new Vapor Fire 100 with very poor heat

[gary38532]

So install on Friday? If you get all sooty doing it...kinda gives new meaning to "Black Friday", eh?!

haha we might do it sooner depends on the weather

 

[gary38532]

yeah, it works good. Being in heated space and insulated pretty much the whole run allowed me to supply an outside make up air duct to my BD to send cold outside air up the chimney instead of heated basement air in order to regulate the draft. Been using it this way for about 1.5 heating seasons now.

If your new liner works, I'm not sure spending even more money on a completely separate and new chimney would be worth it. Obviously your call though. It would be better, but at what point does the law of diminishing returns come into play in regards to $$$$$ spent.

either way that chimney is bad ass

 

[brenndatomu]

either way that chimney is bad ass

I think that on a cold windy night it would suck up small animals that ventured too close to the VF intake!

 

[Gbawol42]

Being in heated space and insulated pretty much the whole run allowed me to supply an outside make up air duct to my BD to send cold outside air up the chimney instead of heated basement air in order to regulate the draft.

You know I never thought about the BD sucking the nice heated air from the basement. I know your a numbers man, how much does you flue drop in temp doing it the way you are?

 

[JRHAWK9]

You know I never thought about the BD sucking the nice heated air from the basement. I know your a numbers man, how much does you flue drop in temp doing it the way you are?

The unscientific answer is not enough to cause an issue for me. I don't keep track of the temp after the BD, only the temp coming right off the furnace collar and the temp of the air entering the BD from outside. When we had that one -37° morning last January I saw below 0° air entering the BD tee. I actually had some frost buildup on the exterior of the metal duct not too far before the BD tee.

 

[brenndatomu]

I personally don't think using outside air for the BD would work on anything that burns dirtier than a Kuuma...creosote city!

 

[gary38532]

The chimney guys are braking the clay out now. Going with a inch of insulation plus double wall stove pipe in the house. Ill post new pictures when it's finished!

 

[Case1030]

The chimney guys are braking the clay out now. Going with a inch of insulation plus double wall stove pipe in the house. Ill post new pictures when it's finished!

All in all I would have 3900 into the chimney plus whatever the double wall stove pipe is going to cost which I know is not cheap.

Hopefully all said and done you didn't end up dishing out $3900!!

 

[gary38532]

The draft is about .05 now. The damper moves around now too. It still doesn't heat very well though 67 inside on med 32 outside. Maybe I should add the baffles back in the heat exchanger and readjust the draft? Seems like it wants to bouce back in forth from c and 1 Is that normal?

 

[JRHAWK9]

The draft is about .05 now. The damper moves around now too. It still doesn't heat very well though 67 inside on med 32 outside. Maybe I should add the baffles back in the heat exchanger and readjust the draft.

You need to make sure the BD is level, both horizontally and vertically. May have to put an extension on the tee with an adjustable elbow to accomplish this. Or cut a piece of stovepipe at an angle.

Once you get the draft where it should be, then you should probably pick up a few cheap HVAC temp probes and put them in your supply plenum and return air plenum.

 

[maple1]

The draft is about .05 now. The damper moves around now too. It still doesn't heat very well though 67 inside on med 32 outside. Maybe I should add the baffles back in the heat exchanger and readjust the draft? Seems like it wants to bouce back in forth from c and 1 Is that normal?

I think I would be putting the baffles in then getting draft in spec if you can, yes. Manual says they are there for hx efficiency but can be taken out to try to alleviate poor draft side effects. I would also try to get draft to upper end of specs (0.06) if possible, to start with. Make sure you have the gauge hooked up right, doesn't look like its hooked up in that pic above?

 

[gary38532]

I think I would be putting the baffles in then getting draft in spec if you can, yes. Manual says they are there for hx efficiency but can be taken out to try to alleviate poor draft side effects. I would also try to get draft to upper end of specs (0.06) if possible, to start with. Make sure you have the gauge hooked up right, doesn't look like its hooked up in that pic above?

it was hooked up. I took it off because I didnt want the rubber hose to melt. I measured it just below the BD.

 

[gary38532]

You need to make sure the BD is level, both horizontally and vertically. May have to put an extension on the tee with an adjustable elbow to accomplish this. Or cut a piece of stovepipe at an angle.

Once you get the draft where it should be, then you should probably pick up a few cheap HVAC temp probes and put them in your supply plenum and return air plenum.

I'll level it not today though. I just need a break from this stove.

 

[Mrpelletburner]

Buy some copper tubing and make a connection to the rubber hose ~ 1’ away.

 

[gary38532]

Buy some copper tubing and make a connection to the rubber hose ~ 1’ away.

View attachment 252439

View attachment 252441

ok

 

[brenndatomu]

I'll level it not today though. I just need a break from this stove.

It does need to be plumb and level...but if you have -0.05" WC, then good enough for today.
Putting the baffles back in now that you have proper draft will help with heat exchange efficiency for sure.
I run my Dwyer off the right port...scale is much larger, and easier to read that way...make sure to pop the hose off and check zero once in a while too.
Congrats on getting to square one finally...not saying there arent a few minor tweaks to be done yet...should be nothing major, I think the painful stuff is done...it gets nothing but better from here!

 

[woodey]

Seems like it wants to bouce back in forth from c and 1 Is that normal?

Yes that is what you want to see, as you get further into the burn cycle it will go from 2-1, 2-1-C, 3-2 ect. If it is going from 1 to closed then the thermo couple is reading a high enough internal temp in the firebox that you should feel more heat in your house. Are all hot air ducts unobstructed, are your air filters allowing enough air flow thru them. May be worth trying to remove the lid to the filters or remove 1 filter to introduce more air into the system. Have you removed the hood on the front of the furnace with the blower running as you should feel a lot of air blowing out there.

 

[brenndatomu]

Yes that is what you want to see, as you get further into the burn cycle it will go from 2-1, 2-1-C, 3-2 ect. If it is going from 1 to closed then the thermo couple is reading a high enough internal temp in the firebox that you should feel more heat in your house. Are all hot air ducts unobstructed, are your air filters allowing enough air flow thru them. May be worth trying to remove the lid to the filters or remove 1 filter to introduce more air into the system. Have you removed the hood on the front of the furnace with the blower running as you should feel feel a lot of air blowing out there.

I've never seen it go to 3 after being on c?
For me a cold start goes C, 3, 2, 3, 2, 1, 2, 1, c, 1, c, 1...and the real warm plenum temps come from the latter part of that sequence. @JRHAWK9 says that he gets higher plenum temps later on in the burn when it starts to go back to 3 long term for the "coals burn down" part of the process.
Loading on a nice pile of hot coals results in something more like 3, 2, 1, c,1, c,1, c, 1....and usually stays on c for longer periods each time too...especially once it gets cold and I run larger loads of wood.
Easy enough to try removing a filter...but I think that will result in driving the duct temps down...which in my house, doesn't bring the house temp up.
I do better with less, but hotter air...but it seems every house is a little different.

 

[woodey]

I've never seen it go to 3 after being on c?

I could have been a little clearer on that as later in the cycle it may go from 3-2 then back to 3 till reload,as far as filter removal it may be worth trying once to see if changes anything and go from there.

 

[JRHAWK9]

Seems like it wants to bouce back in forth from c and 1 Is that normal?

yeah, it's normal for the computer to want to keep internal firebox temps at whatever output setting you have the computer set ar.

Lots of examples of mine doing the same thing -HERE- . When you see the stack temps rise and then fall repeatedly, that is the computer doing the c-1 thing to maintain the 1,080°F firebox temps when it's set to minimum burn.

@JRHAWK9 says that he gets higher plenum temps later on in the burn when it starts to go back to 3 long term for the "coals burn down" part of the process.

yeah, there's an example of that too at the link above. They are the highest when the damper stays open more in the 1-2 area....about 2/3 through the burn. This is with the computer on minimum burn too.

I too do better with lower volumes of warmer air. I'm starting to wonder if the OP's house will also benefit from the same.....?

Still would like to see some plenum/supply temps. Unless that house has an extremely high heat load, I think there is still more to figure out. At 32° doing back to back loadings like he's doing, he should be seeing higher inside temps....IMO.

 

[gary38532]

Im not sure whats going on with it at this point. Mine spends most of the burn on 1. I put the baffles back in and I have a draft of .05 with them in. Towards the end of my burn I get almost no heat because its full of coals and its not hot enough to keep the blower fan on. So Ive been putting little pieces of 2X4s in to try to burn them down but it doesnt do much. Im going through a 3 hour period of just waiting for the coals to go away. The blower is coming on and off during that 3 hours. Its spends most of its time off. Its seems like its running the same way with the draft as it was with out it. I put a thermometer in the register and my hottest air was 100. I dont have returns so Im not sure how to measure whats going in. I have all the the doors in the house open to make sure cold air is getting back. I haven't seen mine go to c at all tonight and its full to the top with cherry. Also when mine gets to 3 it stays on 3 never back to 2.

 

[brenndatomu]

So how long are your loads lasting, from loading to loading?

 

[gary38532]

So how long are your loads lasting, from loading to loading?

today I got 10 hours. The blower was off for about 2 during that. I loaded on lots of coals more then I wanted to but the back of the stove was empty

 

[gary38532]

I just went down stairs and its on c now first time I seen it and I loaded at 8 its 11 now

 

[brenndatomu]

Cherry is not the highest BTU wood...but a box full of it ought to heat your house this time of year.
The last time I had the firebox stuffed full was last January when the high temp for the day was around zero...an the computer on medium, loaded every 8 hours or so IIRC...a couple times the high temp alarm went off because I loaded on too many coals, and had a full firebox of real dry wood...went 3, 2, 1, c real quick, and stayed on c for a LONG time...2 hrs maybe? CRS n all....