Progress Hybrid house smoke and OAK

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

Flashbacks are definitely a thing with BK. Talked to half a dozen people that say it happens "not much smoke comes out typically". Even Chris told me that it happens. I'm not going to get into another debate of magical chimney pressure issues when mine match thousands of other stove users. I've measured the draft. It's on the high side all the time. Woodstock told me my chimney is fine. The house is tight and a window needs to be cracked. No mysteries there. The wood is seasoned and dry. Let's not go there.

Assuming that fumes or smoke coming from two different stoves in vastly different situations proves that the stoves are not the problem is a large presumption. I think "doesn't push odors" is very relative. I'll not debate that we are sensitive to any smoke or odors in the house which I think is a big part of the problem.

These are highly regarded stoves, therefore they are flawless? Clearly not, fire_man just linked a series of posts with similar issues. Hope there is more input from PH users.

 

[Highbeam]

Sounds like you already have it figured out.

 

[MissMac]

The house is tight and a window needs to be cracked. No mysteries there.

Indeed. This is the issue. This is what needs to be remedied. You have figured it out.

 

[avsmusic1]

Indeed. This is the issue. This is what needs to be remedied. You have figured it out.

So you're thinking the OAK is the most probable solution?

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

...so cracking the window fixes more severe draft issues. I'm wondering if the OAK will fix the reload smoke (issue #1) or hot smoke issue (issue #2), which still happen with the window cracked. Trying to look if these have been fixed with any other PH users that installed the OAK.

 

[SpaceBus]

I don't think you have much to lose by trying the OAK.

This house tightness thing has me curious. Where is your makeup air coming from when you are burning with the door closed? Our stoves seem to draw air through the weep holes and and sash of our patio sliders. I have the opposite issue where I can have a draft reversal on my exterior chimney when cold starting due to the large cold column of air in the flue and a tight-ish house. Rarely do I ever have any smoking into the house once the stove is lit and the draft is maintained throughout the whole burn, only stalling when the stoves goes totally cold.

Perhaps your smoke issues, especially when loading on hot coals, happens when the draft increases beyond the house's capability of introducing fresh combustion air. Your relief of the issue upon opening the window is evidence that your chimney draft is in fact reversing when the fire can't draw enough air from the inside of your house. If the open window resolves your issue then the OAK should relieve any need to open a window.

I would also guess that you had the same issue before with the BK and could have probably resolved it with an OAK.

 

[begreen]

Is this an exterior chimney? Describe the flue system in detail from stovetop to chimney cap.

 

[wagne223]

Smoke/woody smell over 375⁰F STT: if it's filled over 1/3 full it's near impossible to keep it below 400. The further above 375, the more of this smokey musty type smell builds up in the 2nd floor. It's not a creosote type vapor, that only occurs if the flame goes out

I am a novice burner so forgive me if I'm wrong but that seems like a low SST.
Is it possible that the stove has not been fully cured and the coating is still off gassing ?
I know mine would smoke and have oder cruising at 500 degrees, then one time on a full load of dry wood it took off and reached 800 before I was able to slow it down. Smoked bad even set off the smoke detector.
But after that there is no more oder or smoke even if the temp spikes.

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

Nope, ive got the temps over 600⁰F on several loads and it's had about 3 cords through it. It was running a lot over 500⁰F last year but once 2 family members started getting breathing problems we stopped running it full time with full loads.

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

I described the chimney in the first post.

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

The BK smoke fumes are not at all related to makeup air or the window. It smelled like s**t in our house almost every fire due to the creosote fumes due to low and uncontrollable burn rate regardless of the draft we had monitored for >mo of burning.

I'm definitely happy about the woodstock in that regard, the burn rate is really controllable and consistent.

 

[chipsoflyin]

OAK and be done with it. They are cheap and easy to install

 

[avsmusic1]

OAK and be done with it. They are cheap and easy to install

aside from cost and time, are there any potential downsides?

 

[Highbeam]

OAK and be done with it. They are cheap and easy to install

I agree, just do it, there is no negative other than effort and cost. However, I don’t think that this will mean the OP is “done with it”.

I am very happy with my OAK.

 

[fire_man]

Here is an old Hearth thread on OAKs. Definitely a lively read.

Outside Air Kits, Do you recommend them?

Recently, i have had lots of inquries about outside air kits, i know this has been discussed before, but i thought i would rekindle the discussion. Its my view, that they can be dangerous, expecially in a situation of a poor drafting chimney. I have had customers tell me that they have had smoke...

www.hearth.com

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

The effort is a problem, I'm working about 70hrs a week while we homeschool and watch two little kids 24/7. I have a little break now but trying to get all our basement insulation covered up.

It didn't look like WS sells everything you need to build the OAK, just the adapter. I'd have to go spec out and procure pipe, vent and everything. If anyone found it blocks any of the PH reload smoke I'd be really on board quick.

 

[jetsam]

OP has every stove he brings in reversing draft in alarming fashion. He has "Valley" right in his username. Selling him on a direct connect OAK might be a fairly bad idea- his draft reverses again, and now he has structure fire instead of smoke smell.

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

OP has every stove he brings in reversing draft in alarming fashion. He has "Valley" right in his username. Selling him on a direct connect OAK might be a fairly bad idea- his draft reverses again, and now he has structure fire instead of smoke smell.

Where did you hear that?! I have high positive draft! The window helps a little bit with the draft where on a few occasions the draft was on the lighter side during a cold startup. Otherwise with the smallest bit of heat my chimney drafts to about 0.08in WC minimum and 0.15-0.17in WC with a higher flue temp. Seems like the PH needs > 0.1inWC draft pressure to keep smoke in the stove during every reload, but seems like its bursting smoke out its seams if the draft gets above 0.14inWC.

 

[Nigel459]

...but seems like its bursting smoke out its seams if the draft gets above 0.14inWC.

This makes no sense. Adds to the confusion of this thread IMO. The higher the draft (especially that high!), the less likely it is to bleed smoke from the stove due to negative pressure/“suction” effect... ya?

not sure what’s going on here yet....

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

You'd have to understand a little bit of fluid dynamics to understand perhaps. It's not the draft that causes it to burst out of the seams but speed the air is moving through with rapid expanding gasses. Think about what would happen if water was rushing through the stove instead air with a bunch of rope to seal it off. Just a theory where the smoke is coming from in this case.

The stove is getting hot and burning some amount of exhaust particles into the house, not sure what is confusing about that.

 

[rdust]

You'd have to understand a little bit of fluid dynamics to understand perhaps. It's not the draft that causes it to burst out of the seams but speed the air is moving through with rapid expanding gasses. Think about what would happen if water was rushing through the stove instead air with a bunch of rope to seal it off. Just a theory where the smoke is coming from in this case.

The stove is getting hot and burning some amount of exhaust particles into the house, not sure what is confusing about that.

I may not understand “fluid dynamics” either but your chimney draft isn’t sucking air through the stove so fast that it’s causing your issue. Sorry, that just isn’t happening. “ The chimney is 2ft inside, 2x45⁰, wall exit, tee, 21ft with a 15⁰ around the roof”. I have a hard time believing the draft is too much. The chimney setup is far from ideal. How long is the horizontal run?

 

[ValleyCottageSplitter]

Horizontal run is pretty minimal, less than 24" center to center. From stove exit centerline to ext chimney centerline.

 

[stoveliker]

You'd have to understand a little bit of fluid dynamics to understand perhaps. It's not the draft that causes it to burst out of the seams but speed the air is moving through with rapid expanding gasses. Think about what would happen if water was rushing through the stove instead air with a bunch of rope to seal it off. Just a theory where the smoke is coming from in this case.

The stove is getting hot and burning some amount of exhaust particles into the house, not sure what is confusing about that.

Gas/smoke particles do not travel up the pressure hill; the vacuum you claim to be pulling would prevent smoke leakage.
Moreover, with the "rushing" you describe that should be even more so; read up on Bernoulli s principle.

How certain are you that your pressure measurements are correct?

The window opening that helps is telling; it decreases the difference between the (necessarily, see above) lower pressure in the room where the stove is and the outside.

Something simply does not add up here.

 

[SpaceBus]

The effort is a problem, I'm working about 70hrs a week while we homeschool and watch two little kids 24/7. I have a little break now but trying to get all our basement insulation covered up.

It didn't look like WS sells everything you need to build the OAK, just the adapter. I'd have to go spec out and procure pipe, vent and everything. If anyone found it blocks any of the PH reload smoke I'd be really on board quick.

Can you not order the intake tubing and a dryer vent outlet on amazon?

 

[SpaceBus]

Where did you hear that?! I have high positive draft! The window helps a little bit with the draft where on a few occasions the draft was on the lighter side during a cold startup. Otherwise with the smallest bit of heat my chimney drafts to about 0.08in WC minimum and 0.15-0.17in WC with a higher flue temp. Seems like the PH needs > 0.1inWC draft pressure to keep smoke in the stove during every reload, but seems like its bursting smoke out its seams if the draft gets above 0.14inWC.

If the smoke exits the stove, then the draft has been reversed for some amount of time or you are getting backpuffs. It is impossible for smoke to "leak" out of a stove when it is under negative pressure. I think I remember you being an engineer, and this is a law of thermodynamics.

What does the draft measure when the door is open? This is the critical measurement. If you are having smoke smell on reloads, then the draft has reversed, otherwise all smoke, and smell, particles are drawn up the chimney. Any cracks or "leaks" will allow air to enter the smoke stream, not leave it. 0.1inWC of draft is a ton, most stoves suggest keeping it in the .4-.06inWC range.