Woodstock Soapstone Progress Hybrid Stove

[Waulie]

I've been using exterior single wall pipe temps to engage the cat. I usually run it up to about 300 degrees at 10" above the stove (top vent) before I engage. I figure the cat absolutely has to be seeing 500+ in that case regardless or cold start or warm start. It really doesn't make much sense to go by the soapstone temp since it's going to be way different if you're cold starting or warm starting, etc. My cat lights off every time now now.

My normal top temp highs are in the 400's to 500. Max with a big load on a cold night is around 550. But, if I do an all cat smallish load I can cruise at 350 with no flame and no smoke out the chimney. This is normal shoulder season operation for me.

My exterior pipe temps at 10" above the stove almost always sits right at 320 degrees if the stove is hot. It rarely changes. I'm guessing that puts my flue temp somewhere around 500 degrees. I know they say flue temps are twice the exterior temp on a single wall pipe but I'm sure my measure temps are affected a lot by sitting so close to the hot stove top. I might try moving the thermo up and to the side of the pipe to what how that changes my readings.

I know HH reported lower top temps with the shielded cooktop (she started that thread on it which still pops up from time to time) and I thought there were others.

 

[Buck1200]

Glad you got the flue probe in R. 400F is the magic number for this stove: close the bypass and air control and the cat always engages. It also likes to sit at 400F flue for most of the burn, as long as you have more than a half load of wood. It's weirdly self regulating in that way.

Caveats: I have a lot of draft, and a thermocouple on the cat.

A note: last year's PH had a smaller bypass opening. From what I understand, those who have split their cooktops (me included) have this smaller opening. It creates a more concentrated hot spot when starting a fire in bypass mode. A friend has a new PH with no heat shield, but the wider opening, and has run just fine. I have a heat shield since replacement, and the response change of the top stone temperature is pretty noticeable. Stove still heats the same though, and runs the same flue temps.

 

[Waulie]

Wow, great info Buck. I'm still running the original cooktop and I must have the smaller bypass since I got a very early stove. I've been running it all this winter. I wonder if a crack is inevitable or if I'm going to be all right since I've made it this far.

 

[rideau]

I'm running the same stovetop temps in same situation. Maybe your 320 does convert to 640 or so...in keeping with what I saw with that internal probe thermometer temp. That internal probe thermometer is really easy to install, and I feel silly I had it sitting on the sofa table for months because I didn't want to put a hole in my pipe....Both ICC and Woodstock told me to install the probe, and I figure they know. So I knew I should, but...it took a exterior flue temp of 350 degrees to get me to install the probe. I now know that was about 1050, and perfectly safe for my pipe.

It is nice to actually know the flue temp. But I do feel confident that the magnetic therm temp is just about 1/3 the probe.
Suspect the single wall truely is 1/2 what a probe would be. The people who are giving the advice seem pretty reliable.

 

[Waulie]

IDK Rideau. Flue temps at 600 or 700 are pretty darn high! I tend to believe Buck's 400 way more. If the PH is really running flue temps near 700 throughout the burn, it is not a particularly efficient stove. We know this isn't the case.

Are you sure your flue probe is installed properly and not being affected by the radiant heat of the stove?

 

[Machria]

Machria: What sort of smoke trail out the flue do you see? If my stovetop is pegged at 325 with no secondaries, I will get gray smoke. If there are strong secondaries it's clean. Seems odd your stovetop temp is so low.

What is your typical draft setting - I'm guessing it's fully closed.

Amazingly, I have never seen any smoke of any kind come out of my chimney since installing the stove. I've checked at the first blast of a cold start, just before engaging the cat, midway thru a cat burn, and at the end of a cat burn when the stove and cat is prolly not hot enough for the cat to be working (even though the bypass is still closed), and in all cases you would not know I was burning anything. Keep in mind, my house is on stilts, and the top of chimney is basically 3 stories up from the ground when I'm looking at it. So maybe I just can't see it close enough cause I'm so far away? I did look at it with binoculars one of those times, in the middle of a burn, and saw nothing. One thing that has struck me with this stove is, I do not smell wood burning outside either. My next door neighbor was very suprised when I told him I've been burning since installing it. He said he always knew when my fireplace was going (he could smell it and see the smoke), but has never smelt the stove burning. He assumed I was not using it yet. I actually expected a strong wood burning smell outside.

My draft setting is ussually open about 1/8 the way (about 1/4" movment of the handle), just open pinch while we are in the room which lets me see a little fire/flame/secondary action. When we go to bed, I close it completelty down.

I have the new heat-shielded cooktop obviously, the stove is only a few weeks old. There is a thin stainless shiled bolted to bottom of it, covering about 60 or 70% of it, mainly direcly over where the cat is. One thing I've been disapointed with in the stove is the temp of the cooktop. I have not tried it yet with a very hot fire going, but with a small to normal/avg size fire, it does not get hot enough.

I wonder if the heat shield keeping the heat on the top down low, is throwing added heat off the sides of the stove, which is contributing to my walls directly off the back corners getting very hot? I should ask Woodstock about that....

 

[rideau]

Glad you got the flue probe in R. 400F is the magic number for this stove: close the bypass and air control and the cat always engages. It also likes to sit at 400F flue for most of the burn, as long as you have more than a half load of wood. It's weirdly self regulating in that way.

Caveats: I have a lot of draft, and a thermocouple on the cat.

A note: last year's PH had a smaller bypass opening. From what I understand, those who have split their cooktops (me included) have this smaller opening. It creates a more concentrated hot spot when starting a fire in bypass mode. A friend has a new PH with no heat shield, but the wider opening, and has run just fine. I have a heat shield since replacement, and the response change of the top stone temperature is pretty noticeable. Stove still heats the same though, and runs the same flue temps.

Very interesting. I was not aware of this. That's a change that can't be retrofitted! Wonder if they will keep both stovetops, or if all will be the new shielded.

 

[Machria]

IDK Rideau. Flue temps at 600 or 700 are pretty darn high! I tend to believe Buck's 400 way more. If the PH is really running flue temps near 700 throughout the burn, it is not a particularly efficient stove. We know this isn't the case.

Yep, my mag temp on the pipe stays between 200 and 250* almost always thoughout the burn with the cat engaged. Once in a while when the stove gets real hot toward the end of a load (alot of red hot coals in a very deep pile), it will raise up to 300 or 325, but not very often.

Are you sure your flue probe is installed properly and not being affected by the radiant heat of the stove?

It also can be affected by the radiant heat of the PIPE! So it can measure the actual flue gas temp, PLUS some added heat from the radiant heat bouncing around inside the pipe from the pipe walls themselves, especally in double wall pipe because it has nowhere else to go.

I strictly use the woodstock mag temp gage, about 12" above the stove on my heavy steel stove pipe. When it hits 250, I close the bypass. My stove top (soap) is ussually still 80 or 100* still. But the flue collar area is about 200* at that point. This is with a cold start of course. This takes 10 or 15 min's max. If I waited for the stove top to reach 250 or 300, that could be 2 hours.

 

[Waulie]

You need some cold weather so you can get that stove cranking Machria!

 

[rideau]

IDK Rideau. Flue temps at 600 or 700 are pretty darn high! I tend to believe Buck's 400 way more. If the PH is really running flue temps near 700 throughout the burn, it is not a particularly efficient stove. We know this isn't the case.

Are you sure your flue probe is installed properly and not being affected by the radiant heat of the stove?

It is installed properly.
Never sure of anything. But, on this particular burn, when I had more wood in the stove than usual, and some very dry wood, the magnetic thermometer was in keeping with the probe reading.

For my normal two or three large split load (I had 4 on the burn referenced), I had been using the magnetic thermometer to engage the cat, and engaged the cat when the thermometer got to 150, with success. That would indicate 450 interior flue, I'm believing. The thermometer would sometimes stop rising, sometimes get up to as much as 200, but then drop and sit right arounf 140 to 150.

This last burn mentioned, I was surprised the flue temp stayed so high so long, but the stove put out a lot of heat and had a bright active fire going on for a good five hours, absolutely clear gases out the stack the entire time, relatively low stovetop temps..a really nice fire, but.just sort of wierd and different than anything I had seen before. I do, though, not infrequently see a magnetic thermometr temp right near or sligtly over 200 the few times I try to burn the stove hot and get stovetop temps of over 500. I know the ICC pipe is insulated and designed to keep the temp high in the pipe.

I have my probe installed just below the sliding joint in my adjustable double wall, per Woodstock's recommendation, which puts it just above where the brass piece on the soapstone hits the pipe when the soapstone is up for cooking. I doubt the probe is going to read any exterior temps, so I doubt radiant heat is a factor in the probe temp. Don't know about the magnetic thermometer, but I can't believe the air there is as hot as the pipe. It surely doesn't seem to be.

 

[rideau]

Amazingly, I have never seen any smoke of any kind come out of my chimney since installing the stove. I've checked at the first blast of a cold start, just before engaging the cat, midway thru a cat burn, and at the end of a cat burn when the stove and cat is prolly not hot enough for the cat to be working (even though the bypass is still closed), and in all cases you would not know I was burning anything. Keep in mind, my house is on stilts, and the top of chimney is basically 3 stories up from the ground when I'm looking at it. So maybe I just can't see it close enough cause I'm so far away? I did look at it with binoculars one of those times, in the middle of a burn, and saw nothing. One thing that has struck me with this stove is, I do not smell wood burning outside either. My next door neighbor was very suprised when I told him I've been burning since installing it. He said he always knew when my fireplace was going (he could smell it and see the smoke), but has never smelt the stove burning. He assumed I was not using it yet. I actually expected a strong wood burning smell outside.

My draft setting is ussually open about 1/8 the way (about 1/4" movment of the handle), just open pinch while we are in the room which lets me see a little fire/flame/secondary action. When we go to bed, I close it completelty down.

I have the new heat-shielded cooktop obviously, the stove is only a few weeks old. There is a thin stainless shiled bolted to bottom of it, covering about 60 or 70% of it, mainly direcly over where the cat is. One thing I've been disapointed with in the stove is the temp of the cooktop. I have not tried it yet with a very hot fire going, but with a small to normal/avg size fire, it does not get hot enough.

I wonder if the heat shield keeping the heat on the top down low, is throwing added heat off the sides of the stove, which is contributing to my walls directly off the back corners getting very hot? I should ask Woodstock about that....

The original cooktop got hot at the 325-350 temps. Guess Woodstock isn't still making the original cooktop.

 

[rideau]

Yep, my mag temp on the pipe stays between 200 and 250* almost always thoughout the burn with the cat engaged. Once in a while when the stove gets real hot toward the end of a load (alot of red hot coals in a very deep pile), it will raise up to 300 or 325, but not very often.



It also can be affected by the radiant heat of the PIPE! So it can measure the actual flue gas temp, PLUS some added heat from the radiant heat bouncing around inside the pipe from the pipe walls themselves, especally in double wall pipe because it has nowhere else to go.

I strictly use the woodstock mag temp gage, about 12" above the stove on my heavy steel stove pipe. When it hits 250, I close the bypass. My stove top (soap) is ussually still 80 or 100* still. But the flue collar area is about 200* at that point. This is with a cold start of course. This takes 10 or 15 min's max. If I waited for the stove top to reach 250 or 300, that could be 2 hours.

I'm assuming you have heavy single wall pipe? So, presumably 250 =500, which is the temp the cat should engage at.

 

[Machria]

I'm assuming you have heavy single wall pipe? So, presumably 250 =500, which is the temp the cat should engage at.

Yep.

 

[Machria]

Question, I took out my cat for the 1st time yesterday to check/clean since I had a cold stove (what hte heck, took 10 seconds to pull out). It was clean as a whistle, looked like the day I got it, just a brownish color what looks like a square rubber thing, with a brown metal honey comb center. anyway, I was taking of a few pics of he interior of the stove and the bottom of the cooktop... while I had it out, and when I went to stick the cat back in, realized I forgot which direction I pulled it out and placed it down. After inspecing it, it looks like it doesn't matter, seemed to be no difference in the two sides of the cat so it can go in either way, is that correct?

 

[Waulie]

Yeah, it doesn't matter. I think WS actually says to switch it every so often so it wears evenly.

Rubber? What rubber?

 

[Machria]

Yeah, it doesn't matter. I think WS actually says to switch it every so often so it wears evenly.

Rubber? What rubber?

Thanks. Isn't the outside rim of it rubber of some sort? I thought it felt like rubber... I should say silicone, not rubber.

 

[Waulie]

Huh. Mines not. It is all metal.

 

[Huntindog1]

Not to change the subject for all of you Woodstock Progress Hybrid owners but......

I am not sure most people understand when Woodstock says this stove has the highest BTU rating EPA tested output of any stove ever tested.

The number is 73,171 btu per hour.

Why is this number special?

Its because the EPA tests use a lower quality wood and to get that number out of that kind of wood is an accomplishment.

When you see high numbers like that on other stoves those are numbers obtained loading the best quality high BTU wood not the kind of wood used for EPA testing.

The EPA tests are standardized government test designed to see how good emissions a stove has with poorer quality wood.

 

[rideau]

Thanks. Isn't the outside rim of it rubber of some sort? I thought it felt like rubber... I should say silicone, not rubber.

Mines all metal too. Is that some kind of caulking that came out with the cat?

 

[ciccio]

Waule: Nope, I do not have the shielded cooktop. That makes sense that the temp would be lower with the shield but I thought someone else posted it made little difference to stovetop temps. I am trying to ween myself away from using the stovetop temp to decide when to engage the cat, and use the rear steel flue plate instead since when I use the cooktop there is no stovetop thermometer.

I guess a cat probe would help, but I hate to introduce another gadget into the mix.

I installed the new cook top with the shield and have found that the stove top temps are about 150 degrees less with the shield on...

 

[siddfynch]

I installed the new cook top with the shield and have found that the stove top temps are about 150 degrees less with the shield on...

My PH should arrive in a few days. I got the cooktop, but don't know what it looks like.

The shield you refer to is different from the rear heat shield, right?
And if it's a cooktop shield, do I have a choice of removing it before running the stove?

 

[rideau]

The shield is an integral part of the cooktop, is attached under it, cannot be removed. It keeps the cast iron from getting hot too quickly. Don't know if it has an effect on the ultimate temperature of the cooktop. You could always remove the cooktop, if you don't want to use it and also bought the other soapstone top, which is designed for use without a cooktop. It's thicker than the stone that comes with the cooktop, for obvious reasons.

 

[Slow1]

My PH should arrive in a few days. I got the cooktop, but don't know what it looks like.

The shield you refer to is different from the rear heat shield, right?
And if it's a cooktop shield, do I have a choice of removing it before running the stove?

I believe the cooktop shield is inside the stove - i.e attached to the bottom of the cooktop so it is a bit different from the rear shield.

I would advise strongly against removing it as it appears to be a necessary design modification to the stove. Keep in mind that as WS gets feedback and experience with the PH they will continue to improve it in order to maximize the value of the stove - both heating ability and reliability.

 

[Machria]

My PH should arrive in a few days. I got the cooktop, but don't know what it looks like.

The shield you refer to is different from the rear heat shield, right?
And if it's a cooktop shield, do I have a choice of removing it before running the stove?

Here is two pictures that will help you. The first shows the cooktop installed, with only the center stone lifted to reveal the center cooktop burner (high heat). You can also lift the right and left side stones, and reveal the Med and Low heat burners if you like. The second photo shows the underside of the cooktop with it removed from the stove to reveal the "cooktop heatshield". The heat shield is the thin stainless peice of metal with 4 bolts fastening it to the underside of the cooktop.

If you don't use the cooktop, that's no problem just leave the top stones down and nobody will ever know it even exists. BUT, if you want to cook some chili on it, just lift up the stone, and head on over to the Progress Hybrid recipe thread:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/recipes-for-the-progress-hybrid.94828/

 

[binko]

How can you run the stove with the cooktop removed. The smoke will come thru the seams between the stones?