Yup. I had a completely dark firebox much sooner than normal because it was warm out last night. Hardly any flame a all after closing down. The cat was certainly going to town though as the stove top was real hot. In colder weather I almost always get some kind of flames on a good size load. I had an occasioanl secondary burst last night but I don't think it was on a schedule. Maybe the stars were aligned for Machria.
Woodstock Soapstone Progress Hybrid Stove
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Yup. I had a completely dark firebox much sooner than normal because it was warm out last night. Hardly any flame a all after closing down. The cat was certainly going to town though as the stove top was real hot. In colder weather I almost always get some kind of flames on a good size load. I had an occasioanl secondary burst last night but I don't think it was on a schedule. Maybe the stars were aligned for Machria.
I get that quite a bit with warmer outside temps 40+. Open the air a bit and it goes straight to steady secondaries.
I get the oscillating secondary burn in the Fv. Dunno the timing and duration, probably not as perfect nor as long.
Sounds like how some do with biobricks, etc. Stack in a big cube to limit the surface area exposed.
Machria
Minister of Fire
So how does the outside temp affect the burn? The only thing I could see changing is the draft I guess.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
What you saw, Machria, is the dreaded back-puffing I've so often discussed. Air is leaking into the stove too slow to burn off the gasses coming off the wood, and the stove stalls. After a few seconds, enough air leaks in to hit the critical mixture, and "puff"! Rare to see it on such a small load, though.
Did you smell any smoke pushing out thru the air inlets, as a result? My stove will actually force smoke out thru the door gaskets, and occasionally even lift the top-load door when it really gets going in a cycle. Very exciting.
Did you smell any smoke pushing out thru the air inlets, as a result? My stove will actually force smoke out thru the door gaskets, and occasionally even lift the top-load door when it really gets going in a cycle. Very exciting.
Not a backpuff. Part of a normal low cat burn. You may see the coals a bit bright, maybe not. Stove temps good, cat burning the smoke. Then every once in a while a lovely wispy cat flame in the firebox. No puffing, no explosion, no ash flying around. Just a quiet, gentle wispy flame that travels around the firebox and disappears.
Machria
Minister of Fire
No back puffing at all, it was not very violent (pressure wise), just a blast of flames, but the flames were soft rolling flames all around the box. Definitely was the gasses building up, then burning off, and I've seen this before, just not for so long or so perfectly timed. I'd swear somebody was opening and closing the air...
Machria
Minister of Fire
Exactly... You beat me too it. But it was big flames that filled the box, but not violently.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
Yep... I see that all the time. Trouble is, over the course of an hour or two, those cycles often amplify to the behavior I described above. You don't know what happened after you went to bed. 
There is no denying it's the same exact resonant behavior... just a matter of amplitude.
There is no denying it's the same exact resonant behavior... just a matter of amplitude.
fox9988
Minister of Fire
Machria
Minister of Fire
It's amazing to me, how different the burn "viewing" is on each and every load! Everynight, I get a completely different show to watch, and it's almost always better (even when it's black with no flames!) than the CRAP that is on the 750+ channels of Sattelite TV I have available. 
Last night, about the same load, a large split on the bottom in the back, a med split in the front with two med splits stacked on top, 2 peices of small kindling (1" strip about 12" long) laying in the middle over 1/2 of a Super Cedar. About 1/4 to 1/2 load and lit it up at 8pm. 8:15 closed the bypass, shut down the air all the way down. By 9pm the fire was complete out to a small smouldering coal bed at the bottom, stove top was 300-350 (cat going strong), pipe got up to 400 which is rare for me. I wanted a bit more heat, and a little show to stare at so I opened it up about 1/2 way for 20 seconds. Instantly a rager of secondaries started, and I shut the air all the way back down. The secondaries slowed down a little bit, but continued to burn for about an hour, the pipe indeed went down with the secondaries burning, down 50 to 100* to about 250 to 300*.
Somebody asked me about my duct/inline fan (sorry, forgot who it was?). Well, it was the smartest thing I did, I installed a duct intake above the stove with an inline fan blowing hot air down to our first floor bedroom. My oil burner thermastat on the 1st floor is set a 64* now, and rarely comes on when the stove is buring and the inline fan is on. Our bedroom below the stove is a staying a very comfy 65 to 70 degrees thru the night. The air coming out the vent is 85 or 90* which is pretty dang cool, no oil burner yet heat blowing out of a duct!
The stove is amazingly controllable and has just a gorgeous burn with un-beleivable amount of heat. Really happy with it.
Last night, about the same load, a large split on the bottom in the back, a med split in the front with two med splits stacked on top, 2 peices of small kindling (1" strip about 12" long) laying in the middle over 1/2 of a Super Cedar. About 1/4 to 1/2 load and lit it up at 8pm. 8:15 closed the bypass, shut down the air all the way down. By 9pm the fire was complete out to a small smouldering coal bed at the bottom, stove top was 300-350 (cat going strong), pipe got up to 400 which is rare for me. I wanted a bit more heat, and a little show to stare at so I opened it up about 1/2 way for 20 seconds. Instantly a rager of secondaries started, and I shut the air all the way back down. The secondaries slowed down a little bit, but continued to burn for about an hour, the pipe indeed went down with the secondaries burning, down 50 to 100* to about 250 to 300*.
Somebody asked me about my duct/inline fan (sorry, forgot who it was?). Well, it was the smartest thing I did, I installed a duct intake above the stove with an inline fan blowing hot air down to our first floor bedroom. My oil burner thermastat on the 1st floor is set a 64* now, and rarely comes on when the stove is buring and the inline fan is on. Our bedroom below the stove is a staying a very comfy 65 to 70 degrees thru the night. The air coming out the vent is 85 or 90* which is pretty dang cool, no oil burner yet heat blowing out of a duct!
The stove is amazingly controllable and has just a gorgeous burn with un-beleivable amount of heat. Really happy with it.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
That's exactly what I see! However, when I see that, I know that I'm on the hairy edge of some back-puffing. Imagine that flash-over is just a little bit bigger, and that the resulting expansion cannot push out thru the cat and up the pipe quickly enough to keep pressure at an acceptable level. That's when it pushes out thru the intakes or the door gaskets.
The difference between your stove and mine, in this regard, may be primarily quickly a large volume of exhaust gas can push out thru the cat. Mine has a cross section of 4" x 7", if I recall, and is 2" thick (z-axis). Perhaps I should start my own thread... unless it's of interest to you Woodstock folk.
fox9988
Minister of Fire
I've never had a back puff. I call this a roll-over, achieved by cutting the draft way down on a hot flaming secondary fire.
Sounds like your cat is about the same size as the one in the Fireview, which is ~30% smaller than the F12. . .maybe that is your problem. The Fv burns like that video of the Keystone. I haven't observed a violent backpuff, but I think Todd had one that lifted the 40-lb lid on his Fv!That's exactly what I see! However, when I see that, I know that I'm on the hairy edge of some back-puffing. Imagine that flash-over is just a little bit bigger, and that the resulting expansion cannot push out thru the cat and up the pipe quickly enough to keep pressure at an acceptable level. That's when it pushes out thru the intakes or the door gaskets.
The difference between your stove and mine, in this regard, may be primarily quickly a large volume of exhaust gas can push out thru the cat. Mine has a cross section of 4" x 7", if I recall, and is 2" thick (z-axis). Perhaps I should start my own thread... unless it's of interest to you Woodstock folk.
melissa71
New Member
I've had my PH backpuff at least twice. One time it was so strong it forced a puff of smoke up through the bottom of the stove pipe. Scared the crap out of me. I don't turn the air down as low as I used to. I thought the logs were burned down enough to dial it back...I was wrong. I like to put nice big pieces towards the back to get a long burn, so I think what happened was the stuff in front outgased and burned down, then there wasn't enough air and flame for the stuff in the back. So there was a build up, then it lit off. When there aren't any flames licking at the wood, I get nervous.
I like to put nice big pieces towards the back to get a long burn, so I think what happened was the stuff in front outgased and burned down, then there wasn't enough air and flame for the stuff in the back. So there was a build up, then it lit off. When there aren't any flames licking at the wood, I get nervous.
Berner
Feeling the Heat
Somebody asked me about my duct/inline fan (sorry, forgot who it was?). Well, it was the smartest thing I did, I installed a duct intake above the stove with an inline fan blowing hot air down to our first floor bedroom. My oil burner thermastat on the 1st floor is set a 64* now, and rarely comes on when the stove is buring and the inline fan is on. Our bedroom below the stove is a staying a very comfy 65 to 70 degrees thru the night. The air coming out the vent is 85 or 90* which is pretty dang cool, no oil burner yet heat blowing out of a duct!
Is this a common thing to do? I'm yet to install my stove on the first floor but was curious if I could somehow get heat down to the basement. Does anyone else have a setup like this?
Is this a common thing to do? I'm yet to install my stove on the first floor but was curious if I could somehow get heat down to the basement. Does anyone else have a setup like this?
Machria
Minister of Fire
I've read a few posts here with people blowing air into other adjacent rooms, but I have not seen any doing what I'm doing. I had no choice as I'm in an upsidown house (great room upstairs, bedrooms down stairs).
Machria
Minister of Fire
I think I may have developed a serious problem with my install?
The weather here has been balmy, spring like. It was 50+ degree's last night and today (maybe Al Gore was right after all?). Well, ever since I have let the stove go cold for over 24 hours now, it had been buring since Dec 21st when I installed it. Well, a few hours after it went cold, I herd a very loud and disturbing noise from below my house, from around the garage/utility room. A few minutes later, I then herd an added noise, sounding like a large fan or blower, and yet I did not turn anything on? ? ? ? Even worse, shorly thereafter we started smelling a terrible but familiar burning petroleum type smell all over the house!
Has anyone else experienced this? Any ideas what the problem might be?
The weather here has been balmy, spring like. It was 50+ degree's last night and today (maybe Al Gore was right after all?). Well, ever since I have let the stove go cold for over 24 hours now, it had been buring since Dec 21st when I installed it. Well, a few hours after it went cold, I herd a very loud and disturbing noise from below my house, from around the garage/utility room. A few minutes later, I then herd an added noise, sounding like a large fan or blower, and yet I did not turn anything on? ? ? ? Even worse, shorly thereafter we started smelling a terrible but familiar burning petroleum type smell all over the house!
Has anyone else experienced this? Any ideas what the problem might be?
I have experienced it and I have a solution for you. Turn down your thermostat and light a small fire! 
- Feb 4, 2007
- 38
That makes a lot of sense.
Wonder if you can expect to see longer cat life due to the fact that the cat is not run as hard. It would be nice. Love reading about this stove. I've still got the functioning cat and my Riteway model 37 from 1980 stored in the shop.
Tony, do you have the new shielded cooktop? People are reporting lower top soapstone temps with the shielded cooktop but it doesn't seem to affect overall output. I'm sure Machria has the shielded cooktop since his stove is so new. That could be the difference.
Waule: Nope, I do not have the shielded cooktop. That makes sense that the temp would be lower with the shield but I thought someone else posted it made little difference to stovetop temps. I am trying to ween myself away from using the stovetop temp to decide when to engage the cat, and use the rear steel flue plate instead since when I use the cooktop there is no stovetop thermometer.
I guess a cat probe would help, but I hate to introduce another gadget into the mix.
I guess a cat probe would help, but I hate to introduce another gadget into the mix.
Even before I got the new shielded cooktop, I frequently ran a soapstone top read temp of under 350, with a clean cat burn. No smoke from the stack. Flue temp likely around 420.
I suspect the shielded cooktop has a lower temp for cooking than the older cooktop. Have only used it a bit, but it seems to take longer to boil, for instance,. Still quick, but doesn't strike me as being as quick as the old top. Just an impression. Never timed.
I have ICC Excel double wall stovepipe and ultrablack chimney. Just installed a probe thermometer in the flue. Seems to consistently run 3x the magnetic temp reading. I'm planning to use this to gauge when to engage my cat. The stove top mag therm is a pain when the soapstone is up for cooktop use.
I ran a hot fire the other day, at least it looked hot and put out nice heat. But the stovetop only got to 450, while the flue probe read 700 for 4 1/2 hours, then dropped to 600???Strange, the flue was much hotter than it usually is, so I guess I was letting heat go up the chimney. Usually my flue temp goes down immediataely the cat engages. Didn't. Didn't rise, but didn't fall. Read the ICC site and it says (Seemingly contradictorily) that the pipe is fine for continuous operation to 1200, but elsewhere states that normai operating temperaure should be kept between 400 and 550
degrees (if I remember properly...may be 50 degrees higher)
EDIT: checked and the manual recommends 300 to 500 degree F flue temp for best operation, least condensation and least creosote formation, so I was way over that).
Mine definitely was hotter than the latter for a long time. The latter temps may refer to the temps that give the cleanest burn while still getting the most heat into the home with the least going up the flue??
Another point in the manual (WHICH I WISH THE INSTALLER HAD GIVEN ME) is that ICC states that the fLue should be thoroughly swept each season WITHIN 48 HOURS OF SHUTTING THE STOVE DOWN FOR THE SEASON. . Wish I had seen this info a few years ago. Don't know what it implies for someone who burns like I do: I am away from my home for a week to 10 days at a time during the heating season on occasion, and , if the home is vacant, obviously shut the stove down for that time. It is too hot to sweep when leave, and when I get back it is (a) way more than 24 hours after shutting down the stove and (b) chilly, and not a time I fell like, on top of everything else upon a return, sweeping the chimney. I always check the screen, the cat, and clean out ash before relighting the stove, but don't really want to add sweeping the chimney....and it probably would not be helpful this long after shutdown...probably just as good to get it hot again, at this point.
I've never had much in the chimney when it has been swept, but I have gone 2 years, and have not had a creosote problem. So, maybe if you know your stove burns cleanly and you have only light colored soot, then you don't need to worry about the sweeping within 48 hours of shutting down the stove ?
May post a thread on this, because I think it is probably important for people who have issues with creosote build up to sweep right away when shutting down for the season. +
I suspect the shielded cooktop has a lower temp for cooking than the older cooktop. Have only used it a bit, but it seems to take longer to boil, for instance,. Still quick, but doesn't strike me as being as quick as the old top. Just an impression. Never timed.
I have ICC Excel double wall stovepipe and ultrablack chimney. Just installed a probe thermometer in the flue. Seems to consistently run 3x the magnetic temp reading. I'm planning to use this to gauge when to engage my cat. The stove top mag therm is a pain when the soapstone is up for cooktop use.
I ran a hot fire the other day, at least it looked hot and put out nice heat. But the stovetop only got to 450, while the flue probe read 700 for 4 1/2 hours, then dropped to 600???Strange, the flue was much hotter than it usually is, so I guess I was letting heat go up the chimney. Usually my flue temp goes down immediataely the cat engages. Didn't. Didn't rise, but didn't fall. Read the ICC site and it says (Seemingly contradictorily) that the pipe is fine for continuous operation to 1200, but elsewhere states that normai operating temperaure should be kept between 400 and 550
degrees (if I remember properly...may be 50 degrees higher)
EDIT: checked and the manual recommends 300 to 500 degree F flue temp for best operation, least condensation and least creosote formation, so I was way over that).
Mine definitely was hotter than the latter for a long time. The latter temps may refer to the temps that give the cleanest burn while still getting the most heat into the home with the least going up the flue??
Another point in the manual (WHICH I WISH THE INSTALLER HAD GIVEN ME) is that ICC states that the fLue should be thoroughly swept each season WITHIN 48 HOURS OF SHUTTING THE STOVE DOWN FOR THE SEASON. . Wish I had seen this info a few years ago. Don't know what it implies for someone who burns like I do: I am away from my home for a week to 10 days at a time during the heating season on occasion, and , if the home is vacant, obviously shut the stove down for that time. It is too hot to sweep when leave, and when I get back it is (a) way more than 24 hours after shutting down the stove and (b) chilly, and not a time I fell like, on top of everything else upon a return, sweeping the chimney. I always check the screen, the cat, and clean out ash before relighting the stove, but don't really want to add sweeping the chimney....and it probably would not be helpful this long after shutdown...probably just as good to get it hot again, at this point.
I've never had much in the chimney when it has been swept, but I have gone 2 years, and have not had a creosote problem. So, maybe if you know your stove burns cleanly and you have only light colored soot, then you don't need to worry about the sweeping within 48 hours of shutting down the stove ?
May post a thread on this, because I think it is probably important for people who have issues with creosote build up to sweep right away when shutting down for the season. +
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