Norway on track to reach 100% EV sales in the next 2 years

[Ashful]

Can you show us and data showing that fires in EVs are more common than fires in ice vehicles?

Both with and without Pontiac Fierro's in the count!

 

[GrumpyDad]

Can you show us and data showing that fires in EVs are more common than fires in ice vehicles?

The National Fire Protection Association notes one EV fire in Texas required more than 30,000 gallons of water after a crash.

Yikes!

How Much Should You Worry About EV Fires?

Fires involving electric cars often make the news, but let's take a look at how frequent they actually occur—and whether you should fret over their possibility.

www.autoweek.com

 

[bholler]

The National Fire Protection Association notes one EV fire in Texas required more than 30,000 gallons of water after a crash.

Yikes!

How Much Should You Worry About EV Fires?

Fires involving electric cars often make the news, but let's take a look at how frequent they actually occur—and whether you should fret over their possibility.

www.autoweek.com

I honestly don't know why they keep putting water on them. Just contain the fire and let it burn out.

 

[SpaceBus]

They don’t rely on corporate sponsorship.

Who is they? Where do they get data from?

 

[SpaceBus]

The National Fire Protection Association notes one EV fire in Texas required more than 30,000 gallons of water after a crash.

Yikes!

How Much Should You Worry About EV Fires?

Fires involving electric cars often make the news, but let's take a look at how frequent they actually occur—and whether you should fret over their possibility.

www.autoweek.com

Did you read the article? It actually has great stats on vehicle fires. Pretty much saying everything I've said here. Seems like the issue is that nobody knows how to handle these EV fires and the OEMs haven't put out any guidelines. However, the NHTSA is forcing them to do so. It probably won't make the news because it's not as exciting as cars on fire.

 

[Ashful]

Did you read the article?

I did. I'm glad you were able to find some hard numbers, but do wish they had factored age into the equation, somehow. With the average age of cars registered in the USA now creeping above 12 years, the stat's are obviously comparing more newer BEV's to more older ICE's, just due to the recent increase in BEV sales. But still good data.

It's interesting the numbers on hybrids are so high, initially not surprising because they're a BE + ICE in one package, but also when considering the relative ages. Prius sales were huge 15 years ago, diminishing every year thereafter, that being the best selling hybrid ever in this country.

 

[SpaceBus]

I did. I'm glad you were able to find some hard numbers, but do wish they had factored age into the equation, somehow. With the average age of cars registered in the USA now creeping above 12 years, the stat's are obviously comparing more newer BEV's to more older ICE's, just due to the recent increase in BEV sales. But still good data.

It's interesting the numbers on hybrids are so high, initially not surprising because they're a BE + ICE in one package, but also when considering the relative ages. Prius sales were huge 15 years ago, diminishing every year thereafter, that being the best selling hybrid ever in this country.

These stats are actually x fires/100k new cars sold. This doesn't even take into account 12 year old cars.

 

[bholler]

These stats are actually x fires/100k new cars sold. This doesn't even take into account 12 year old cars.

Yes but are those fires only in those 100k vehicles or all vehicles on the road?

 

[SpaceBus]

Yes but are those fires only in those 100k vehicles or all vehicles on the road?

Interesting observation, the source for the article, https://www.autoinsuranceez.com/gas-vs-electric-car-fires/, doesn't really specify the age of vehicles burned. However, the recall data might be more relevant to the discussion of new car fires. The risk is clearly higher with new ICE equipped vehicles compared to EVs. I wish the hybrid stats were broken down by plug in it not.

 

[bholler]

Interesting observation, the source for the article, https://www.autoinsuranceez.com/gas-vs-electric-car-fires/, doesn't really specify the age of vehicles burned. However, the recall data might be more relevant to the discussion of new car fires. The risk is clearly higher with new ICE equipped vehicles compared to EVs. I wish the hybrid stats were broken down by plug in it not.

Oh I agree the risk is higher and I will read through the source data to try to figure it out. The numbers seem really high for ice and hybrids though so I think it must be fires in all vehicles on the road

 

[Ashful]

Yeah, I think bholler nailed it. They are scaling against cars sold, but not likely excluding any vehicle from the count based on age.

 

[Ashful]

Interesting observation, the source for the article, https://www.autoinsuranceez.com/gas-vs-electric-car-fires/, doesn't really specify the age of vehicles burned. However, the recall data might be more relevant to the discussion of new car fires. The risk is clearly higher with new ICE equipped vehicles compared to EVs. I wish the hybrid stats were broken down by plug in it not.

Based on only casual observation, I'm expecting to find that the in-transit risk of fire is higher on ICE's, but the parked charging risk of fire is higher on BEV's and PHEV's. Unfortunately, data making that delineation hasn't been easy to find.

 

[GrumpyDad]

Both with and without Pontiac Fierro's in the count!

yea it was something like 1/400 caught fire or something. But after digging into that and talking to dealers, they said that was heavily embellished. NO! That can't be! People dont lie in business! Or ...cough...the government!
I never once saw a fiero on the side of the road or in the news that caught fire.
I was able to get mine a bit cheaper because of the fear mongering though.

The GT's were the coolest looking cars at the time. I loved that look.

Do you remember the kits you could put on to make them look like a ferrari?

 

[Ashful]

Do you remember the kits you could put on to make them look like a ferrari?

Yeah, you'd see a lot of them at car shows in the early 1990's. But every one I ever saw was only good enough to fool teenagers and non-drivers, when seen in-person. I remember one guy in my town had one, and was harassed about it by both friends and foes, to the point where it ruined all his fun.

 

[GrumpyDad]

I honestly don't know why they keep putting water on them. Just contain the fire and let it burn out.

yea isnt that kinda counterintuitive to put water on it? Wouldnt that just wash toxic stuff all around? It's going to continue to BURN....
It reminds me of potassium dropped in water.

I dont even know how you would contain it. And I wonder how toxic the air around those burning batteries would be.

Are we heading to the point that we have to quarantine off a 1 mile sq area due to a burning electric car? Possibly! Imagine if one burns in the middle of a city.

I recently went on a road trip that took me almost 2k miles! It was a decent trip with the exception of the city loops that I couldnt avoid (2-3) and those guys with their civics zipping in between traffic. I saw probably 8 areas where it was obvious a car caught on fire and damaged the pavement. Who knows how long those pavement scars last for, but most of the roads that I drove on were fairly newly paved in the last 5 years or so. Millions and millions of cars have been on that road.

 

[bholler]

dont even know how you would contain it. And I wonder how toxic the air around those burning batteries would be.

Just keep it from spreading

 

[Ashful]

There are various dry foams and chemicals used to put out electrical transformer fires, where water is a no-go. I suspect the handling of BEV fires will migrate this way, either sharing the same products with electric utility equipment fires, or even seeing new and better products developed to target them. Cost, space on the trucks, other factors will dictate specialized versus shared solutions.

 

[GrumpyDad]

There are various dry foams and chemicals used to put out electrical transformer fires, where water is a no-go. I suspect the handling of BEV fires will migrate this way, either sharing the same products with electric utility equipment fires, or even seeing new and better products developed to target them. Cost, space on the trucks, other factors will dictate specialized versus shared solutions.

Im kinda curious how I will end up charing my EV if I get one. I have a two car wide driveway but a garage that isnt big enough to fit two cars, unless you go with small cars and dont own a ton of stuff/shelves. So Id likely park it in the driveway and have to run a cable to it and then bring it back up afterwards when done. So Im kinda curious if Im going to put the charger outside and what that would look like, or inside and run the cable under the garage door. Eventually the pressure from the garage door slamming on it will cause problems to the wire.

I could see EV's becoming real popular real quick if they figure out a way that you can pull into a station, sit there without having to get out of your car, or touch anything, and then just drive off after 15 minutes.

 

[Ashful]

Im kinda curious how I will end up charing my EV if I get one.

I suspect you'd do well to put the charger itself inside, and wire it to a plug or cord set on the outside. Not that dissimilar to exterior outlets you already have now, just a different plug type. Solutions like this will likely become more popular with time, as so few people keep their cars in garages.

I think the primary gripe here will be our chitty north-Atlantic weather, constant freezing rain and ice storms all winter, which will make handling a cord and plug outdoors very un-fun. How many snowblowers will eat these cords, because people carelessly leave them on the ground, or forget they're even there?

Like all things, I guess they'll adapt.

I could see EV's becoming real popular real quick if they figure out a way that you can pull into a station, sit there without having to get out of your car, or touch anything, and then just drive off after 15 minutes.

I've said this so many times now, that it's not that funny anymore. But someday we're all going to have a lot of trouble explaining to our grandkids, that we thought it was more convenient to drive across town to a filling station a few times per month, than to just plug the damn car into the wall when we got home at night.

 

[old greybeard]

According to reports Ive seen recently it takes 60-70k miles just for the emissions created making the battery packs to save over the emissions of a average car. Longer if compared to a compact car.
That’s not even factoring in the social cost of slavery and child workers in the mines.
But good for Norway. A tiny, rich country that can be driven easily with a limited range ev. Also Im sure they are subsidizing charging and stations with their wealth.
Also they have excellent trains for distance transportation.
Batteries are inefficient, costly, dirty, expensive. Need a better solution.

 

[EbS-P]

There are various dry foams and chemicals used to put out electrical transformer fires, where water is a no-go. I suspect the handling of BEV fires will migrate this way, either sharing the same products with electric utility equipment fires, or even seeing new and better products developed to target them. Cost, space on the trucks, other factors will dictate specialized versus shared solutions.

The batteries contain oxidizer and reducer. ie fuel and oxygen. The water just keeps the temps cooler it doesn’t extinguish the fire. Foam won’t help much. Lots of water to keep temps down and any adjacent items (cars buildings asphalt) from reaching ignition temperature.

 

[bholler]

According to reports Ive seen recently it takes 60-70k miles just for the emissions created making the battery packs to save over the emissions of a average car. Longer if compared to a compact car.
That’s not even factoring in the social cost of slavery and child workers in the mines.
But good for Norway. A tiny, rich country that can be driven easily with a limited range ev. Also Im sure they are subsidizing charging and stations with their wealth.
Also they have excellent trains for distance transportation.
Batteries are inefficient, costly, dirty, expensive. Need a better solution.

If you are only looking at tailpipe emissions that may be true I don't know. But if you look at the whole process of getting oil out of the ground to refineries turning it into gasoline then getting that to the pumps that absolutely isn't accurate.

Again the reports of child labor being used are greatly exaggerated by those lobbying against EVs. Yes some of it happens but the same can be said for various components in ice vehicles and many other products we use every day. Not saying it's ok just that it is nothing unique to EVs.

Yes I am sure Norway is subsidizing a charging network. As are we. But we also subsidize oil companies and lots of other parts in the process of making ice vehicles possible

Batteries are absolutely not inefficient. They are infact far more efficient than internal combustion vehicles. Yes they are costly but that is changing quickly. And yes there are parts of battery production that are dirty at this point. Just as there are parts of gasoline production that are dirty.

 

[woodgeek]

Im kinda curious how I will end up charing my EV if I get one. I have a two car wide driveway but a garage that isnt big enough to fit two cars, unless you go with small cars and dont own a ton of stuff/shelves. So Id likely park it in the driveway and have to run a cable to it and then bring it back up afterwards when done. So Im kinda curious if Im going to put the charger outside and what that would look like, or inside and run the cable under the garage door. Eventually the pressure from the garage door slamming on it will cause problems to the wire.

Most EVSEs are weatherproof, and you can get a hook for spooling the cable on. Mount it on the outside. If you prefer to have the EVSE indoors, you can get a rubber 'threshold' that goes under the garage door, whose thickness matches the cable thickness, and lay the cable in a gap in the threshold.

I have seen both solutions.

 

[EbS-P]

Im kinda curious how I will end up charing my EV if I get one. I have a two car wide driveway but a garage that isnt big enough to fit two cars, unless you go with small cars and dont own a ton of stuff/shelves. So Id likely park it in the driveway and have to run a cable to it and then bring it back up afterwards when done. So Im kinda curious if Im going to put the charger outside and what that would look like, or inside and run the cable under the garage door. Eventually the pressure from the garage door slamming on it will cause problems to the wire.

I could see EV's becoming real popular real quick if they figure out a way that you can pull into a station, sit there without having to get out of your car, or touch anything, and then just drive off after 15 minutes.

Chargers have 24’ cable. If an exterior wall isn’t close enough, run pcv conduit big enough for two 50A circuits. Set post and attach it the units the the post add some curbing to keep it safe. No need for the 50 amp oversized conduit now but in the future it will make pulling wire for upgrades a breeze.

 

[SpaceBus]

If you are only looking at tailpipe emissions that may be true I don't know. But if you look at the whole process of getting oil out of the ground to refineries turning it into gasoline then getting that to the pumps that absolutely isn't accurate.

Again the reports of child labor being used are greatly exaggerated by those lobbying against EVs. Yes some of it happens but the same can be said for various components in ice vehicles and many other products we use every day. Not saying it's ok just that it is nothing unique to EVs.

Yes I am sure Norway is subsidizing a charging network. As are we. But we also subsidize oil companies and lots of other parts in the process of making ice vehicles possible

Batteries are absolutely not inefficient. They are infact far more efficient than internal combustion vehicles. Yes they are costly but that is changing quickly. And yes there are parts of battery production that are dirty at this point. Just as there are parts of gasoline production that are dirty.

You said it better than I could have, thank you. I'd also like to add that there are very few economy/entry level priced BEVs in the US market, for now. This is the same as ICE vehicles were in their own infancy.