The window can be left all the way open and not have any affect on any of this smoke behavior. The Loading door on the stove is clearly contributing to the smoke leakage maybe through 2nd air and/or front pin hole.
Progress Hybrid house smoke and OAK
- Thread starter ValleyCottageSplitter
- Start date
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I apologize I didn't realize the heat was so low on these stoves. I normally wouldn't think about it until the stove gets over 800.
I am trying to figure out what is going on with your setup. It is not typical of ether stove you had. My first step in diagnosing something like this would be for me to go to the house with my wood and kindling and start a fire after fully inspecting the setup. Then do all of my testing of pressures. I really feel the only way you will get any resolution to this is with a good pro at your house.
Why are you leaving the loading door wide open at all for more than a min or so to load the stove?
Not wide open.. I leave it open for less than 10 seconds to reload. MR.GLO suggested to leave the door cracked for a while after reloading. In my case that would make more smoke (but no visible smoke out of the door).
Along those lines bholler. I could do some "probing" of some different pressures, like check the air intake pressure in this scenario or use a flame to see the flow directions. I could do a few experiments like that if I setup the gauge.
Is this your manual?
(broken link removed to https://www.woodstove.com/images/editorial_support/209%20PDFs/209%20Operation%20171011.pdf)
(broken link removed to https://www.woodstove.com/images/editorial_support/209%20PDFs/209%20Operation%20171011.pdf)
Hey Mr. Glo, that is pretty close. That looks like it might be the 2017 version. That is part of the manual, there are several sections.
"So after a reload I leave the air open all the way for ~10minutes until the fire has spread nicely, then I turn down to halfway until the temperature reaches about 400°F, close the bypass, then slowly start to lower the air intake to ~10% open as the stove warms passes 450°F. Usually it's about 500° before I get to the final 10% open. If I turn down much slower than that there is a higher chance for slight smoke leakage during the burn" - Where is this Leakage from? The rear or front door?
Manual....
1. Before you open the loading door, you must fully open the catalytic bypass and the air damper. Wait a minute or so to establish a strong draft. This will help to keep smoke from spilling into the room. 2. Stir up the coals and remove excess ash as needed. 3. Place several small splits on top of the hot coals and allow them to ignite. 4. Load the firebox to capacity leaving space for secondary combustion, with a mix of larger and smaller splits. Close the loading door. 5. Allow the fresh wood to become involved in the fire. With dry wood this may take 5-10 minutes. Rotate the air damper toward the loading door and close approximately half way. 6. Close the catalytic bypass by turning the bypass handle counterclockwise until it stops. 7. You should see the flames from secondary combustion at the top rear of the firebox becoming more active. Adjust the air damper to approximately one quarter open.
1/4 vs 10 percent...Id go just a tad under half way.
Open bypass and air damper prior to reloading stove do this 3-5 minutes before opening door. Nobody waits a minute...not even me.
Manual....
1. Before you open the loading door, you must fully open the catalytic bypass and the air damper. Wait a minute or so to establish a strong draft. This will help to keep smoke from spilling into the room. 2. Stir up the coals and remove excess ash as needed. 3. Place several small splits on top of the hot coals and allow them to ignite. 4. Load the firebox to capacity leaving space for secondary combustion, with a mix of larger and smaller splits. Close the loading door. 5. Allow the fresh wood to become involved in the fire. With dry wood this may take 5-10 minutes. Rotate the air damper toward the loading door and close approximately half way. 6. Close the catalytic bypass by turning the bypass handle counterclockwise until it stops. 7. You should see the flames from secondary combustion at the top rear of the firebox becoming more active. Adjust the air damper to approximately one quarter open.
1/4 vs 10 percent...Id go just a tad under half way.
Open bypass and air damper prior to reloading stove do this 3-5 minutes before opening door. Nobody waits a minute...not even me.
Before loading I open the bypass and air damper for 10-20minutes, then rake coals to the front, then wait about 2-3 minutes for coals to refresh and warm flue as much as possible.
1/4 way for the air damper is for the "high output" instructions. For me 1/4 open with a completely full load will probably overfire or be very close.
I just get a smoky aroma around the whole stove for this main reloading issue. Seems like it could be a little bit in front, the loading door, the back by the heat shield/air intake. Seems to be all the places air can get out. After closing up I usually smell little sprits near the front/glass, right corner of cooktop. I used to have a lot near the right back corner of cooktop and found it was warped. WS replaced it last year. It's significantly better but still can smell a little bit in certain circumstances.
It doesn't not seem to be solely a general "weak draft" issue because it gets worse the hotter the reload and stronger the draft. You can stir the coals and see puffs of sparks vaccumed entirely into the firebox exit but then get horrible smoke aroma all around the stove right before/after the loading door is closed.
1/4 way for the air damper is for the "high output" instructions. For me 1/4 open with a completely full load will probably overfire or be very close.
I just get a smoky aroma around the whole stove for this main reloading issue. Seems like it could be a little bit in front, the loading door, the back by the heat shield/air intake. Seems to be all the places air can get out. After closing up I usually smell little sprits near the front/glass, right corner of cooktop. I used to have a lot near the right back corner of cooktop and found it was warped. WS replaced it last year. It's significantly better but still can smell a little bit in certain circumstances.
It doesn't not seem to be solely a general "weak draft" issue because it gets worse the hotter the reload and stronger the draft. You can stir the coals and see puffs of sparks vaccumed entirely into the firebox exit but then get horrible smoke aroma all around the stove right before/after the loading door is closed.
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The BK Ashford would auto adjust the air intake and run at super low burn rates or flameless once it got hot and get bad creosote smell all through the house. I added 4ft to the chimney and it was close to uncontrollably overfiring. Measured the draft and it was getting over 0.15inWC but still smelling up the house. Replaced the door gasket from BK and had no change to the creosote. Also found many other users unable to resolve it (seems like a "feature"). After >500 posts on hearth.com no one has a solution. I exchanged and then sold the new BK and bought the PH. Certainly an upgrade but unfortunately still not burning clean enough for our liking. If I run the PH at low-low burn rates or flameless I get the same creosote smell, but I can control the flame. If not for this reloading smoke it would have been perfect!
Like I said, this highly distinguished, Chimney Sweep/Installer inspected the chimney in person. Completely fine and confident with the chimney install. Basically said: "No need to take measurements, the chimney are spec'd by diameter/height to work for any stove". I talked with the BK distributor, he didn't help much but kind of thought they could have creosote smell but it should be minor. BK kind of denied for awhile, blamed the chimney initially, then blamed outdoor chimney, after enough evidence eventually broke down and offered me an exchange. "We barely get any returns on these, must be a fluke!"
So no one who didn't have a vested interest in denying fault in their part of the setup?
Btw all those memberships and certifications don't make someone distinguished. It just means they don't mind paying roughly $5000 in dues and certification renewal a year. Ask around get references from people in the area and get someone there who knows what they are doing?
Yep basically. That's what I meant, they had huge number of excellent reviews on multiple sites (HomeAdvisor, Google, etc.). Another hearth.com member had used them and had good feedback to install their BK, I PM'd him and discussed. (but I don't think they seriously used the stove though).
Hey all,
FYI. I have good news this year with our Progress Hybrid. I was considering contacting one of the local Woodstove/Sweep experts in the area but started lighting a few fires first. Then our NG Boiler was found completely dead this winter and we quickly started getting lots of use out of the WS Progress. I'm happy to say it has been warm and relatively smoke free inside!
At the end of the season last year I started playing with lowering the air intake as I was starting to open the loading door. It helped but not perfect. This season I tried a new trick... some people might have to cover their ears for it.... but it is using the ashpan door during reload! I open the ashpan door at the same time as the loading door. This seems to get air directly up into the firebox exit rather than swirling around from the loading door. Then I can fully load the stove with practically no smoke escaping into the house. Then when it's loaded I close the loading door and hold the ashpan mostly closed for about a minute until the flames have built up steady. The smoldering seems to be related to the post-reloading smoke (1 of 2 main issues). I know when the stove is hot at all the ashpan door can blast the firebox and could easily overfire the stove, so I'm very careful to never leave my hand from the handle with the ashpan open and I don't recommend this as a standard operating procedure to others for safety reasons. Might have to replace the AP gasket more often as well but I would happily take that over smoke in the house.
Last Friday night I fully loaded about 30lbs+ of super seasoned hickory and 15lbs of red maple which had about a gallon or two of hot coals after 14hrs overnight. I woke up to it 75°F downstairs and 70°F in the farthest bedroom upstairs where it's hard to get the heat.
Happy heating season for you all.
VCS
FYI. I have good news this year with our Progress Hybrid. I was considering contacting one of the local Woodstove/Sweep experts in the area but started lighting a few fires first. Then our NG Boiler was found completely dead this winter and we quickly started getting lots of use out of the WS Progress. I'm happy to say it has been warm and relatively smoke free inside!
At the end of the season last year I started playing with lowering the air intake as I was starting to open the loading door. It helped but not perfect. This season I tried a new trick... some people might have to cover their ears for it.... but it is using the ashpan door during reload! I open the ashpan door at the same time as the loading door. This seems to get air directly up into the firebox exit rather than swirling around from the loading door. Then I can fully load the stove with practically no smoke escaping into the house. Then when it's loaded I close the loading door and hold the ashpan mostly closed for about a minute until the flames have built up steady. The smoldering seems to be related to the post-reloading smoke (1 of 2 main issues). I know when the stove is hot at all the ashpan door can blast the firebox and could easily overfire the stove, so I'm very careful to never leave my hand from the handle with the ashpan open and I don't recommend this as a standard operating procedure to others for safety reasons. Might have to replace the AP gasket more often as well but I would happily take that over smoke in the house.
Last Friday night I fully loaded about 30lbs+ of super seasoned hickory and 15lbs of red maple which had about a gallon or two of hot coals after 14hrs overnight. I woke up to it 75°F downstairs and 70°F in the farthest bedroom upstairs where it's hard to get the heat.
Happy heating season for you all.
VCS
barnaclebob
Feeling the Heat
Seems pretty reasonable. I have to keep the air lever closed when lighting the stove or smoke will come out of the air intake. I usually get very little smoke out of the door unless I open it fast.
smoke when lighting I think is from a cold flue. If I heat my flue with a harbor freight heat gun it wont smoke upon lighting. about 10 min minimum.
No, the issue was reloading. For a cold start I also heat with a heat gun for about 15min and little to no smoke. I believe like BarnacleBob somehow during reloading it blows exhaust out the air intake or some other openings even though it's pulling good vacuum thru the loading door.
SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
Sounds like weak draft. My cookstove will sometimes want to draft in through the ashpan/grate (which does have an intake slider as well for bottom air) or the open door and vent smoke out of the air wash intake slider, secondary manifold intake, and top of the door opening if the door is open when lighting on a cold stove. If the air from the bottom grate is obstructed while lighting, the draft slows almost instantly and the outdoor chimney will dump it's contents into the stove which then pushes the smoke into the house, momentarily. I don't have the issue on reload, only on a total cold start. I crack my sliding patio door on every cold start, and on still days I use a small floor fan to help pressurize the house.
Some days my Morso is balky, in part due to the massive 8x8 clay flue, and I cheat with the ash pan door. It is certainly unsafe and poses a risk to the stove, but risks can be mitigated. The Morso will only dump smoke into the house if a strong wind blows right down my chimney during a cold start, and that only happens once or twice a season. My draft is only weak on cold starts in either stove, once the draft is established it can be difficult to control. If I'm not quick on the intake controls for either stove they might burn hotter and faster than I intended, despite a weak initial draft.
Your house is probably much tighter than mine and your stove can easily reverse draft on reloads, even if only momentarily and very quickly. We live on a hill side with very few calm days, there is almost always a wind, but in the mornings the air is sometime very still, but only briefly. If you live in a valley the likelihood of an inversion goes up significantly. The fact that you need a heat gun to light without smoke is totally indicative of weak draft on startup.
Some days my Morso is balky, in part due to the massive 8x8 clay flue, and I cheat with the ash pan door. It is certainly unsafe and poses a risk to the stove, but risks can be mitigated. The Morso will only dump smoke into the house if a strong wind blows right down my chimney during a cold start, and that only happens once or twice a season. My draft is only weak on cold starts in either stove, once the draft is established it can be difficult to control. If I'm not quick on the intake controls for either stove they might burn hotter and faster than I intended, despite a weak initial draft.
Your house is probably much tighter than mine and your stove can easily reverse draft on reloads, even if only momentarily and very quickly. We live on a hill side with very few calm days, there is almost always a wind, but in the mornings the air is sometime very still, but only briefly. If you live in a valley the likelihood of an inversion goes up significantly. The fact that you need a heat gun to light without smoke is totally indicative of weak draft on startup.
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