Norway on track to reach 100% EV sales in the next 2 years

[TWilk117]

So it's fine that the oil companies and shareholders make huge profits but not ok for others to? Why is that?

I’ve done well with the stock market. I hate big pharmaceutical but I wish I had some stock in that.

 

[bholler]

I’ve done well with the stock market. I hate big pharmaceutical but I wish I had some stock in that.

Ok. So why shouldn't share holders investing in the ev industry be able to make profits?

 

[SpaceBus]

But what about the potential hazards of ev battery mining? Discarding batteries? Ev fires? I get your point. I think objectively as do my “sources.”
I take it all with grain of salt. I don’t pledge allegiance to any politician. They’re all the same. It’s a one party system now basically. I’m an independent.

EV fires, what about all of the ICE vehicle fires? How about countless homes and businesses having huge tanks of volatile toxic liquids above and below ground? Why is it better for the environment to frack and mine for fossil fuels, but EVs are a problem? What about all the ecosystems and habitat loss due to countless oil spills and leaks over the years? You are selectively ignoring all of the data that you don't like, not looking at all sources. The environmental damage from lithium is no better or worse than mining for any other mineral resource, fossil fuels, etc. I've seen some posts amounting to "follow the money". You can do that for industries that rely on fossil fuels for profit, not just alternative energy sectors. Until we all adopt socialism, nothing will ever happen on this planet without someone making a profit, so of course there will be money being made in renewables. Do we expect anything less in a globalist capitalist world?
The battery component recycling rhetoric has to stop, do people really expect there to be no innovation into this sector? Pretty soon the big OEMs will start taking in batteries for cores because the materials are so finite. It just doesn't make financial sense to put so much money into designing batteries around a finite resource without also factoring in how to make the most out of that one resource. The total lack of imagination by the EV naysayers is staggering. EVs will have the same rise in innovation that ICE vehicles have seen for the last 100+ years. It's not like we are still driving model Ts today, and pretty soon the Tesla model S will look like a model T to us.

 

[TWilk117]

I have repeatedly said there are issues with rare earth mining. We will see if Sweden can actually do it better as they claim. But regardless lithium isn't going to be the ultimate solution.

And honestly the claims of children being used are greatly exaggerated. Yes it does happen but not to the extent some outlets claim

You know that as a fact because you know or because that’s what your resources tell you?

 

[TWilk117]

Ok. So why shouldn't share holders investing in the ev industry be able to make profits?

Didn’t say they shouldn’t. I m saying in my opinion it’s a scam like just about everything else.

 

[TWilk117]

EV fires, what about all of the ICE vehicle fires? How about countless homes and businesses having huge tanks of volatile toxic liquids above and below ground? Why is it better for the environment to frack and mine for fossil fuels, but EVs are a problem? What about all the ecosystems and habitat loss due to countless oil spills and leaks over the years? You are selectively ignoring all of the data that you don't like, not looking at all sources. The environmental damage from lithium is no better or worse than mining for any other mineral resource, fossil fuels, etc. I've seen some posts amounting to "follow the money". You can do that for industries that rely on fossil fuels for profit, not just alternative energy sectors. Until we all adopt socialism, nothing will ever happen on this planet without someone making a profit, so of course there will be money being made in renewables. Do we expect anything less in a globalist capitalist world?
The battery component recycling rhetoric has to stop, do people really expect there to be no innovation into this sector? Pretty soon the big OEMs will start taking in batteries for cores because the materials are so finite. It just doesn't make financial sense to put so much money into designing batteries around a finite resource without also factoring in how to make the most out of that one resource. The total lack of imagination by the EV naysayers is staggering. EVs will have the same rise in innovation that ICE vehicles have seen for the last 100+ years. It's not like we are still driving model Ts today, and pretty soon the Tesla model S will look like a model T to us.

Ev fires take a whole lot more water to put out. Places like California don’t have a whole lot of water certain times of year.

 

[SpaceBus]

As far as water and EV fires, what about the 212,500 vehicle fires in 2018? If anything EVs catch on fire LESS often than ICE vehicles filled with volatile toxic fuels.

 

[bholler]

You know that as a fact because you know or because that’s what your resources tell you?

That's what human rights watch says along with several other organizations that track child labor etc.

 

[bholler]

Didn’t say they shouldn’t. I m saying in my opinion it’s a scam like just about everything else.

What's a scam? Electric vehicles? How so

 

[TWilk117]

That's what human rights watch says along with several other organizations that track child labor etc.

Tell that to Falun Gong and Uyghur and African children!
Government and BMGF funded organizations say a lot of things…..

 

[TWilk117]

What's a scam? Electric vehicles? How so

Literally just about everything.

 

[woodgeek]

Didn’t say they shouldn’t. I m saying in my opinion it’s a scam like just about everything else.

Wait, can you explain to me how EVs are a 'scam'? Like, the companies are taking money from people for products that don't exist? Or is it that the products don't perform as advertised? Or that they exist, perform as advertised, but are somehow worse for the planet than the cars they replace?

I'm guessing its the third one... But the legacy car makers are not making money on EVs, and it is costing them many billions of dollars to build EV factories, and it is not clear that their EV products will be competitive, and they could lose their investment. Don't the legacy car makers have a huge incentive to blow the whistle on the 'EV scam' and not risk billions of dollars? Why aren't they?

Please explain.

 

[TWilk117]

Wait, can you explain to me how EVs are a 'scam'? Like, the companies are taking money from people for products that don't exist? Or is it that the products don't perform as advertised? Or that they exist, perform as advertised, but are somehow worse for the planet than the cars they replace?

I'm guessing its the third one... But the legacy car makers are not making money on EVs, and it is costing them many billions of dollars to build EV factories, and it is not clear that their EV products will be competitive, and they could lose their investment. Don't the legacy car makers have a huge incentive to blow the whistle on the 'EV scam' and not risk billions of dollars? Why aren't they?

Please explain.

You answered your question to an extent.
They have to build new factories and facilities. That’s bad for the environment and uses an enormous amount of of fossil fuel to do so.
You can’t go as far as they say on a full charge. They don’t last that long when it’s cold out. God forbid you get in a wreck. The batteries don’t last forever like my grandmother’s Cutlass Supreme.
Don’t get stuck in the water.

 

[bholler]

Tell that to Falun Gong and Uyghur and African children!
Government and BMGF funded organizations say a lot of things…..

Uhhh Australia Bolivia chile and Argentina mine over 90% of the minerals used in lithium batteries. Now allot of the refining is done in China currently. But Sweden is apparently going to be entering that market now so hopefully that changes

 

[woodgeek]

You answered your question to an extent.
They have to build new factories and facilities. That’s bad for the environment and uses an enormous amount of of fossil fuel to do so.
You can’t go as far as they say on a full charge. They don’t last that long when it’s cold out. God forbid you get in a wreck. The batteries don’t last forever like my grandmother’s Cutlass Supreme.
Don’t get stuck in the water.

Huh. What is wrong with their existing car factories? That they are still using.

—My four EVs have gone the rated distance on a full charge.
—My range drops about 20% in below freezing weather, which I learned about before I bought the EVs.
—I totaled one EV, a 2017 Bolt (yup, the ones with the recalled battery). There was no fire or smoke.
—My oldest EV is my 2015 Volt, 7.5 years and counting. No problems whatsoever, still have good range.
—My first EV (a 2013 LEAF) had a great wading distance (deeper than most ICE cars). I drove it through water up tot he axles a couple times. No problem whatsoever.

Who is scamming who?

 

[TWilk117]

Uhhh Australia Bolivia chile and Argentina mine over 90% of the minerals used in lithium batteries. Now allot of the refining is done in China currently. But Sweden is apparently going to be entering that market now so hopefully that changes

Correct China mostly mines organs.

 

[bholler]

You answered your question to an extent.
They have to build new factories and facilities. That’s bad for the environment and uses an enormous amount of of fossil fuel to do so.
You can’t go as far as they say on a full charge. They don’t last that long when it’s cold out. God forbid you get in a wreck. The batteries don’t last forever like my grandmother’s Cutlass Supreme.
Don’t get stuck in the water.

Most of those same things can be said of ice vehicles.
Car companies build new factories for ice vehicles all the time.
Many ice vehicles don't get anywhere near the stated mpg.
The cold thing I will give you that is an issue they are working on.
How are EVs worse in a crash than ice vehicles?
No batteries don't last forever. But they do last about the same ammout of time as most ice drive lines.
They also are no worse in water than ice vehicles

 

[bholler]

Correct China mostly mines organs.

Ok can you make an attempt to stay on topic please

 

[TWilk117]

Most of those same things can be said of ice vehicles.
Car companies build new factories for ice vehicles all the time.
Many ice vehicles don't get anywhere near the stated mpg.
The cold thing I will give you that is an issue they are working on.
How are EVs worse in a crash than ice vehicles?
No batteries don't last forever. But they do last about the same ammout of time as most ice drive lines.
They also are no worse in water than ice vehicles

Worse in a crash because of the violent fire aspect and possibly being locked inside because the doors and locks are electric.

 

[TWilk117]

Ok can you make an attempt to stay on topic please

Sorry. It’s all entwined together in my honest opinion.
I’ll try to be gooder.

 

[bholler]

Worse in a crash because of the violent fire aspect and possibly being locked inside because the doors and locks are electric.

Yes some are electric with manual over rides like many high end ice vehicles. Some are just mechanical

And again fires are no more common in EVs than in ice vehicles

 

[bholler]

Worse in a crash because of the violent fire aspect and possibly being locked inside because the doors and locks are electric.

Have you ever driven or ridden in an ev?

 

[TWilk117]

Yes some are electric with manual over rides like many high end ice vehicles. Some are just mechanical

And again fires are no more common in EVs than in ice vehicles

I naturally disagree wit your last statement. Just a gut feeling because I’ve seen so many electric bike and vehicle fires on my feed.

 

[TWilk117]

Have you ever driven or ridden in an ev?

Yes

 

[bholler]

I naturally disagree wit your last statement. Just a gut feeling because I’ve seen so many electric bike and vehicle fires on my feed.

Ok but the actual data says my statement is true.