Woodstock Soapstone Progress Hybrid Stove

[Waulie]

I aim for 19" long splits. That gives me wiggle room for inexact cuts and makes it a bit easier to fully load the stove. While 22" works, I wouldn't want most of my splits to be that long unless I was around more and didn't need to fully load the stove very often. This brutally cold winter, I've fully packing the stove very often and appreciate the wiggle room. Since I usually eyeball my cutting lengths, I'd say 95% of my splits are 18 to 20" long.

 

[logger]

Since I will be picking up a PH in the near future, Im just wondering what types of stoves you guys and gals were previously running and the difference you get from your PH. Im obviously looking for an upgrade from our Oslo. Its been a wonderful stove, but this winter I really had to push it hard with the cold weather we experienced and Im hoping the PH can do a better job. So far, it sounds like it will fit my criteria
FYI- I have a 2000 sq ft log home with good insulation and just under 20 ft of straight pipe going up my cathedral ceiling. I think the PH will be a great addition to the home.

 

[smokedragon]

A bunch of reasons why I like 16" splits::

1. When I'm scrounging wood, 16" rounds are easier to haul from long distances to my house.
2. 16" lengths are very easy to pack tight in the stove, especially towards the top. 22" can be a pain to pack tight, especially if they are not perfectly straight.
3. I can still fill the box on very cold nights by filling the door area N/S with shorter splits.
4. Wife appreciates the smaller pieces when she loads the stove.
5. 22" splits just get annoying to stack and carry inside.


I'm just not seeing how the huge splits really benefit me that much.

I always cut mine 16" regardless of the stove. The reason being that three 16" stacks make a 4' wide stack (a cord). They are easier to split (since I exclusively split by hand), they are easier to carry.

I have split some 20 - 24" wood, and it is a lot harder. Now if I had a hydro splitter, I would feel differently.

Also, when you get offered a 20 - 30" diameter tree, cutting the rounds at 22" makes them too heavy to pick up, where 16" is a real challenge (especially at that larger diameter).

We cut some oak a few weeks ago, and a friend decided to "help" me. He cut a 22" diameter oak tree 22" long. We weighed it, and it came in at 153lbs. That is a little to much to be hefting up on to the trailer on a regular basis. The same tree cut to 16" long, the rounds weighed in at 110. Still heavy, but a big difference.

 

[fire_man]

I agree with everything smokedragon snorted.

But I will say I enjoy that UGG UGG feeling of loading giant 22" splits!

 

[smokedragon]

If I ever get a hydraulic splitter, I may try a little longer split.........Between my wood pile and my grandparents, I split 9 cord by hand last year. Those 22" splits get old after a while. I am trying to get ahead this year, and will be on track to split 16 cord. I have already split and stacked 4 cord since new years day.

Besides, that UGG UGG feeling is what makes my wife NOT load the stove.

 

[Waulie]

Yeah, it really depends on your situation. I split by hand, but I'm splitting probably 90% ash which splits easily anyway. I've never noticed a few inches making it much harder. It's also less cutting. I think the right answer for the PH is 16 to 22 inches. It is really nice having the flexibility! Even though I "aim" for 19", I do have a few set aside that are over 22" and I'll burn those diagonally if the weather ever warms up. Every once in a awhile, I measure down the length of the tree and mark my cuts for accuracy but I can't seem to get the in habit of doing it for every tree. I will say that having some nice, big 22" splits packed tight can't be beat for long, long heat. It's just a pain to pack them tight. I guess having a bit of a mix is really the way to go from my standpoint. See, I just rationalized not measuring my cuts!

 

[smokedragon]

Because, looking at the chart a user will look at it and say, "oh, the Fireview will provide more heat than an Equinox."

The fireview will provide more heat than the equinox (if both fireboxes are 50% full of douglas fir).

But the fireview will be burned out in 2 hours and the equinox will be burned out in 15 hours.

The problem I see with this data, and this argument, is the difference between BTU, and BTU/hour.

Just because a stove has a larger firebox, doesn't mean it will provide more BTU. What it means is it will provide longer burn times.

If the equinox peaks at 38,000 BTU, but can provide that for 15 hours & the fireview peaks at 45,000 BTU and can provide that for 4 hours.......then it makes more sense which one to select.

I wish the EPA would give how long each stove burned in each of their four settings (low, medium low, medium high, and wide open). That would add a WHOLE LOT of context to these numbers.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

I'm not really sure why but I keep seeing that 45,000 btu on the Fireview. Where did that come from? If you look at the specs, you will see the maximum output is 55,000 rather than 45,000. However, we also keep seeing that folks burn it at only 500-550 stove top and for some reason or another they seem to fear burning it hotter. In our home we have no problem getting that thing up to near the maximum and at times at the maximum recommended. The stove was designed to run at 55,000 max so why not use it that way if the heat is needed and this winter, no doubt many have needed that amount of heat. Okay, rant over.

 

[smokedragon]

we also keep seeing that folks burn it at only 500-550 stove top and for some reason or another they seem to fear burning it hotter.

Out of curiosity, how hot do you burn it (stove top temp)? I really have wondered just how hard someone has pushed these soapstone stoves in this awful cold winter. That has been my one real holdback with woostock. Many of the steel stoves have lifetime warranties, and I am familiar with a steel stove. Their warranty is much shorter, and I am very unfamiliar with soapstone/cast iron stove. I have real concerns about cracking the stone, messing up a seam, having to rebuild the stove, etc.

Would love to get some details since it sounds like you pushed your fireview to its limit this winter.

Right one as noted is the ECO fan which runs itself off of the heat, it makes no noise and actually moves a fair amount of air

I have thought about an eco fan........have you run with and without? What do you think of it?

Chris

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Chris, not only this winter but we have run our stove every winter in the 600-700 range but we do try to keep about 680 as the top end and have been successful in that. Many times even in the fall when we load only maybe 3 splits we get the stove top over 600. It is designed for up to 700 so it does no harm to run it like that. I have heard of some others having to change out the scoop as it had warped but we've made no changes so I have no idea how they did what they did but suspect it was done when warming up a cold stove.

On the eco fan, I did one time cave in to humor my wife with an eco fan. I think it went back within 2 days as it turned out to be nothing more than a toy. It does move some air but not much. It would work in a tent or a very small room but one has to keep in mind that it is better to move the cool air into the warm air rather than the other way around. There is a very good reason for that too.

 

[rideau]

Woodstock has a 6 month money back warranty, but believe me, they stand behind their stoves. If you had a problem from any kind of defect, or design failure, they would cover it. Nothing really happens to these stoves. If you ever need new gaskets or whatever, the cost is absolutely minimal...a few dollars. If you crack a piece of soapstone, it is pretty easy to replace, and not terribly expensive. They'll mail it out to you the same day. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a Woodstock because of concern about warranty or the company standing behind their product.

 

[Flamestead]

Since I will be picking up a PH in the near future, Im just wondering what types of stoves you guys and gals were previously running and the difference you get from your PH. ...snip...

We came to the PH from a pre-EPA Tempwood. A nice stove in its own right, but not half the stove the PH is, in any regard except perhaps ease of starting. We had to clean the flue monthly previously; now we clean it two or three times a winter (mostly due to making us fell better than due to need), the stove stays hotter longer, and is much more efficient (more heat per piece of wood handled). I suspect you will love the PH.

 

[logger]

We came to the PH from a pre-EPA Tempwood. A nice stove in its own right, but not half the stove the PH is, in any regard except perhaps ease of starting. We had to clean the flue monthly previously; now we clean it two or three times a winter (mostly due to making us fell better than due to need), the stove stays hotter longer, and is much more efficient (more heat per piece of wood handled). I suspect you will love the PH.

Thanks for the input.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Just because a stove has a larger firebox, doesn't mean it will provide more BTU. What it means is it will provide longer burn times.

If the equinox peaks at 38,000 BTU, but can provide that for 15 hours & the fireview peaks at 45,000 BTU and can provide that for 4 hours.......then it makes more sense which one to select.

A larger stove can provide more heat than a smaller stove. The equinox at 600 puts out more heat than a Fireview at 600.

 

[JA600L]

What kind of burn times can you get out of a cat stove when its zero degrees outside? My thinking is the hybrids probably perform the same as a cat stove when it is very cold, but the cat stove extends burn time when temps are milder.

 

[Ashful]

A larger stove can provide more heat than a [smaller] stove. The equinox at 600 puts out more heat than a Fireview at 600.

I know what you're saying, BAR, but you might want to fix your typo.

What BAR's getting at is, given the same material and surface temperature, the radiated heat is proportional to surface area. Bigger stove = more surface area. You just need proportionally more fuel per hour to get it to the same temperature (overcoming greater radiation losses). Either way, it comes down to fuel per hour x efficiency. The stove size is sort of outside the equation.

 

[BrowningBAR]

I know what you're saying, BAR, but you might want to fix your typo.

What BAR's getting at is, given the same material and surface temperature, the radiated heat is proportional to surface area. Bigger stove = more surface area. You just need proportionally more fuel per hour to get it to the same temperature (overcoming greater radiation losses). Either way, it comes down to fuel per hour x efficiency. The stove size is sort of outside the equation.

Yep. Typed larger twice.

 

[BrowningBAR]

What kind of burn times can you get out of a cat stove when its zero degrees outside? My thinking is the hybrids probably perform the same as a cat stove when it is very cold, but the cat stove extends burn time when temps are milder.

Depends upon the insulation, layout, and size of stove.

 

[Ashful]

My thinking is the hybrids probably perform the same as a cat stove when it is very cold, but the cat stove extends burn time when temps are milder.

Your thinking is exactly correct. When it's crazy cold out, you'll be running any stove at a higher burn rate, and the advantage of the cat stove disappears. Of course, we spend 80% of the time with the stove shut down on a low setting, and that's when the cat stove shows its advantage.

 

[smokedragon]

the radiated heat is proportional to surface area. Bigger stove = more surface area.

Totally agree with that as a general rule. Just like larger firebox size generally means longer burn times. But some stoves with medium firebox sizes (BK Princess) get longer burn times than 3.4 cu ft fireboxes (like Englander 30NC), so its not a hard and fast rule.

But just because a stove is bigger doesn't mean it puts out more peak BTU. Some stove designs burn hotter than others. My old smoke dragon has a big firebox for an insert, but I'll bet that a cheapo secondary burn insert with a smaller firebox and surface area throws WAY MORE peak BTU. Because the design is letting less heat go up the chimney.

There is more to this equation than firebox size or stove surface area.

The equinox at 600 puts out more heat than a Fireview at 600.

Now that is a totally accurate statement. Two stoves at the same temp, larger stove absolutely will radiate more heat.

 

[dhumohr]

This thread has been dormant for quite awhile, but we hope you're all out there yet, because we just got our PH and it's now installed and ready to go! Last year we figured that we burned about 12 face cord of wood, and although we've read that some people have cut their wood consumption in half, and because we live in a quite old, not very well insulated home, we thought we'd be conservative and plan on using 3/4 of what we did last year. We were very lucky to find some seasoned wood from someone who stopped heating with a wood furnace and wanted to sell their wood. So we have about 7 face cords of that for this year, plus three face cords of wood that was split in May of this year. We also will have 9 face cords of wood cut this summer for next heating season. The seasoned splits are about 18", and the wood split in May is about 16". I think we're all set, and now since it's getting a bit chilly in the evenings, we thought we'd start up the stove for the first time about midday tomorrow or the next day, when we can open windows and doors to provide ventilation, since the instructions say there may be an acrid smell for the first couple of burns.

Other than checking for a good draft and starting with crumpled newspaper and kindling and adding small splits (as we'd have done with our old stove), are there any tips you can give us?

Also I'm a little confused. When we were at Woodstock in August, Jamie said to put the thermometer on the stove top and when it reached 250, engage the combuster, and in the directions under the section labeled "the Surface Thermometer", it says "we recommend placing the thermometer 8-10" above the flue collar on single wall stove pipe". Then later on, it says "we recommend engaging your combuster once the pipe thermometer reaches 300-350. Stove top temperatures should reach approximately 250." More: "once the combuster is engaged you should see the stove surface temps rise and the pipe temp drop". Doesn't this sound like you should be using TWO thermometers?? We do have two--should we use them both?

 

[Tenn Dave]

This thread has been dormant for quite awhile, but we hope you're all out there yet, because we just got our PH and it's now installed and ready to go! Last year we figured that we burned about 12 face cord of wood, and although we've read that some people have cut their wood consumption in half, and because we live in a quite old, not very well insulated home, we thought we'd be conservative and plan on using 3/4 of what we did last year. We were very lucky to find some seasoned wood from someone who stopped heating with a wood furnace and wanted to sell their wood. So we have about 7 face cords of that for this year, plus three face cords of wood that was split in May of this year. We also will have 9 face cords of wood cut this summer for next heating season. The seasoned splits are about 18", and the wood split in May is about 16". I think we're all set, and now since it's getting a bit chilly in the evenings, we thought we'd start up the stove for the first time about midday tomorrow or the next day, when we can open windows and doors to provide ventilation, since the instructions say there may be an acrid smell for the first couple of burns.

Other than checking for a good draft and starting with crumpled newspaper and kindling and adding small splits (as we'd have done with our old stove), are there any tips you can give us?

Also I'm a little confused. When we were at Woodstock in August, Jamie said to put the thermometer on the stove top and when it reached 250, engage the combuster, and in the directions under the section labeled "the Surface Thermometer", it says "we recommend placing the thermometer 8-10" above the flue collar on single wall stove pipe". Then later on, it says "we recommend engaging your combuster once the pipe thermometer reaches 300-350. Stove top temperatures should reach approximately 250." More: "once the combuster is engaged you should see the stove surface temps rise and the pipe temp drop". Doesn't this sound like you should be using TWO thermometers?? We do have two--should we use them both?

The progress hybrid is a great stove and you will be very happy with it. Besides the things you have mentioned about starting a fire, I use Super Cedars in place of newspaper. Also, my stove is rear vented, so I only use the thermometer on the stove top.
There are still some Woodstock stove owners here at hearth.com, but a great many have moved on to other Forum sites. If you do not get many responses here, you will have to do a yahoo search to find other forums. Good luck.

 

[fire_man]

Other than checking for a good draft and starting with crumpled newspaper and kindling and adding small splits (as we'd have done with our old stove), are there any tips you can give us?

Also I'm a little confused. When we were at Woodstock in August, Jamie said to put the thermometer on the stove top and when it reached 250, engage the combuster, and in the directions under the section labeled "the Surface Thermometer", it says "we recommend placing the thermometer 8-10" above the flue collar on single wall stove pipe". Then later on, it says "we recommend engaging your combuster once the pipe thermometer reaches 300-350. Stove top temperatures should reach approximately 250." More: "once the combuster is engaged you should see the stove surface temps rise and the pipe temp drop". Doesn't this sound like you should be using TWO thermometers?? We do have two--should we use them both?

Hi dhumohr,

Congrats on the new Progress! It's a great stove built by a great company.

You are right, start with crumpled newspapers and kindling and add small splits. Don't be concerned if the draft seems weak, it's still kind of warm this time of year which hurts draft. Like any stove, the Progress takes some getting used to. After a year or so, you will get used to all the operating details and will get good at running the stove in different weather conditions.

I found that with a brand new Combustor, I can engage the cat with a stove top temp of 250F, but after 10 or so fires, the cat calms down and you will be engaging closer to 300F. I don't use the pipe temp to guide me since mine is a rear vent and impossible to get to the vertical section with a thermometer. I use two thermometers - one on the stovetop and one mounted to the cast iron trim around the window. I find the trim location more accurately reflects the "whole stove" temp, rather than the stovetop temp which may be hotter due to the cat. You really only need one thermometer, either on the stovetop or flue.

If you load the stove full, the Progress likes to fire off it's secondaries and it's hard to calm them down. But if you load 1/2 way it's easier to get the stove to burn in pure "cat" mode. Watch the Iconel screen, some users find it plugs more often than others and has to be cleaned.

I could go on and on - but it's best just to start burning, learn, be safe and have fun!

 

[Cross Cut Saw]

Also I'm a little confused. When we were at Woodstock in August, Jamie said to put the thermometer on the stove top and when it reached 250, engage the combuster, and in the directions under the section labeled "the Surface Thermometer", it says "we recommend placing the thermometer 8-10" above the flue collar on single wall stove pipe". Then later on, it says "we recommend engaging your combuster once the pipe thermometer reaches 300-350. Stove top temperatures should reach approximately 250." More: "once the combuster is engaged you should see the stove surface temps rise and the pipe temp drop". Doesn't this sound like you should be using TWO thermometers?? We do have two--should we use them both?

I would suggest leaving your door cracked just enough to let some air in while lighting and until the kindling can stay lit on it's own. Like it says you don't want to put a roaring fire in a cold stove so I would start small and add to it.

If you vent your stove from the top put your thermometer on the cast iron on the top of the stove directly to the left or right of the pipe, we did it that way and it's very accurate.

Use the thermometer that came with it and if you have well seasoned wood you can close the bypass at the temperature it says to on the thermometer and close the air down half way (you never want to have the bypass engaged and have the air more than half way open). We marked 1/2 and 1/4 open on the heat shield on the back so my wife and I could be doing the same thing.

Last year we ordered Maple only from a local dealer, it dried enough within 9 months and was very easy to regulate the fire output since it was very consistent. On a nice bed of coals we would reload at 300-350 degrees, immediately shut the air down 1/2, set a timer for 10 minutes, after 10 minutes close the bypass, set the timer for 5 minutes, after 5 minutes turn the air down to less than 1/4, and slowly lower it from there, watching the flame in the center bottom to make sure it doesn't go out completely but is just barely flickering.

If you have any specific questions feel free to pm me, I spent a lot of time dialing that thing in and getting it working great, it heated our poorly insulated 153 year old home with no problem, but you can see in the picture below, some like it HOT!

 

[JA600L]

Does the progress hybrid have a hot spot in front of the cat too?