Whats your opinion of the GM volt electric car?

[mikefrommaine]

The concept of car loan payments or lease payments is as foreign to me as passing gas at the end of a meal. If $$$ economy is the only consideration, then a focus on the existing high mpg cars with excellent reliability records, 2-5 years old, bought used, driven conservatively, and kept until they fall apart, is the no-brainer way to go. These cars easily run 250,000+ miles without any major repairs, perhaps no repairs other than ordinary maintenance. Mpg's range well into the 30's. And buying this way puts enough money into the retirement account, unless a person is a consumption addict, to kick the job and actually have a retirement.

That's what wife and I have done since 1986, the last new car we purchased. Our current 2007 Camry 4-cyl, 6 speed auto tranny, is spacious, very energetic, and gets 35 mpg on the highway. This is the entry level Camry model, no frills, all car and all transportation, with reliability, comfort, guts, space and very light on the $$$. Out 2005 Camry is just about the same, a little smaller on the inside, 5-speed auto tranny, and 33 mpg on the highway.

The 2005, bought used with about 30,000 miles on it, and 145,000 now, has a minimum of 5 years yet to save us money at our current 20,000 miles/yr driving rate, and the 2007 now with 95,000 miles on it, also bought used, I may be driving as my last car, as another 10-15 years of driving starts to get me pretty close to looking at life from the other side.

For an all-electric car, we need a driving range of about 125 miles, as we live in a rural area about 50 miles from the nearest large city area (90,000 pop). That driving range would cover the majority of our driving.

+1
Our 'new' car is a 2001 civic, just over 100k miles.. Been getting 38 mpg. One time payment of 4200.

Leasing or buying new doesn't make any cents to me.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

If you cant take the tax credit and want the car, be prepared to shell out about $600+ a month in car Pmts.Just another reason to consider a $349 lease.

Wouldn't the $159 lease on the Cruze make way more sense? Some people have enough money to save the planet and some just want to save there financial ass.

It makes more sense if you dont have (or dont want to part with)the money
If its all about the cheapest transportation on the planet i recommend a bicycle. The volt is a luxury car compared to the cruze. Its a high tech ,high end alternative fueled auto.Its not just about getting from point A to point B. Even Cadillac Escalades with their $75000 price tag enjoy brisk sales. If $349 a month puts you in the poorhouse, the car is not for you. There are millions of americans that can easily afford a volt and once the misinformation(they catch on fire)dies down sales will pick up.

 

[btuser]

My last vehicle purchased was a salvaged diesel pickup truck. 10 years ago for 11 grand. Put it back together new and it will last another 10 years before the rust takes it. Tried the veggie oil thing but couldn't get a consistent supply. I figure not only did I keep a car out of a landfill I also kept one from being made.

 

[BrotherBart]

Looks like some "filling stations" are showing up.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...ing-stations/2012/03/12/gIQA7PpgBS_story.html

 

[Seasoned Oak]

My last vehicle purchased was a salvaged diesel pickup truck. 10 years ago for 11 grand. Put it back together new and it will last another 10 years before the rust takes it. Tried the veggie oil thing but couldn't get a consistent supply. I figure not only did I keep a car out of a landfill I also kept one from being made.

That sounds like something i would do BT, but probably wont work for the masses.

 

[Jack768]

I see they've shut down the production line for 5 weeks. Clearly, the masses are embracing this Beltway-decreed project.

 

[jimbom]

....I figure not only did I keep a car out of a landfill I also kept one from being made.

This is really important. Not often discussed, but the key to living a low impact life. Our 1994 and 2003 Camrys are still in daily use. They will be kept as long as they are safe and make economic sense.

 

[jensent]

[quote author="timfromohio" date="1331584861"] If it had a flux capacitor and ran for free I'd not buy one - GM lost my business for life after the CEO went public saying they paid back their Tarp Money (round #1) when in reality all they did was borrow more money from the government at a lower interest rate to pay back the initial loan - the one at the higher interest rate. That combined with a business model that for the last few decades was to milk as much profit as possible off of truck/SUV platforms (the margins on those are huge) while cater to the unions at all costs sort of turned me off. [/quote]

X2
I will never consider a GM or Chryser product again. They both have poor reliability as well. Save the money buy a reliable vehicle and pay cash. Financing is added expence. You earn (a little! ) interest as you save. Think years per car as well as miles per gal.
Tom

 

[btuser]

An electric car is a great idea, charged by an appropriate sized charging motor (in the trunk) and plugged in when you're at home/not driving. I'm interested with the idea of building them into to the grid as a buffer for electric production. It may offset a lot of the grid cost, and avoild the inevitable tax/mile tracking we're going to have to swallow. I would make the leap to drive-by-wire to increase efficiency and design the engine for MPG not standard emmisions controls. A small, cheap (and light) gas or even diesel genset to extend range shouldn't be subjected to the same emmision controls when you're burning so much less. Just to get us over the hump, till buckey-ball batteries are affordable.

Oh my God, where's the spell check on this thing?

 

[Seasoned Oak]

[quote author="timfromohio" date="1331584861"]

X2
I will never consider a GM or Chryser product again. They both have poor reliability as well. Save the money buy a reliable vehicle and pay cash. Financing is added expence.
Tom

I Have driven chevy pickup trucks daily for 30 years,i cant imagine a MORE reliable and trouble free model on the planet. My current daily driver is 17 years old has 175000 miles on it and drives and looks like a brand new truck. I can afford to by a new one but cant justify it when my 95 model does everything so well. I did own a 1999 toyota tacoma that was the WORST truck i ever owned,LEAST reliable worst MPG,rust bucket,glad its gone.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

[quote author="timfromohio" date="1331584861"] If it had a flux capacitor and ran for free I'd not buy one - GM lost my business for life after the CEO went public saying they paid back their Tarp Money (round #1) when in reality all they did was borrow more money from the government at a lower interest rate to pay back the initial loan - the one at the higher interest rate. That combined with a business model that for the last few decades was to milk as much profit as possible off of truck/SUV platforms (the margins on those are huge) while cater to the unions at all costs sort of turned me off.

I look at it the opposite way. If my money is being used to make GM a success then i want to get something for my tax dollars. The only way i can do that is by using their products.Since iv been doing so for 30 years with next to zero problems it not a hard decision. I cant do that by buying a toyota(Who,s Govt also subsidized them as well) Its not easy to deal with unions and the foreign makers bypass them altogether by building in the south.

 

[begreen]

The electric RAV4 will be built in Ontario.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

The electric RAV4 will be built in Ontario.

Im not a toyota fan but they did have a winner with that rav 4 electric. would have been millions on the road if they kept makin em.

 

[timfromohio]

I look at it the opposite way. If my money is being used to make GM a success then i want to get something for my tax dollars. The only way i can do that is by using their products.Since iv been doing so for 30 years with next to zero problems it not a hard decision. I cant do that by buying a toyota(Who,s Govt also subsidized them as well) Its not easy to deal with unions and the foreign makers bypass them altogether by building in the south.

I have an ethical problem in supporting them. Further, if you've ever toured an auto plant of an American manufacturer, seen the work ethic, and then found out what folks get paid you'd be grabbing for the nearest puke bag. I just don't think that operations like this deserve my money either in the form of a puchase or in the form of tax dollars (well in this case, tax dollars of my grandchildren ....)

 

[Seasoned Oak]

I have an ethical problem in supporting them. Further, if you've ever toured an auto plant of an American manufacturer, seen the work ethic, and then found out what folks get paid you'd be grabbing for the nearest puke bag. I just don't think that operations like this deserve my money either in the form of a puchase or in the form of tax dollars (well in this case, tax dollars of my grandchildren ....)

But you have no ethical problem supporting foreign companies(namely toyota and hyundi) whose Govt also bail them out whenever necessary,and also effectively ban american products from their markets while they flood ours with their products costing you and your grandchildren millions of jobs and dollars?.Hmmmmmmm confusing.

 

[velvetfoot]

A guy at work is got a new one on lease. Quite a snazzy looking car. I like hatchbacks too.

 

[timfromohio]

But you have no ethical problem supporting foreign companies(namely toyota and hyundi) whose Govt also bail them out whenever necessary,and also effectively ban american products from their markets while they flood ours with their products costing you and your grandchildren millions of jobs and dollars?.Hmmmmmmm confusing.

I never said anything pro/con about Toyota or Hyundai. I own two Hondas - one built in Alabama, the other in Ontario. To the best of my knowledge, Honda never received and TARP money - they were not listed on any of the recipient lists I checked. So, no I have no ethical problem purchasing great vehicles from a foreign-owned company. Should I have bought a Ford or Chevy built in Mexico just so the profits stay here and reward poor management behavior?

I fail to see how Honda is costing any American jobs - they build cars profitably in this country. Also, GM sells way more vehicles overseas than they do here, by a large margin so I fail to see how their sales overseas are "banned".

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Japan has and does subsidize its own auto industry,which honda is included. What our Govt did with tarp funds is no different.
Japan and South korea are the 2 worst offenders for implementing so many trade barriers most companies have all but given up, all foreign brands not just ours.
I would have an ethical problem buying from a car company whose Govt (Japan and south Korea) effectively thru a myraid of barriers shuts out american made auto products from their market.
But thats just me. Its a mystery to me why so many americans just seem to love bashing american companies when at the same time most also work for or at one.
And that a 60% foreign car market share is not costing us any jobs, besides final assembly of foreign brands with imported parts.

 

[begreen]

A guy at work is got a new one on lease. Quite a snazzy looking car. I like hatchbacks too.

If it was 5 passenger I would be looking at one. I recently heard that the local dealers are discounting them nicely.

 

[macmaine]

Hey gang

Have any of you taken it for a spin?
I have and it is a blast
It is very quiet very fast and quite solid
Just picked up nice red one 2 weeks ago!
Best Car I have ever had.
Now of course I am in the honeymoon phase but....


Things I love about it

1) Made in USA
2) Make your own fuel (Solar hot water here hope to find some funds for Solar PV soon)
3) Unlimited range with gas tank ( Will be using mine mostly on 10-20 mile RT commute: EV range is 30-50 miles)
4) My fuel money will go to CMP utility not OPEC
5) Much better for the environment (Poll who wants to be stuck in a tunnel with volts or with ICE, breathe deep!)
6) Will keep my Prius around ( though admit I have not driven it once in last 2 weeks)
7) Leased which I rarely do to keep options open. likely will get pure electric next purchase

Cost savings
Back of the envelope math
Replacing my Highlander
Highlander 17 mpg = 6 gallons per 100 miles or 60 gallons per 1000 = $240 monthly fuel cost (assume $4.00 a gallon ; this summer they say $5.00 )
Volt 13 KW for 35 miles, 40 KW for 100 miles or 400 KW per 1000 miles = $40 monthly fuel cost (assume off peak 10 cents KWH, some have 5 cents out west)

That means I save $200 a month. This is more than 1/2 the lease payment from fuel savings.
With a LEAF it is even better as you dont have oil changes spark plugs carburetors.


Also I heard the very common and expected dirty coal car argument :
Remember the grid gets cleaner every year as
Solar wind natural gas come on to help retire dirty coal plants and we enforce new Mercury pollution rules.

Also cool website to see what your state uses to keep lights on:
http://instituteforenergyresearch.org/states/


Anyone that wants a test drive let me know I am in Portland area PM me

Peace Tom

 

[timfromohio]

Japan has and does subsidize its own auto industry,which honda is included. What our Govt did with tarp funds is no different.
Japan and South korea are the 2 worst offenders for implementing so many trade barriers most companies have all but given up, all foreign brands not just ours.
I would have an ethical problem buying from a car company whose Govt (Japan and south Korea) effectively thru a myraid of barriers shuts out american made auto products from their market.
But thats just me. Its a mystery to me why so many americans just seem to love bashing american companies when at the same time most also work for or at one.
And that a 60% foreign car market share is not costing us any jobs, besides final assembly of foreign brands with imported parts.

Look at the part content. All companies are sourcing parts from all over the world - a result of globalism, good or bad. I've seen the insides of both union-run American plants where guys sandbag on the job so they can get double time and a half weekend pay and Japanese plants where people actually .... work. The former is not deserving of my money. If the foreign governments want to subsidize my purchase, awesome! Then my kids and grandkids won't incur the debt that we have taken on naitonally subsidizing irresponsibility in our own country.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

I agree on the point the unions,particularly the auto unions have hurt the industry. I have no love for the UAW. But at the same time im proud of american craftsmanship and ingenuity and are nowhere near ready to turn the whole auto industry over to honda,toyota and Hyundai. Despite the UAW the volt is getting awards left and right, the people building that car have a right to be proud. And whoever built that 1995 Silverado i drive every day trouble free as well. Drive whatever you want, but when you start bashing the home team expect some proud americans out there who disagree. I hope my kids and grand kids can work for or own an american company what ever its faults. BTW the unions took some pretty hefty consessions in that bankruptcy so its nowhere near as bad as before.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Hey gang

Have any of you taken it for a spin?

Also cool website to see what your state uses to keep lights on:
http://instituteforenergyresearch.org/states/


Anyone that wants a test drive let me know I am in Portland area PM me

Peace Tom

Way to go tom,we need more guys like you who see the value in american made products.
Especially the part where you replace a TOYOTA with it.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

If it was 5 passenger I would be looking at one. I recently heard that the local dealers are discounting them nicely.

Ditto BG If this baby was an SUV or Ext Cab Pickup there would be one in my garage long ago. I got 3 small kids so i need that third seat plus cargo room. I just dont have a lot of use for a small sedan but its a good start.

 

[begreen]

It looks like there will be several new contenders available shortly.