Whats your opinion of the GM volt electric car?

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But my real point is cost benefit.

Say you drive 50 mi/day 12500 mi/yr

Volt $40,000+ , never buy gas

Honda Fit $15,000 gets 35 MPG, annual fuel cost 1250/yr
 
ALLLRRIDEEE THEN:

Saturn sc-1 known for just a bad radiator cap after cooling fan stops... unattended causes head warp- replace ~ 1400.oo
THIS:
1995
cracked on snow-ground (into sign post) made me give up...
@ 233.000 mi from $3,400. total invested used car costs
and repairs before crash... from purchase mileage at 157,000 = 76000 + miles over 4 years

::: city @ 27 mpg and hwy 33-34 frequently flying over 70 mph, premium 93 gas and syntec oil (only leaked each 400-4500mi change ~ 3/4 quart !) - - - better than a diesel station wagon owned from 144-184,000 mi to trade in

[oh a young repair nut bought the Saturn for 500, as I drove it up the trailer after accident]
 
What is not being considered is the resale value of the car in say 5 years. Will the Volt sell for more than the Fit at that point? And one needs to add up the total costs for the 5 year period and compare one to the other. I'm not saying the Fit wouldn't come out a ahead, but in order to do an ROI you need to have all the costs compared over the same period of time.
 
gtjp said:
But my real point is cost benefit.

Say you drive 50 mi/day 12500 mi/yr

Volt $40,000+ , never buy gas

Honda Fit $15,000 gets 35 MPG, annual fuel cost 1250/yr
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If you leased the volt for $349 a month for 3 years you dont spend anywhere near $40000,even if you buy it Federal and state rebates make the cost much less than $40000. The Honda does not qualify for rebates.
 
Seasoned Oak said:
If you leased the volt for $349 a month for 3 years you dont spend anywhere near $40000,even if you buy it Federal and state rebates make the cost much less than $40000. The Honda does not qualify for rebates.
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Why is the Volt being compared to the Honda Fit?
One is high quality expensive american car. The other is the cheapest car made by a foriegn country which doesn't even have decent fit/finnish according to Consumer Reports.

Furthermore, one is a plug in electric with an onboard generater, the other an ICE. Talk about apples and oranges.
 
Well, in someways it is a 'fitting' comparison. Both handle well, but the Fit is exceptional according to Car and Driver, with it beating a Ferrari F430 Spider F1in the lane change test. They have placed it at the top of its class three times. But more importantly there is a hybrid Fit in Japan and Europe that gets 54 US mpg. And there is an electric Fit in the works that could be interesting.
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2007-honda-fit-sport-page-8
 
I didn't read any prior threads on this subject but my opinion is that they are a complete waste of our resources, period! Each Volt sold costs tax payers approximately $250,000.00
Plus now they are proved junk :P
 
dave_dj1 said:
I didn't read any prior threads on this subject but my opinion is that they are a complete waste of our resources, period! Each Volt sold costs tax payers approximately $250,000.00
Plus now they are proved junk :p
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Opinion noted and summarily dismissed. ()
 
There were people (and still are) who thought the computer was a terrible idea and a complete waste of money
 
It just doesn't make any sense to me to eat up taxpayers money on a project that can't and doesn't end up helping anything. None of the so called green cars get anywhere near the mileage they should or could. They all come with a price, whether it be to the consumer or the taxpayer. WE (this country) can't go on just pouring money onto "ideas". We can walk on the moon, dive to 7 miles deep in the ocean but we can't cure the common cold. Without tax dollars none of this crap would evolve and you all would have to rely on the private sector to come up with good products. Now I'm not saying to stop researching and doing studies but at least be realistic about things and know when to say when!
And thank you for duly noting my opinion, then dismissing it. At least you recognized it!
 
What kind of mileage do you think these cars could or should get?

The Volt gets excellent gas mileage for average use that it was designed for and pretty good mileage even on a trip. Should we just keep plowing tax dollars into subsidizing oil? Note that the Senate just voted to retain these subsidies again, yesterday.
 
dave_dj1 said:
It just doesn't make any sense to me to eat up taxpayers money on a project that can't and doesn't end up helping anything. None of the so called green cars get anywhere near the mileage they should or could. They all come with a price, whether it be to the consumer or the taxpayer. WE (this country) can't go on just pouring money onto "ideas". We can walk on the moon, dive to 7 miles deep in the ocean but we can't cure the common cold. Without tax dollars none of this crap would evolve and you all would have to rely on the private sector to come up with good products. Now I'm not saying to stop researching and doing studies but at least be realistic about things and know when to say when!
And thank you for duly noting my opinion, then dismissing it. At least you recognized it!
Click to expand...
I guesss it depends on your interpretation of "realistic".
This relates to the second quote in my signature.
 
The problem is if we wait until its more cost effective ,there may not be an economy left to save, when oil demand seriously outpaces supply and gas shoots up to unaffordable levels for much of the country its already too late. We need to start making the transition LONG before oil supply reaches the critical level. IMHO Its national security issue as much as economic security.
 
dave_dj1 said:
It just doesn't make any sense to me to eat up taxpayers money on a project that can't and doesn't end up helping anything. None of the so called green cars get anywhere near the mileage they should or could. They all come with a price, whether it be to the consumer or the taxpayer. WE (this country) can't go on just pouring money onto "ideas". We can walk on the moon, dive to 7 miles deep in the ocean but we can't cure the common cold. Without tax dollars none of this crap would evolve and you all would have to rely on the private sector to come up with good products. Now I'm not saying to stop researching and doing studies but at least be realistic about things and know when to say when!
And thank you for duly noting my opinion, then dismissing it. At least you recognized it!
Click to expand...

So you turned down the tax credit for your woodstove install?
 
dave_dj1 said:
It just doesn't make any sense to me to eat up taxpayers money on a project that can't and doesn't end up helping anything. None of the so called green cars get anywhere near the mileage they should or could. They all come with a price, whether it be to the consumer or the taxpayer. WE (this country) can't go on just pouring money onto "ideas". We can walk on the moon, dive to 7 miles deep in the ocean but we can't cure the common cold. Without tax dollars none of this crap would evolve and you all would have to rely on the private sector to come up with good products. Now I'm not saying to stop researching and doing studies but at least be realistic about things and know when to say when!
And thank you for duly noting my opinion, then dismissing it. At least you recognized it!
Click to expand...


how much taxpayer money was eaten up putting a man on the moon? just saying. i personally think electric cars are the future, my issue is that we should be using our own domestic energy as a bridge to get there. forcing this "change' is not gonna make it happen as fast or as well, eventually the technology will catch up to it but the early versions will not be what the mainstream is going to be satisfied with. to be honest this is somthing that should have been worked on "hard" a few decades ago, but it wasnt, now we have a faltering economy high gas prices and all that so the entry into the electric car age is going to be retarded by this, im going to say it again and probably get slammed again, i dont care im used to it by now. this country operates at its best on inexpensive energy, to bring on the transition better and faster , we simply need to fix the economy first, then change it when its healthy. doing somthing like this fast isnt likely to get it done well.
 
No intentions of slamming you Mike. Manufacturing green stuff could be part of what repairs our economy. It's not like Goldman Sachs is going to give back all the money they took, we need to make some more.
 
Dune said:
No intentions of slamming you Mike. Manufacturing green stuff could be part of what repairs our economy. It's not like Goldman Sachs is going to give back all the money they took, we need to make some more.
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i guess its a "chicken/egg " arguement. i agree green energy is important for a multitude of reasons. most rational folks do, i think our disagreement if we would even call it that, is the method of bringing it about. im a "free market" guy even though there are some things about it that piss me off (those things probably chap you even more my liberal friend) i also get chapped about some of the regulations which IMHO tend to overdo it, though i DO believe regulation is a necessity. our bigest stumbling block these days is simple in my mind but complicated in execution. government and the free market need to work better together than they currently are, both sides of the aisle are guilty, the far right want to enter into a "katie bar the doors" free for all, while the far left want to overregulate to the point that the free market cant function in the manner it works best at. until our beloved congress kisses and makes up this will be the pattern that will continue. its sad but its accurate
 
Mike, oil based energy is not going to be cheap any more. That era is past. We are no longer in a world with a glut of cheap 3d world oil. Now there are countries that are going to outbid us for this resource. We are shipping a large amount of our refined oil products to Mexico because they will pay more. We needed a comprehensive energy policy 30 years ago when it was obvious that this was on the horizon. Carter tried, but Regan chose to regress and put the country back on the credit card instead. Now the debt is getting too high. You can't keep kicking this can down the road.

As far as pissing away money, we seem to be experts at this. For example, during the 90's the US gave massive tax credits to companies (ATT, Qwest, etc.) for laying fiber optic cables. How much? About 25 billion in tax credits. Then, in it's infinite wisdom Congress deregulated this industry. Guess what that massive fiber optic infrastructure is doing now... it's about 90% unused and idle.
 
begreen said:
What kind of mileage do you think these cars could or should get?

The Volt gets excellent gas mileage for average use that it was designed for and pretty good mileage even on a trip. Should we just keep plowing tax dollars into subsidizing oil? Note that the Senate just voted to retain these subsidies again, yesterday.
Click to expand...

Well I know there are vehicles in other countries that get 50-60 mph and they aren't considered here because they don't meet emissions. Go figure, they use 66% LESS fuel and yet they aren't fit for our roads.
Years ago there was a guy who invented a carburetor that you could put on a typical car motor (of course that was before emissions and all the computers) that would get you 30-40 mpg. One of the big oil companies bought it up and buried it.
How does the Volt charge? It has an onboard generator that runs on what? I suppose if you didn't have a place to plug it in or fossil fuel to charge it, it would be a giant lawn ornament? I'm thinking that unless you know for a fact that your electricity comes from a river or a wind farm there is dead dinosaurs involved. I know you people don't want to believe that but that is how I see it.
Part of the problem with not getting vehicles that are cleaner (in any way shape or form) is that we (American drivers) want to get from point a to point b as fast as possible and we all want our independence of traveling at our free will. Car manufacturers obliged us by giving us 400hp to get there quicker and burn more fuel doing it. Larger vehicles,
This whole ethanol thing is also ridiculous, force us to burn and inferior fuel so we get less mpg and pretend that the ethanol comes at no cost. A gallon of ethanol takes more than a gallon of dino to produce and deliver.
As far as subsidizing oil, no, cut the tax breaks to big oil, let's get the dino out of this country! I know, not in my backyard. The foothills of the Rockies are said to have one of the biggest oil and gas deposits on the continent but we can't mine that. There is said to be enough natural gas under the state of NY to run the entire country for 30 years but nope. Wind power is too subsidized too so that is not really worth the effort. It all comes at a cost, my pocket should not be the place, at least not forced out of my pocket.
 
Be careful about those European ratings. They test differently than the EPA now and do not directly correlate to real world mileage. If that car were rated by the new EPA criteria it might fall in the 40-45 mpg range. What is impressive that the Volt pulls off a 93mpg rating on electric under this stricter rating and a real world combined rating of 60mpg.

And as far as emissions, hybrids are seriously cleaner burning. The Prius or Volt are magnitudes cleaner burning than some 400 hp muscle machines.
 
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stoveguy2esw said:
im going to say it again and probably get slammed again, i dont care im used to it by now. this country operates at its best on inexpensive energy, .
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Yes it does ,and thats why were advocating inexpensive transportation energy alternative cars ,like electric and CNG. Electric drive as well as CNG that allows transportation at an equiv.rate of about $1 a gallon for gas. Of course to get there you are paying up front costs for cars capable of using these fuels. So if the govt can subsidize big oil,why shouldnt they subsidize electrics, if we were really paying the true cost of gasoline, electrics would not need rebates. IMO
 
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Going electric for vehicle propulsion is about the only practical way to replace fossil fuels with renewable sources.
You could go with hydrogen or bio-fuels but the the former has lots of issues with storage and distribution and all the bio-fuel we can produce is needed for applications where batteries aren't currently practical like aircraft and long haul trucks.
 
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