Pacific Energy Super 27 vs. Lopi Endeavor

[webby3650]

Boy, those stoves look clean!

Maybe it's the clean stove I'm addicted to, I thought it was the smell of curing Stove Bright.

 

[Sprinter]

I think I will go with the Endeavor though because the Lopi stove shop is only 20 miles away while the PE stove shop is 70 miles away.

I personally wouldn't make the decision based on that, but it shows how close the decision was. You did your homework well and made a good choice.

 

[isipwater]

I personally wouldn't make the decision based on that, but it shows how close the decision was. You did your homework well and made a good choice.

I have not quite made the final choice and pulled the trigger. I am just wondering how much someone 70 miles away is going to want to come assist me if needed.

I originally got 3 estimates but here are the final two estimates that I am trying to decide between:

 

[webby3650]

I have not quite made the final choice and pulled the trigger. I am just wondering how much someone 70 miles away is going to want to come assist me if needed.

I originally got 3 estimates but here are the final two estimates that I am trying to decide between:

Are both of these firm bids or "Estimates"?

 

[isipwater]

Are both of these firm bids or "Estimates"?

These are estimates. Neither shop has come out to my house yet. The Lopi dealer wants a non refundable $100 deposit to come to the house to give the firm estimate. If I go ahead, they will credit the $100 to my bill. The PE dealer is 70 miles away so, he would not come to the house unless it was to come and do the install. With both dealers, I gave detailed info on house dimensions and provided photos.

 

[webby3650]

These are estimates. Neither shop has come out to my house yet. The Lopi dealer wants a non refundable $100 deposit to come to the house to give the firm estimate. If I go ahead, they will credit the $100 to my bill. The PE dealer is 70 miles away so, he would not come to the house unless it was to come and do the install. With both dealers, I gave detailed info on house dimensions and provided photos.

Wow, that's odd. Typically, at least I thought, they would want to come out to see the job. Estimates don't usually require you to spend money. See if the Lopi Dealer will come out for free, let him know how serious you are. I'd say this policy is costing them more than he is possibly saving.

 

[isipwater]

Wow, that's odd. Typically, at least I thought, they would want to come out to see the job. Estimates don't usually require you to spend money. See if the Lopi Dealer will come out for free, let him know how serious you are. I'd say this policy is costing them more than he is possibly saving.

I have never had a stove before, so this is new to me. I do find it confusing that I am going to spend around $4000 dollars but I can't get the dealer to come to my house without charging me. I guess they must be doing really good business...?

 

[webby3650]

I guess they must be doing really good business...?

This time of year?

 

[Sprinter]

The Lopi dealer wants a non refundable $100 deposit to come to the house to give the firm estimate

Oh, that would be a red flag to me. None of the dealers I talked to did that and I was about 50 miles from the one who I bought from. I would think site inspections would be normal business.

Another option may be to find a certified sweep who could do the install including supplying the parts. He may come out and give you a firm estimate because he won't care who you buy the stove from.

Don't do a deal without a firm bid from somebody, though. There can be all kinds of gotcha's that require a site inspection to find.

 

[isipwater]

Oh, that would be a red flag to me. None of the dealers I talked to did that and I was about 50 miles from the one who I bought from. I would think site inspections would be normal business.

Another option may be to find a certified sweep who could do the install including supplying the parts. He may come out and give you a firm estimate because he won't care who you buy the stove from.

Don't do a deal without a firm bid from somebody, though. There can be all kinds of gotcha's that require a site inspection to find.

Thanks for the feedback. I did have two other places who came to the house but I was not impressed with them. Neither wanted to go up in the attic and inspect where piping would go. Plus their prices were much higher.

 

[Sprinter]

Thanks for the feedback. I did have two other places who came to the house but I was not impressed with them. Neither wanted to go up in the attic and inspect where piping would go. Plus their prices were much higher.

This is just a single level ranch, right? No complications? They may not have to go into the attic, but they certainly would want to look at it from the access at least.

BTW, both of those installation labor estimates seem high to me, although maybe it's a regional thing. My installation cost not including the materials was about $400 for a similar situation. My Super 27 was less than $3100 total including tax. Although your material cost will probably be more since my total flue length is only 13' or so. The stove price seems about right for the PE. Not sure about the Lopi. Sounds like you may be in a tough area.

If you want to find a certified installer, take a look at these websites: They may help you find one in your area.
http://www.csia.org/
http://www.ncsg.org/

 

[jensent]

Have used our Lopi Endeavor for 9 seasons. Pipe from the stove to the chimney is double wall telescoping. We can clean the chimney without going out on the roof. Our wood is what the tree service drops in the side yard. Elm, Ash, Mulberry , Soft maple etc. Wood is c/s/s for 3 summers before it is burned. Cleaned the chimney after the first winter and got less than a cup of dry powder. We now clean every 2 or 3 years. Same results. We split by hand for the exercise. (I'm 68yo) Try to keep all splits less than 3in thick. Noodle the ugly pieces so I don't have to get the splitter out of the garage. Our natural gas bill runs about $400 per year for dryer, water heater and furnace. The stove heats the house 24/7 without using the furnace as long as I do my job and the wind isn't bad and temp stay above 15F or so. House is about 2400 sq ft , built in 1940, and a constant remodeling project since we bought it in 1972. We are 90mi sw of Chicago. Would buy an Endeavor again in a heart beat.
Tom

 

[eclecticcottage]

We've got the Republic 1750. Don't really find we're lacking for not having the bypass, and we've got a single story so we don't have much of a chimney compared to some folks (15' maybe). Nice stove, but if the Sirocco was available and I'd even heard of BK at the time, I'd likely have gone with that for the burn times (mostly the low and slow burns for shoulder season since we heat with wood). We just finished up year two and expect as we get into the two year seasoned wood we'll be even happier with the stove-and since we put up about 70 face cords we shouldn't have to deal with subpar unseasoned stuff again! Now I'm afraid we'll heat ourselves out of the place, lol.

We originally had a contract for the Endeavor but changed it to the Republic to save some $$. Thought about the Answer but it didn't have the burn time we needed, and then found the Republic (which the dealer somehow forgot to mention). I prefer the looks over the steptop Endeavor now for our house (simple cottage) but it might be plain for some places. Even the legs are pretty basic looking.

This is the Republic around Christmas time:

 

[isipwater]

This is just a single level ranch, right? No complications? They may not have to go into the attic, but they certainly would want to look at it from the access at least.

BTW, both of those installation labor estimates seem high to me, although maybe it's a regional thing. My installation cost not including the materials was about $400 for a similar situation. My Super 27 was less than $3100 total including tax. Although your material cost will probably be more since my total flue length is only 13' or so. The stove price seems about right for the PE. Not sure about the Lopi. Sounds like you may be in a tough area.

If you want to find a certified installer, take a look at these websites: They may help you find one in your area.
http://www.csia.org/
http://www.ncsg.org/

Thanks. I do live in a part of the country where there is a high cost of living, so I am not surprised about the high labor costs. Unfortunately, most things are more expensive here, south of Boston.

I live in a one level ranch with 8' ceilings. From Ceiling to roof it is another 4'. Since I am having it installed in a central location, the chimney will go 2' higher than the peak. All pipe will be double walled since I have small clearances.

I will check out the certified installer websites.

 

[begreen]

Double wall is a good choice with a short chimney, regardless of clearances.

 

[isipwater]

We've got the Republic 1750. Don't really find we're lacking for not having the bypass, and we've got a single story so we don't have much of a chimney compared to some folks (15' maybe). Nice stove, but if the Sirocco was available and I'd even heard of BK at the time, I'd likely have gone with that for the burn times (mostly the low and slow burns for shoulder season since we heat with wood). We just finished up year two and expect as we get into the two year seasoned wood we'll be even happier with the stove-and since we put up about 70 face cords we shouldn't have to deal with subpar unseasoned stuff again! Now I'm afraid we'll heat ourselves out of the place, lol.

We originally had a contract for the Endeavor but changed it to the Republic to save some $$. Thought about the Answer but it didn't have the burn time we needed, and then found the Republic (which the dealer somehow forgot to mention). I prefer the looks over the steptop Endeavor now for our house (simple cottage) but it might be plain for some places. Even the legs are pretty basic looking.

This is the Republic around Christmas time:

What a beautiful photo! I also like the looks of the 1750 b/c it is simple. Do you regret not getting the Endeavor and not having the bypass damper? How is it cleaning the 1750?

 

[isipwater]

"Don't do a deal without a firm bid from somebody, though. There can be all kinds of gotcha's that require a site inspection to find."


Yes, this has been frustrating, not being able to get the stove shop installers to my house. On the positive side, both stove shops I am dealing with come well recommended both by people I know and with online reviews, including Angie's list. However, when I am about to spend $4000, I expect more attention.

 

[Woody Stover]

when I am about to spend $4000, I expect more attention.

That's not the way they see it. You will easily save that much money, and more, with the stove so you are actually spending nothing. They are doing you a favor.

 

[eclecticcottage]

What a beautiful photo! I also like the looks of the 1750 b/c it is simple. Do you regret not getting the Endeavor and not having the bypass damper? How is it cleaning the 1750?

Thanks!

Not at all. I don't really have a comparison having never had a stove before, much less one with a bypass damper. If you open the door really quickly you can get a little smoke in the room, but most of the time I think it would have been a waste-and then there's the control for it sticking out of the side of the stove. visually kind of ugly although I am sure you get used to it, to a point of not really noticing it. My one complaint, and this goes for all Lopis stoves I think (since our gas stove was the same)-the blower is NOISY. It is an absolute embarrasment that Lopi even allows them to be sold with how loud and rattley they are. It makes an expensive stove seem like a cheap knock off when it's rattling away. Considering our gas stove was 11-12 years old and had the same problem, I don't guess they are motivated to fix the problem either. Other than that, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the stove at all. We can load n/s or e/w (although 99% of the time we load n/s).

 

[webby3650]

I'm not sure why your blower is so noisy? It's not normal for lopi blowers to be louder than any other brand.

 

[eclecticcottage]

I don't know about that-the one on our Heritage Bay DV was noisy from day #1, and the replacment we put in a few years ago when the first one died wasn't any better. This one has also been awful-I'm not sure what terms to use, but if you search this forum you'll see it's brought up by other Lopi owners as well. It's not the air moving that's loud, it rattles like crazy, and the noise changes as it goes whether you change the speed or not. I have a video somewhere I meant to upload to youtube, I'll have to see if I still have it and get it uploaded. I never took one of the DV stove, but it was pretty much the same.

 

[begreen]

Do they use the same blower on wood burning Lopi stoves? FWIW, I can say that the PE blower is pretty quiet, especially on medium and lower speeds.

 

[webby3650]

Do they use the same blower on wood burning Lopi stoves? FWIW, I can say that the PE blower is pretty quiet, especially on medium and lower speeds.

Lopi blowers are quiet on low and medium as well. I think some people think that the blower is loud because they don't have another blower really to compare it to. But they are comparable. If the blower speed variates, or rattles like crazy their dealer should replace it under warranty.

 

[begreen]

Good to know, I was thinking something like a loose rear shield could be the source of the rattle.

 

[Grisu]

Do they use the same blower on wood burning Lopi stoves? FWIW, I can say that the PE blower is pretty quiet, especially on medium and lower speeds.

With my Super it is noticeable but does not bother us watching TV etc. I have it on low pretty much all the time; would actually be ok if I could reduce the speed even further. I always thought a blower was not really needed with a freestanding stove like the Lopi?