Whitfield died?

[Bugs]

The Triacs I ordered arrived today, the picture with the new auger i posted is with the new plate and the rubber bumper installed. No matter where I locate the bumper the terminal hits the intake, I will look for a rubber pad or something I can use to insulate the 2
All of my wire are numbered to match the terminal locations. The wiring diagram img040.jpg that bob provided matches serial (#wh-41003) range, only difference is the wire direct from the auger and IHL are reversed, but are numbered that way from the factory.
The wire colors from the control box match the schematic colors.

 

[Ssyko]

a piece of an old motorcycle tire if you have one laying around

 

[Stovensen]

The Triacs I ordered arrived today,

The tricky part now is to repair the heat-damaged copper tracks safely. An X-Acto knife with a slightly curved blade is best to scrape clean the tracks. And finding copper wires of the right thickness is important. too. Neither too thick nor too thin. I'm sure an old radio amateur will find the right stuff.

the picture with the new auger i posted is with the new plate and the rubber bumper installed. No matter where I locate the bumper the terminal hits the intake, I will look for a rubber pad or something I can use to insulate the 2

How far from the rubber bumper is the auger gearbox? I mean lengthwise ( or is it called axially?) Isn't it possible to turn the endplate 90 degrees counterclockwise so the auger ( and connectors ) rest far away from the air intake? Those spade terminals leading to the fragile auger field coil should by no means get bumped against anything at all. Not even a motorcycle tire, Ssyko

All of my wire are numbered to match the terminal locations. The wiring diagram img040.jpg that bob provided matches serial (#wh-41003) range, only difference is the wire direct from the auger and IHL are reversed, but are numbered that way from the factory.
The wire colors from the control box match the schematic colors.

Ok, I got that, the series coupled chain ( auger motor, IHL and pressure switch ) is simply reversed in relation to terminals no.5 and no.6 on the terminal strip. No problem, since all is alternating current.

Looking forward to read about your current measurements.

Good luck and take care. Keep posting

 

[Monica in France]

'not even a motorcycle tyre' - absolutely.
And is that the live or the return wire ?
A Serious question as it could be the cause of all our miseries.

 

[Ssyko]

Rotating the mount CCW 1 hole will move everything away from danger. A 1” piece of hard rubber attached to the support bracket “L” of said plate will do the same thing, it would rest on the gearbox and move motor connecttions away from air intake. I used tire because he has bikes

 

[Ssyko]

Disregarding the fact that i will be scolded again for false information. I resurched the part number of the new motor and manufacturer. All the motors i found with GGM pp7000-1 all showed up as .72a FLA/LRA is this a big diff I don’t know. Just more info

 

[Bugs]

I did pick up a few soldering supplies, I’m a little concerned of board fatigue from replacing the triac for the third time.

The new bracket comes with a 1” rubber spacer, the picture w/spade touching is w/spacer. Moving the bracket 1 hole does not get the connector away from the air inlet. Moving it two holes, in my mind the motor would be fighting gravity,
The motor would turn trying to find a stop, auger would never move. And the spade would still be touching. (Of coarse I could be wrong).

 

[Ssyko]

I wouldn’t wory about the gravity Bugs. As long as the connections are claer. Them gear motors are in diff positions on dif stoves. And they don’t free wheel much.

 

[Bugs]

I wouldn’t wory about the gravity Bugs. As long as the connections are claer. Them gear motors are in diff positions on dif stoves. And they don’t free wheel much.

I may not be explaining what I meant well if the weight of the motor is on the other side it will spend all it’s running time trying to pick it up until it rotates to the bump stop. Hmm still sound confusing. Not sure there is a position that they clear. Maybe if the bump stop was another 1/2” it would have 1/8” clearance.

 

[Ssyko]

ok i understand what your saying. it may also feed more pellets if the weight of the motor can spin the auger. i can fabricate you a new plate with stops on both sides if you want to give me the measurements, and put mount holes in any position

 

[Bugs]

ok i understand what your saying. it may also feed more pellets if the weight of the motor can spin the auger. i can fabricate you a new plate with stops on both sides if you want to give me the measurements, and put mount holes in any position

Thanks that’s very kind of u, I have the tools to add stops the problem now is I put a new triac in the board and now no auger :-( everything looks like I have contact, used liquid trace just to be sure. Board lights up as it should, but no auger movement. Either bad triac or bad solder joint. Or maybe my board has had enough hot irons poking it.

 

[Ssyko]

might help before you put more heat to the board

(broken link removed to http://www.completepowerelectronics.com/how-to-test-triac-with-multimeter/)

 

[Stovensen]

Brilliant link you posted there, Ssyko! So all we need to test a triac is a jumper wire and an ohmmeter. This should be easy and also accurate.

Note: The test procedure from the linked site comes in two versions: A dc-version and an ac-version. The dc-version is the first we see, when we click on your link. It is very thorough in describing what happens dc-wise in a triac, so we can easily get lost in all the details. At least I did

Another page on the site gives the general triac-theory, and here we find the ac-version of the test. The two test procedures are basically the same, but my brain gets the best overview when using ac-approach. Here you can study both and judge for yourself. The ac-version to the right is easier for me to understand:

 

[Ssyko]

The first one is basically direction to make a phisical circuit with resistors, led, switch and a 9v bat.. 2nd one is pretty basic and most can fig it out

 

[Stovensen]

2nd one is pretty basic and most can fig it out

Exactly, and the ac-approach is even more related to the actual ac-environment, where the triac operates.

Important information is also the exact identification of the three pins on the triac: Main Terminal 1, Main Terminal 2 and Gate.

Note: Main Terminal 2 is connected to the metal part of the TO220 housing:

 

[Monica in France]

Could a triac give the correct results at 9v DC but fail with 110V AC ?
Put a light bulb in parallel with /instead of the auger motor to test the triac - simpler and more certain.

 

[Ssyko]

It still uses low voltage for the gate. T1 + T2 have ac 120v but I believe the gate uses 5v - 16v from the Prom side to signal it on. Either way it only checks the functionality of the triac. I don’t want to fill the thread with theory again.

 

[Stovensen]

I don’t want to fill the thread with theory again.

Agree. Let's keep it as simple as possible:

To test this device, connect the ohmmeter leads to MT2 and MT1.
The ohmmeter should indicate no continuity ( infinite Ohms )

A shorted/melted triac will indicate zero Ohm between MT1 and MT2 no matter what's happening on the gate

 

[Bugs]

Update, I pulled the triac off the board, this poor board and my novice work on it :-( it seems I have burnt the solder rings out of the pin holes, soldering will be a real challenge to get the triac on the board. Not sure if they can be replaced or if there is a work around.

 

[Ssyko]

Bugs can you post a pic of the damage

 

[Bugs]

Bugs can you post a pic of the damage

Yes, I should be home Saturday and post picture.

 

[Bugs]

This is what the board is looking like after the 4th triac was removed, the silver looking dabs are my attempt to make connection of burnt traces. I will clean the area up for my next attempt #5. It may be time to throw in my hat and get a new board, fuse all the links.

 

[Ssyko]

OUCH! try a little rubbing alcohol and Q-tips/old toothbrush. i think that will clean up and give you one more shot.the top looks like you can still make all the necessary connections. On the bottom the rings that are gone were for anchoring so to speak.


try using an exacto knife and clean the red areas, especially that tin by the resistor

 

[Stovensen]

It may be time to throw in my hat and get a new board, fuse all the links.

The three inline fuses as suggested by Bob are certainly a good idea, but the heat damage on your board is not that serious and certainly not beyond repair.
The anchor points on the other side are gone, so a new anchoring area must be made on that side to ensure safe mounting of the triac.

My suggestion to make these anchor points is based on a piece of "bread board", you know the kind a printed circuitboard used for electronic experiments in the shop. Here in my work shop I have a type of bread board with the right properties to repair your board.
And there's more: The copper traces and holes on this bread board will enable a conversion of the triac-solder-area from double sided to single sided.
This way the soldering will be a lot easier.
I'll try to make a drawing of what my suggestion is about. Too many words are needed to explain the details. A picture or a drawing tells more than a thousand words.
And Bug's if you cannot get the specific kind of bread board I'm referring to, I'll be happy to send it to you via air mail. After all it was me who got you convinced that it would be easy to repair the board. All you have to do is send me your address via the personal conversation on this site.

 

[Bugs]

I frequent several forums, and I don’t think I have had such a awesome group.
The truth is I’m learning a lot about my stove and getting old tools outa storage I haven’t used in years (maybe decades my hack job should be evidence.
I couldn’t ask for more than everyone has provided so far.
I have been getting a few of my supplies from Fry’s electronics they may have what your referring too.
Bob had a great suggestion about the fuses and I’m going to install them before I run the stove again.