2022-2023 BK everything thread

[Highbeam]

28 hours is a long time, and that's a relatively conservative number for a Princess.

I actually live in a similar climate and burn a princess with these same fuels. It is no problem at all to load the stove less than 100% full and only get a 12 or 20 hour burn time. If you do this day after day then you will be starting a new fire after the house has cooled a few degrees which allows for, actually provides a desire for, that initial warm up squirt of extra heat before another long 12-20 hour cycle on low.

IMO, the 20 series is only a valid option if you need the physical space of a stove that is only physically smaller by inches or if you saved tons of money. The door is really small and the output ratings are almost the same on the low end.

It's a different world to the west. We have long and relatively warm heating seasons and our fuel is different.

Northern California is a pretty broad region there are colder areas and more mild areas. Coastal to mountainous. You can ski there!

 

[Fisherman-Travis]

Back to @Fisherman-Travis
Can the QuadraFire go low enough to not roast you out of the room (even if it can't run long enough)?

Sizing a stove for optimal heat output is hard if it is not clear what heat output you need. A comparison to how a known previous stove did in your home may help.

Second, regarding wood, it's not about having plenty of supply, it's about having dry wood. Your burning observations with the QuadraFire look good. However, tube stoves are often a bit easier on slightly wet wood than cat stoves. While some wood will be okay for burning in a BK in a year of drying, others will not. And the prime example there is oak. I'm not sure how your CA climate is; humid or dry. North suggests to my uneducated self it's not the San Diego dryness. I would therefore suggest to get a moisture meter (and know how to operate it) to ensure that what you burn is going to be dry enough. You want <20% (though the stove has been tested with wood <25%).

The current stove on low does not put out too much heat though we tend to start it in the evening and let it rip for a while to heat the house up, then repack it and shut it down before bed. Not because it’s too much heat but to try and have a few coals to relight in the am. House is usually a little colder than we would like when we get up. I have to admit There hasn’t been many times we have been home to keep it burning all day long. My wife likes it hot like a sauna in the house but it’s hard to get her to keep it going when I’m out. I don’t really know the btu output of my quadrafire. The best spec I can find it says less than 10,000 on low but in my experience it seems very inconsistent depending on the type of wood, size of splits and dryness. The vents don’t allow it to shut down very tight though. With the right combination of wood it will still rip pretty good on low.

Good points about the wood, climate etc. oak will definitely take two years to dry here on the coast and even then sometimes isn’t dry enough. We get the oak inland at family’s property where it is hot and dry. I prefer to season it there for the summer. The softer woods dry out good here at our property if split and stacked properly. Our house is in a low spot in the valley. Any time the sky is clear at night the temp will be 30-36f during the winter months and usually 38-45f if it’s cloudy At night. Daytime temps are 10 degrees warmer.

 

[Ashful]

Any time the sky is clear at night the temp will be 30-36f during the winter months and usually 38-45f if it’s cloudy At night. Daytime temps are 10 degrees warmer.

It seems we're conflicted here, perhaps I'm in the minority telling you that a Princess is too much stove for your scenario. It's a good debate, with some insightful points. Here's what I can say for the background on my perspective:

I have two Ashford 30's, a stove of similar size and with similar enough output range to a Princess. One of these stoves resides in a small addition put onto our house around 1995, with lots of glass (Anderson 400 double-hungs and French doors, with transom lights above all), 14 foot ceilings and 2x6 framed construction with bat insulation, open to our 1890's kitchen addition. The net space is almost identical to the size of your house, and it is basically isolated from the rest of the house with regard to heating, the only connection being thru a 30 inch deep x 24" wide doorway into the older part of the house. I can tell you from several years experience that the Ashford 30 will roast us out of the joint every time the sun shines, if I ever make the mistake of filling it at those temperatures. If I install only 6 splits instead of the usual 10, then it's more manageable, but it's really too much stove for any sunny day when the high temperature (not the low) is much above 40F. It's great on cloudy days, when our temperature runs 20 - 35F (most of our core winter weather), but it's overkill for such a small space with that much solar gain in the shoulder seasons.

This leaves me playing chicken with the weatherman most of Oct-Dec, and again Mar-April, cursing him each time he calls for "mostly cloud" and we get "mostly sunny". It's far from ideal.

I have a second Ashford installed in the older wing of the house, 4000 sq.ft. of 300 year old uninsulated stone construction, and it's very well sized for that job in any weather. But that's 3.5x more house, and likely 8x more heating load than you, due to a complete lack of insulation and our windows and doors last being updated in 1775.

My opinion is that 3 cubic foot stoves are the sweet spot for many woodburners, eg. 2500 sq.ft. in a place that actually gets snow (that sticks for more than 12 hours) and freezing weather. That's not to say it couldn't work for your smaller space in a warmer climate, surely it could, but I will continue to argue that it's not the best solution for this installation.

 

[Crummy]

It seems we're conflicted here, perhaps I'm in the minority telling you that a Princess is too much stove for your scenario. .

I will join you in the minority. 1200 square feet that's well insulated on the Northern California Coast doesn't really need that much stove.

 

[Nealm66]

I agree with ashful. I wouldn’t want any other stove than the princess but I have about 2000 sq ft well insulated and I suck at forecasting load size during the warmer spells. I believe highbeam has his dialed in way better than the average user. If you think you can be good about looking a day ahead than the princess won’t disappoint

 

[stoveliker]

All fair arguments. Clouds matter a lot.

My view is that If the low output on the quadrafire is similar to that of the princess or a 30 box (around 10 000 BTU per hour), and that did not overheat the home, then I think the BK will be fine.

Moreover, while comparing output rates of stoves from different manufacturers has issues, the comparison between models from BK is likely reliable. Therefore, I don't know that the 20 box will put out much less than the 30 box when run at the lowest setting in the same chimney system.

Regardless, both can likely do the job well. And both will allow for overnight fires, easily.

The *constant* output of the BK due to the thermostat will allow you to have much more consistent/reproducible results than with the quadrafire.

If you're worried about overheating, go with the 20 box. If you are not, go with the 30 box because it'll give longer burns (again, at the same output, if you ask me).

But, do also look at the other models named before. Don't only go by BK fanboys advice.

 

[reaperman1]

Is it necessary to use this stove collar for double wall black stove pipe? The guy who sold me the (Excel) chimney pipe said it would keep any creosote from dripping onto the top of the stove and keep it inside instead. But the gap between the double wall pipe fits perfect on the inside and over the factory collar. Am I missing something

 

[showrguy]

Is it necessary to use this stove collar for double wall black stove pipe? The guy who sold me the (Excel) chimney pipe said it would keep any creosote from dripping onto the top of the stove and keep it inside instead. But the gap between the double wall pipe fits perfect on the inside and over the factory collar. Am I missing something

View attachment 299317

Nope, I did’nt need one either..

 

[reaperman1]

Nope, I did’nt need one either..

Thanks, the good thing is it wasn’t too expensive compared to the rest of the stuff. Also, it seems like just using the pipe and not the adapter, the pipe can be fitted down further on the factory collar making a better fit.

 

[Ashful]

My view is that If the low output on the quadrafire is similar to that of the princess or a 30 box (around 10 000 BTU per hour), and that did not overheat the home, then I think the BK will be fine.

But you’re missing my point: the quadrafire went out by morning, it didn’t run straight thru into the next evening.

Keep that same stove going at continuous output for 24-30 hours, instead of merely the 6-8 coldest hours of the night, and it’s very likely it would have been too much. Not that you’re forced to load a Princess for 24 hours, but there’s a limit to how far you can short-cycle a 3 cu.ft. cat stove.

I would never want to unnecessarily subject myself to the constraints of consistently loading just the right amount of wood into my Ashford 30, to simultaneously 1) light off the cat, and 2) have it run nicely at minimum output rating without stall for the duration of the burn, and then 3) burn itself out after 6-8 hours. That would be quite a tedious trick to perform, over and over, for most of a heating season.

 

[stoveliker]

I do see your point.

But you seem to be missing the following quote from the OP:
"House is usually a little colder than we would like when we get up".

That makes it less likely that overheating is going to be a problem. Also given the (comparably) less fluctuating outside temps over a 24 hr span. This makes quite the difference, especially when solar gain is not happening often due to clouds (this I know very well).

Of course we can't predict how much output will be too much.

But given the "too cold in the morning", (and my disagreement about the difference between a 20 and 30 box) I think the princess is fine.

 

[Highbeam]

We actually looked at an ashford 20 last weekend. The wife laughed at how tiny it was with a silly little door like a microwave. Maybe it felt so small because the stoves were up on tables like waist high.

Remember the statistics, 90% of stoves are run at low 90% of the time or something like that. These bk things are made to run on low, they love it.

The princess is better but the 20 will work okay too. 30 box and 20 box have almost the same minimum output. I can think of no good reason to install a 20 stove. Only bad things happen when you cripple yourself with that smaller firebox. Just like opting for a tiny fuel tank in your truck.

This north Californian is experienced with burning wood and making a noncat work. A princess will be a dream come true, lots of fuel left in the stove and a warm home every morning. He’s also smart enough to load less wood if it’s too hot. Coastal weather is relatively predictable.

 

[BKVP]

Close @Highbeam! 80/80. 80% run wood stoves on low & medium low 80% of the time. Multiple Federal surveys, industry surveys all validate those percentages. I was once in attendance when a manufacturer argued (tried in vain) to contradict those data sets. FED OFFCIAL: "I have here in front of me multiple product brochures from your company, all of which very proudly boast individual product low burn durations. Why are not medium and high burn durations mentioned?"

I actually know there are specific use patterns based upon firebox size and equally important, intended use.

 

[Fisherman-Travis]

We actually looked at an ashford 20 last weekend. The wife laughed at how tiny it was with a silly little door like a microwave. Maybe it felt so small because the stoves were up on tables like waist high.

Remember the statistics, 90% of stoves are run at low 90% of the time or something like that. These bk things are made to run on low, they love it.

The princess is better but the 20 will work okay too. 30 box and 20 box have almost the same minimum output. I can think of no good reason to install a 20 stove. Only bad things happen when you cripple yourself with that smaller firebox. Just like opting for a tiny fuel tank in your truck.

This north Californian is experienced with burning wood and making a noncat work. A princess will be a dream come true, lots of fuel left in the stove and a warm home every morning. He’s also smart enough to load less wood if it’s too hot. Coastal weather is relatively predictable.

Lots of great discussions here. Not that it compares to a couple hundred year old house in sub zero temps at all but the sun doesn’t hit the house in the winter except for about 30 minutes mid day between trees. Need to cut them down! Also although we have nice blown in insulation in the ceiling we do have a lot of windows and glass doors. I think the heat output of my current stove is just fine. Problem is the tiny fire box. I don’t know the specs on the 1900 model but I’ve started cutting the wood 15” long so I can load it north south and they have to be split small. Getting enough in there to have coals in the am is like a game of Tetris every night. Three-four splits is max.
There’s a big gap between what I have and a bk princess. I think I need to find one to look over good and ideally find a second hand one I can fix up a little and try out with minimal investment. That way it’s not a big deal if it turns the whole house into a oven. Thanks for the help everyone!

 

[Ashful]

I think the bottom line is that you’ll be able to make either work for you. Stoveliker and I might argue about which is more ideal for your situation, and I’ll admit he makes some good points. The good news is that it’s just an appliance, and you’re not marrying the thing. If you go one way, and later feel the other might’ve worked a little nicer, it’s not a huge deal to swap stoves.

I had five wood stoves go thru this house in just four years. Used stoves usually sell fast and bring good money, so don’t sweat the choice too much, no matter how much some stove fanatics on an internet forum like to debate it.

 

[stoveliker]

That ^^

Calling me a fanatic, huh? 🧐😎👍

 

[Diabel]

It seems we're conflicted here, perhaps I'm in the minority telling you that a Princess is too much stove for your scenario. It's a good debate, with some insightful points. Here's what I can say for the background on my perspective:

I have two Ashford 30's, a stove of similar size and with similar enough output range to a Princess. One of these stoves resides in a small addition put onto our house around 1995, with lots of glass (Anderson 400 double-hungs and French doors, with transom lights above all), 14 foot ceilings and 2x6 framed construction with bat insulation, open to our 1890's kitchen addition. The net space is almost identical to the size of your house, and it is basically isolated from the rest of the house with regard to heating, the only connection being thru a 30 inch deep x 24" wide doorway into the older part of the house. I can tell you from several years experience that the Ashford 30 will roast us out of the joint every time the sun shines, if I ever make the mistake of filling it at those temperatures. If I install only 6 splits instead of the usual 10, then it's more manageable, but it's really too much stove for any sunny day when the high temperature (not the low) is much above 40F. It's great on cloudy days, when our temperature runs 20 - 35F (most of our core winter weather), but it's overkill for such a small space with that much solar gain in the shoulder seasons.

This leaves me playing chicken with the weatherman most of Oct-Dec, and again Mar-April, cursing him each time he calls for "mostly cloud" and we get "mostly sunny". It's far from ideal.

I have a second Ashford installed in the older wing of the house, 4000 sq.ft. of 300 year old uninsulated stone construction, and it's very well sized for that job in any weather. But that's 3.5x more house, and likely 8x more heating load than you, due to a complete lack of insulation and our windows and doors last being updated in 1775.

My opinion is that 3 cubic foot stoves are the sweet spot for many woodburners, eg. 2500 sq.ft. in a place that actually gets snow (that sticks for more than 12 hours) and freezing weather. That's not to say it couldn't work for your smaller space in a warmer climate, surely it could, but I will continue to argue that it's not the best solution for this installation.

I also think the princess is too big for 1200ft. of 24/7 burning. But oversized is better than undersized. You can always open a window.

My Princess sits in a 1100sf space (i do not burn full time) and after 4/5 days of continuous burning on max low the space will over heat.

 

[Nealm66]

The big fire box of the princess is super nice and longer burn times definitely make it worth the occasional overheating of my house and as mentioned, you can open windows. Just remember to check 24 hour forecast before you stuff it full. 12-16 hour burns are my normal and favorite reloading cycle but you might find the 20-24 to be perfect. I’d just get a new one. They work as advertised and if you’re careful with the forecast, no disappointments

 

[BKVP]

If you can get a new one (in stock somewhere) and you get installed prior to 12/31/2022, and you have Federal tax liability each year, the 26% tax credit applies.

 

[Crummy]

I'm curious in comparing apples to apples with the 30 size why does everyone always recommend the Princess rather than the Sirocco 30? The performance specs and capacity are very similar, mainly just the appearance is different. I personally like the Sirocco design much better. Right in the brochure it says "The Sirocco series embodies the timeless styling of the North American wood stove."

 

[Highbeam]

I also think the princess is too big for 1200ft. of 24/7 burning. But oversized is better than undersized. You can always open a window.

My Princess sits in a 1100sf space (i do not burn full time) and after 4/5 days of continuous burning on max low the space will over heat.

Maybe that’s what I’m missing, I would not expect continuous burning to be necessary most of the time to stay warm in that 1200 sf either. It will be a daily fire in the evening that will need to be restarted the next evening. One cycle, one load, per day but not a continuous fire most of the time. I like to align that single load with the afternoon because it’s coolest in the night and because I’m home to enjoy it. We go through a lot more kindling out west near the coast because it’s just not as cold.

There are lots of princess vs. 30 box posts. The princess has some distinct advantages if you don’t mind the looks of it. The biggest advantage for me is the ash belly. I only emptied ash twice last year!

 

[Ashful]

I have to empty ash every Saturday… x2 stoves, when I have both going. Part of that is the smaller belly of the 30 box, but even more so may be the difference in the wood we are burning.

 

[bikedennis]

Thanks, the good thing is it wasn’t too expensive compared to the rest of the stuff. Also, it seems like just using the pipe and not the adapter, the pipe can be fitted down further on the factory collar making a better fit.

I have to empty ash every Saturday… x2 stoves, when I have both going. Part of that is the smaller belly of the 30 box, but even more so may be the difference in the wood we are burning.

 

[Crummy]

I have been burning 24/7 for 24 days now in a Sirocco 20.2 and we just got to the recommended amount of ash. I'm thinking from what I see we will maybe empty it every three months but time will tell.

 

[bikedennis]

Must be the wood. I emptied my Sirocco 30.2 2X maybe 3X Nov. thru March. Burn pine and fir.