove start up seems fine, you may want to cut down the time of running fully open though, sounds like your wood is off gassing fast and hence the additional smoke. On hot reloads I generally down even tough the t-stat as long as the cat probe is still above active zone, I just load, close the door and by-pass, the stove will be cruising within 15min or so. But I'm using an established wood supply that has between 14-16% moisture content.

 

[Ashful]

Question for you guys. Maybe it’s been mentioned before.

On my Princess I get a rattling or metal on metal sound from my fans sometimes. It only happens when I’m running the stove on a lower heat setting (like overnight), and then I turn the temp control up. Say when the flue temp is around 300 and then I turn the stove up to 450 or above.

I can press on certain parts of the fan housing (the ducts that go up to the top of the stove) and the rattling stops.

All the screws that hold the fan ducts on are tight. And it only rattles during the scenario above. So is there anything I can do? Put some little fiber washers in somewhere etc?

Basically it will rattle until I either turn the stove back down, or the stove heats up enough that whatever is expanding is done. Which could be 20-30 minutes.

The fans still work well, but it’s just annoying.

Three of my four Ashford fans have been going thru random 'rattle sessions" for 7 years now. I've been "meaning to get to" finding a permanent fix, but it happens infrequently enough that it never seems the top priority among other projects. Usually a good tap on the side of the fan housing, probably not unlike what your dad did to the old tube TV when it acted up, clears it up. Then it's quiet for several days, before repeating.

Starting just this year, it there have been a few times when it was more stubborn, requiring me to lean the BK poker tool or other implement against the side of the fan housing to prevent the rattle from returning. Then the next day... rattle is gone, when I remove said implement.

Too much welded sheet metal on these stoves, to ever hope for them to be completely silent, I guess. But if a bunch of welded sheet metal is what it takes to achieve these burn times and efficiencies, I'll happily continue to smack the thing, to deal with these occasional rattles.

Oh, and before anyone starts asking if I have four Ashfords... no. Two stoves, times two fans on each stove. I turn them on around Oct.1, and probably turn them off in May. Other than that, they're running 24/7.

 

[Highbeam]

Checking in a week later, I didn't have much time to look at the top of the chimney during daylight until the weekend.

There is definitely a marked initial improvement with the bypass fully latched, within a minute I can see the difference between the smoke plume with the bypass engaged and with the catalyst engaged, where before it seemed like a more gradual reduction. That being said, on startup and reloads, it still feels like the cat is getting overwhelmed by smoke output from the firebox. I tested with both white pine and red oak, and the pine is 'worse', but for both there is still an easily noticeable smoke plume for a good hour or even a bit more after initially engaging the cat. Leaving the thermostat at or near full for the first 30 minutes makes for greater smoke volume until it gets turned down. Quickly turning the thermostat down to a temp that will stabilize the cat thermometer around 2 o'clock after a reload still has an easily noticeable plume, though less smoke than if I left it full blast and the cat thermometer was at 4 o'clock.

A few operation questions:
The manual suggests leaving the thermostat at wide open for 20-30 minutes after engaging the cat. Is this primarily to ensure the fire gets well established to make sure you don't stall out the fire/cat, or because it is necessary for some less obvious reason? On a cold start or reload when the cat is inactive and I really load up with pine, I've sometimes been turning down the tstat a bit before the cat gets into the active zone because my flue gas temps are getting close to unsafe levels before I can get the cat engaged. When I've left the tstat around 4-5o'clock my flue gases have stayed much safer while the cat works its way to active, and if I leave the tstat there when I engage the Cat, the fire and cat don't have any noticeable issues burning and rising up to the higher side of the operating range. 30 minutes on high also really cuts into burn times for me.

I'm seeing flue gas temps in the stove pipe range from 450 when my cat thermometer is reading 85-90% to around 300 when the cat is at around 50%. is this good/appropriate? I've seen commentary on these forums that you want to be aiming for 400 flue gas temps to avoid creosote build-up in the chimney, and I wasn't sure if that was a universal guideline, or if things were different between a cat and tube-style stove.

I've had a pretty frustrating experience burning wood this winter so far. Some of it my own fault (not fully engaging the bypass lever), and some of it from a bad chimney liner install, and after having a chimney fire, and I'm trying to make sure I'm minimizing my creosote accumulation as much as possible.

You’re getting really close. The 20-30 minutes on high is a suggestion and in no way a requirement. It’s obviously too long for folks like us with dry softwoods. You just want an established fire where the fuel is mostly charred. I feel like forcing the whole load to become fully “involved” wastes fuel and creates way too much smoke for the cat efficiently eat until hours after engagement and intake air reduction. I’m thinking the eastern hardwoods or wet wood must not light up as quickly and is more prone to being snuffed.

If my flue temps are too high, definitely before 800, during warm up I take action. Usually I close the bypass since the cat only needs 500 degree smoke to light off. I am very sensitive to sending overly hot exhaust through that bypass opening.

I don’t like to let my flue temps fall too low and 400 is where my stove is firmly and steadily stable. No risk of cat stall, it stays nice and hot, and minimum smoke. Sure, the stove can run lower but the flue will be dirtier and wetter. My low output fire is flames out but a hot cat. I pull out my probe meter often and look at the color. At 400 it stays brown and dry. Below 400 it gets black and wet. That’s why I run a bit warmer than the absolute minimum.

 

[BKVP]

Last of NIELS only experiment. Next stage will be 50/50 (btu's not weight). At 60k per log, I'll add equal Btu's of western Larch. I'll run the combo until end of February.

I'm not measuring emissions (just noting opacity observations) and user perspective data.

March and into mid April, western Larch only.

 

[moresnow]

Care to share anything on strictly using the NIELS so far? Wish my nearest reseller was closer than 2hrs! That geometrically perfect stack beckons

 

[BKVP]

1. No bugs
2. No bark (dust yes)
3. No cat quenching (less mass to quench combustor temps in loading) More data later.
4. Easy to stack.
5. Btu's phenomenal.
6. Looks odd 4.27 cu ft firebox with 3 logs
7. Hard to start, need coal bed.
8. Faster loading, door open less than 15 seconds.
9. Burned 3,000lbs hardly any ashes (went 8 weeks before emptying...only 4" deep)
10. Absolutely consistent energy input results in most even heating (even in a BK!)
11. Easy to store/stack
12. Requires indoor storage, they pull moisture from air easily.
13. Careful handling or get TINY slivers
14. Most beneficial in low and medium low burn rates. On high, boy they go like nuclear fission.
15. Seem to get slightly more face of combustor masking. I'm running metal monolith, high cell per square inch combustor.
16. Wife likes them.
17. Odor free (I like coniferous smell so could be positive or negative)
18. Excessive low moisture content, requires very, very deliberate reductions in cutting back on air after high burn or stove can burp. NOTE: This is known to happen in various stove technologies even with kiln dried fuel.
19. Requires far less time in fuel maintenance.
20. Dropped logs will break.
21. Very reduced creosote deposits in firebox.
22. Wife likes them. See #16.
23. Take up little space compared to storage of cordwood.
24. Shine in performance in shoulder season.
25. Smoke out of stack is vastly reduced during and after reloads.

More later...17 flights in next 19 weeks! Wis, Fairbanks, Vegas, Ashville, D.C., Louisville, etc...

 

[moresnow]

Nice compilation of info! The wife portion is crucial. Travel safe.

 

[Ashful]

1. No bugs
2. No bark (dust yes)
3. No cat quenching (less mass to quench combustor temps in loading) More data later.
4. Easy to stack.
5. Btu's phenomenal.
6. Looks odd 4.27 cu ft firebox with 3 logs
7. Hard to start, need coal bed.
8. Faster loading, door open less than 15 seconds.
9. Burned 3,000lbs hardly any ashes (went 8 weeks before emptying...only 4" deep)
10. Absolutely consistent energy input results in most even heating (even in a BK!)
11. Easy to store/stack
12. Requires indoor storage, they pull moisture from air easily.
13. Careful handling or get TINY slivers
14. Most beneficial in low and medium low burn rates. On high, boy they go like nuclear fission.
15. Seem to get slightly more face of combustor masking. I'm running metal monolith, high cell per square inch combustor.
16. Wife likes them.
17. Odor free (I like coniferous smell so could be positive or negative)
18. Excessive low moisture content, requires very, very deliberate reductions in cutting back on air after high burn or stove can burp. NOTE: This is known to happen in various stove technologies even with kiln dried fuel.
19. Requires far less time in fuel maintenance.
20. Dropped logs will break.
21. Very reduced creosote deposits in firebox.
22. Wife likes them. See #16.
23. Take up little space compared to storage of cordwood.
24. Shine in performance in shoulder season.
25. Smoke out of stack is vastly reduced during and after reloads.

More later...17 flights in next 19 weeks! Wis, Fairbanks, Vegas, Ashville, D.C., Louisville, etc...

Yeah, but you you're not getting the chance to play Paul Bunyan, working off all those airline and hotel meals.