Ok, what do I need to make my saw cut better?

[Jon1270]

You'll have relatively few choices of NK bars, and very few NK chain options. The rails on a NK bar will be narrower, so they'll wear faster than an otherwise similar standard-kerf bar.

Basic laminated NK bar

Nicer solid, replaceable-tip, standard-kerf bar

(broken link removed to http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stihl-23RS66-16in-Chainsaw-Saw-Chain-B17Q3-/332019306698?hash=item4d4de490ca:g:qdcAAOSwknJXzeu1)

 

[nola mike]

How about this more budget combo?
Oregon Pro-lite knock off
Oregon LPX chain

 

[Jon1270]

No idea on the Silver Streak bar.

That's a low-vibration chain, and is probably a little slower when the bar's nose is buried. If you're not trying to win a race, it looks like nice chain.

 

[nola mike]

No idea on the Silver Streak bar.

That's a low-vibration chain, and is probably a little slower when the bar's nose is buried. If you're not trying to win a race, it looks like nice chain.

What would be a faster cutting chain? Thought this one and the stihl rs were the ones to be looking at?

 

[Jon1270]

What would be a faster cutting chain? Thought this one and the stihl rs were the ones to be looking at?

Honestly I wouldn't sweat it too much, but equivalents to the Stihl 23RS I linked to would be Oregon 33LG and Woodland Pro 20Rc.

 

[woodhog73]

Honestly I wouldn't sweat it too much, but equivalents to the Stihl 23RS I linked to would be Oregon 33LG and Woodland Pro 20Rc.

I agree don't sweat it

But to clarify and to the best of my knowledge based on my memory but that's not always accurate.....the 33lg is older chain and the LPX was introduced as a better chain because of it's superior anti vibration characteristic. Infact it's the smoothest .325 chain I have ever run and I personally like it better than stihl RS chain. Although it dulls quicker as many have pointed out because it's probably not as hard of metal.

I would not personally run the 33 lg over the LPX. I've not noticed any cutting difference speed, even with bore cutting.

But Jon's right don't sweat it at the end of the day they are all real close. More important is keeping the chain sharp and the rakers in check.

If you want a top 3 or 4 pick for fastest cutting chain and also want the smoothest chain then the LPX is probably the most clear option.

If you don't care about vibration then perhaps grab the Stihl RS or that 33LG chain . But LPX is what I run in .325 and I've run probably all of them at various times and it's just my personal favorite.

 

[sportbikerider78]

Awesome thread....could you guys give me some options for my Echo 450CS running a stock semi-chisel chain?

I keep it plenty sharp and it is a strong saw...but I think I'm missing out on some speed. It is about that time for a new chain.

 

[nola mike]

yah, you're right about the 33 lg being older/nla. Also slower according to this thread, which is interesting.
I think I'm doing way too much reading on something that probably doesn't make much difference for the cord or two a year I buck. Now I'm waffling on the full or semi chisel

 

[Jon1270]

Now I'm waffling on the full or semi chisel

Get one of each. You need more than one anyhow.

 

[Jon1270]

Awesome thread....could you guys give me some options for my Echo 450CS running a stock semi-chisel chain?

I don't know the pitch or gauge of the chain that comes standard on that saw, but there's a good chance it runs the same sort of chain we've already been talking about.

 

[Dairyman]

yah, you're right about the 33 lg being older/nla. Also slower according to this thread, which is interesting.
I think I'm doing way too much reading on something that probably doesn't make much difference for the cord or two a year I buck. Now I'm waffling on the full or semi chisel

Just note that those test where done with a more powerful saw than yours. On your saw lpx may be faster or maybe the 95txl. As far as semi vs. full chisel.... Try a loop of each & see what you like.

 

[nola mike]

Sure, one of each.... For science!
Now, I thought the 20bpx was the semi chisel, but it's listed on the Oregon site as safety chain, while the lpx is not.
20BPX066G
Is this the stuff?

 

[Dairyman]

It is.

 

[nola mike]

Ok, bought all of the above. I'm going to make timed cuts with the oem setup, and then the new bars and chains. Will keep everyone updated

 

[Jon1270]

Now, I thought the 20bpx was the semi chisel, but it's listed on the Oregon site as safety chain

20BPX is semi-chisel. As to whether it's "safety" chain, that's a grayer area. We talk about safety and non-safety chain as if it were a binary distinction, but really it would make more sense to divide chain types into three categories rather than 2.

Full-on safety chain, with huge bumpers out in front of the rakers, is the stuff that everyone loves to hate -- models like Oregon 33SL or Stihl's 23RM2. If you meet one of those chains in the wilderness, kill it with fire. Fortunately those models have become fairly uncommon in recent years. I doubt my Stihl dealer has any RM2 on the shelf.

Between that nasty old-school safety chain and the much more aggressive "professional" chain that has tiny little rakers are the very popular and quite nice low-vibration chains that have a pivoting ramp next to and leading up to the raker -- models like the LGX and BPX recommended above, or Stihl's RS3 and RM3. That ramp makes them smoother, less grabby (thus a bit safer) and maybe a tiny bit slower, but not so much that it's going to bother you if you're not trying to win a race.

 

[nola mike]

Thanks for the education. The bpx is listed as ansi low kickback, while the lpx is not. Where then does the stock 95vp fit into the continuum?

 

[woodhog73]

As to whether it's "safety" chain, that's a grayer area.

Full-on safety chain, with huge bumpers out in front of the rakers, is the stuff that everyone loves to hate -- models like Oregon 33SL or Stihl's 23RM2. If you meet one of those chains in the wilderness, kill it with fire. Fortunately those models have become fairly uncommon in recent years. I doubt my Stihl dealer has any RM2 on the shelf.

Between that nasty old-school safety chain and the much more aggressive "professional" chain that has tiny little rakers are the very popular and quite nice low-vibration chains that have a pivoting ramp next to and leading up to the raker -- models like the LGX and BPX recommended above, or Stihl's RS3 and RM3.

I think you meant LPX not LGX above. LGX is another discussion

Stihls RM3 replaced RM2 chain. Both are safety chain and comply with the US requirement that all saws 55cc and under must be sold with stock. Both SUCK !

Oregon LPX is not safety chain. The anti vibe bumpers should not be confused with low kick back feature. The cutter tooth is placed as such there is no effect on cutting speed due to the anti vibe bumper.

If you want fast cutting chain stay away from any chain listed as low kickback. It's not just marketing hype, the manufacturer has to meet certain requirements in the US to sell chainsaw chain as low kick back. Any low kick back chain is going to cut much slower than non low kick back. Also low kick back chain is same as safety chain

 

[Dairyman]

Thanks for the education. The bpx is listed as ansi low kickback, while the lpx is not. Where then does the stock 95vp fit into the continuum?

Thats is a bit confusing in regards to the bpx. It is the same chain except for being semi chisel. Perhaps it's because it's a little less grabby IDK. The 95 vpx & txl will be in the same class as the bpx.

 

[Dairyman]

I think you meant LPX not LGX above. LGX is another discussion

Stihls RM3 replaced RM2 chain. Both are safety chain and comply with the US requirement that all saws 55cc and under must be sold with stock. Both SUCK !

Oregon LPX is not safety chain. The anti vibe bumpers should not be confused with low kick back feature. The cutter tooth is placed as such there is no effect on cutting speed due to the anti vibe bumper.

If you want fast cutting chain stay away from any chain listed as low kickback. It's not just marketing hype, the manufacturer has to meet certain requirements in the US to sell chainsaw chain as low kick back. Any low kick back chain is going to cut much slower than non low kick back. Also low kick back chain is same as safety chain

Not all low kickback chains are slouches. Stihls ps3 has always out performed ps out of the box in every comparison I've seen. And the newer styles generally do just as well as their non safety counterparts when cross cutting.

Like it or not we're slowly moving in the direction of all chain being low kickback. Even lgx & rs are more "safety" than their predecessors due to the enlarged depth gauge. The good news is that they are reducing vibration in the process.

 

[Jon1270]

Stihls RM3 replaced RM2 chain. Both are safety chain and comply with the US requirement that all saws 55cc and under must be sold with stock. Both SUCK !

Gotta disagree with you there; I don't have nearly the problem with RM3 as I do with RM2. That said, most of the chains I've got hanging around are RS (chisel) variants rather than RM, and I have very little hands-on experience with the newest models of Oregon chain because I have this ridiculous pile of older chains that came with broken saws that I've fixed and sold. I rarely have reason to buy new chain. I did get LPX and LGX confused above, but it's easy to find debates on AS about which of those is better, and it doesn't look like they even make LGX in .325.

When the bar nose isn't buried in wood, I've found that most chain cuts well if it's sharp, tooth lengths and angles are consistent and raker heights are correct, and learning to maintain all of that is more important and more challenging than shopping for the super-duper-est chain design. Even the evil Oregon Vanguard is perfectly respectable so long as you have a grinder; I would sooner scrap a loop of that stuff before I'd hand-file those bent rakers.

For someone (like me or the OP) who cuts just a couple of cords a year for home firewood, I can't see it mattering quite this much. I get a lot of satisfaction from a nice saw in good tune -- easy starting, crisp throttle response, listening to it dip in and out of four-stroking on heavy cuts -- with a stream of clean chips or noodles dropping out of the clutch cover. And it's fun when I have an excuse to bore-cut. If I get all of that, I could care less about the stop watch.

 

[nola mike]

Sigh. Well then I'm full circle. I just wanted my new saw to cut as well as the less powerful one. Here's a better shot of the jd chain. Looks like 1/4" 0.50. Can someone tell me about what this would compare to? Per my father in law, this thing hasn't been used in at least 20 years...

 

[Jon1270]

It's unlikely to be 1/4" chain. Pull it away from the bar and tell us what number is stamped on the drive links.

 

[CincyBurner]

A few observations running my Stihl MS 260 for several years:
I've run safety chain (green chain), as well as pro chain (yellow) - RS (Rapid Super full-chisel) and the RM (Rapid Micro semi-chisel) and noticed a marked improvement in cutting, but definitely more "grabby" so beware and make sure you are an experienced, safe cutter.
* Keep chain sharp/ maintained. This is probably easiest and greatest increase in performance improvements.
I use two sharpeners - Timberline saw sharpener and Pferd Chain Sharp CS-X. The Timberline uses a carbide rotary bit that leaves a consistent, and wickedly sharp edge. It has guides that permit sharpening at angles of 20* (less aggressive, for hardwood and frozen wood), 25* (standard), and 35* (aggressive for softwood and larger displacement pro saws). I tried 35* but this definitely reduces the number of sharpenings for a chain.
* Periodically check and sharpen teeth to equal length. After many sharpening with a particular chain, one side of the cutters or individual teeth, will begin to vary in length causing vibration and stress to chain and saw. Use micrometer to measure and locate the longest teeth (right and left side). Sharpen until all teeth same same length. Makes a big difference.
* Keep depth gauge at proper height. The Pferd chain saw sharpener guide is a great sharpener especially for the field that simultaneously sharpens cutter teeth and dresses depth gauge. Stihl caries a variant that is orange.
* I sporadically cut and not that much with my personal saw, so I started using canned fuel mix. Saw seems to run better.

 

[CincyBurner]

Use micromete

Sorry, dial caliper

 

[dougand3]

As Jon says, go to the drive link riding inside the rails for chain ID. 72 is one = 3/8 .050. 91 = 3/8LP .050. I THINK 25 on the raker means raker should be .025" below cutter height.