Need Some Help. Neighbor (Environmental Atty) Filed Complaint

[Woody5506]

My wife thinks I'm nuts because I'm always looking at our chimney during burns, especially start ups. Just monitoring smoke, where it typically blows, and how long it lasts. Reading threads like this reinforce why I like to stay conscious of it. Again, all it takes is one jerk, and in my case I went rogue and installed with no permit...so I could do without any official complaints.

Luckily the prevailing wind is outta the west, and it's probably 150+ yards between my chimney and any houses to the east of me. More importantly, my chimney doesnt smoke besides start up.

 

[Bad LP]

My primary home is in MA. I'm very well versed in being a responsible collector.

A few obviously failed to see the humor in my post. I didn't realize some are so wound up tight.

 

[Ben Stark]

I live in the North East, Central NY to be more specific. I wanted to tell the OP what works for me as far as firewood.

I find I have much better results when I store my firewood inside my garage so that it isn’t exposed to the elements. I have a nice cross breeze in the garage all spring, summer and fall. The firewood is a pleasure to work with and I don’t have to worry about snow, ice or rain.

I use a local dealer, who runs a wood processor. He has a huge pile of cut and split wood year round. I ask for his most seasoned wood and he dumps a truck load of what, in my estimation is semi-seasoned wood, in my driveway. This would be in March or April, and I have a couple friends come over for a firewood party.

We sort, and split any over large chunks, remove loose bark, and stack the wood in the garage. I end up with kindling and smaller splits in a separate stack for starting fires. Then we clean all the debris and by the afternoon my next winter worth of firewood is all put up. About two full cords. The wood stays in the garage under cover until I need it mid November. I do rotate stacks so leftover wood from last year is used first. It’s a lot of work but I don’t mind.

The wood burns excellent, it’s clean and dry and I have no visible smoke once the fire is established. I also have many years experience with wood heat and I enjoy running the stove.

I have stored my firewood outside in the past. I would stack it off the ground, top covered, space the rows apart, etc. the result was always worse than keeping it inside the garage. We just get too much rain and snow and not enough dry weather for it to season properly. The garage wood is drier, lighter, deep cracks on the ends, lights faster and burns better.

I know this won’t work for everyone but it works well for me. My neighbors never complain, and they have all lived here longer than I have. In fact they compliment me, LOL! I have a large house and use a wood stove that heats half and a pellet stove for the other half.

The pellet stove produces no smoke other than a puff when it first starts, and I can only smell the odor of burning wood from it when I am literally right next to the vent pipe.

I like both my stoves. Osburn 1600 insert, and Breckwell Classic Cast pellet stove. I run them both 24/7 on days like today. It’s 6 degrees outside. -9 with windchill. The house is warm and comfortable.

To add perspective, my wife has mild Athsma and has since childhood. She never has problems with it at home, despite wood heat. I burn clean and maintain my stoves. She enjoys the constant radiant heat of the wood stove and helps run it too.

I don’t know if the info is any help to the OP, but I wanted to share a positive experience with wood heat. I hope he can work out his differences with his neighbor.

 

[SpaceBus]

My primary home is in MA. I'm very well versed in being a responsible collector.

A few obviously failed to see the humor in my post. I didn't realize some are so wound up tight.

Sorry, it went over my head.

 

[Bad LP]

Sorry, it went over my head.

No problem. Down to -1 well NW of you. LOL

 

[SpaceBus]

No problem. Down to -1 well NW of you. LOL

The wife is at home and I think the low is going to be 3f tonight, so not that much warmer. The hospital stays pretty consistent. I've been watching the ice shifting on the Bangor river all day.

 

[weatherguy]

I live in the North East, Central NY to be more specific. I wanted to tell the OP what works for me as far as firewood.

I find I have much better results when I store my firewood inside my garage so that it isn’t exposed to the elements. I have a nice cross breeze in the garage all spring, summer and fall. The firewood is a pleasure to work with and I don’t have to worry about snow, ice or rain.

I use a local dealer, who runs a wood processor. He has a huge pile of cut and split wood year round. I ask for his most seasoned wood and he dumps a truck load of what, in my estimation is semi-seasoned wood, in my driveway. This would be in March or April, and I have a couple friends come over for a firewood party.

We sort, and split any over large chunks, remove loose bark, and stack the wood in the garage. I end up with kindling and smaller splits in a separate stack for starting fires. Then we clean all the debris and by the afternoon my next winter worth of firewood is all put up. About two full cords. The wood stays in the garage under cover until I need it mid November. I do rotate stacks so leftover wood from last year is used first. It’s a lot of work but I don’t mind.

The wood burns excellent, it’s clean and dry and I have no visible smoke once the fire is established. I also have many years experience with wood heat and I enjoy running the stove.

I have stored my firewood outside in the past. I would stack it off the ground, top covered, space the rows apart, etc. the result was always worse than keeping it inside the garage. We just get too much rain and snow and not enough dry weather for it to season properly. The garage wood is drier, lighter, deep cracks on the ends, lights faster and burns better.

I know this won’t work for everyone but it works well for me. My neighbors never complain, and they have all lived here longer than I have. In fact they compliment me, LOL! I have a large house and use a wood stove that heats half and a pellet stove for the other half.

The pellet stove produces no smoke other than a puff when it first starts, and I can only smell the odor of burning wood from it when I am literally right next to the vent pipe.

I like both my stoves. Osburn 1600 insert, and Breckwell Classic Cast pellet stove. I run them both 24/7 on days like today. It’s 6 degrees outside. -9 with windchill. The house is warm and comfortable.

To add perspective, my wife has mild Athsma and has since childhood. She never has problems with it at home, despite wood heat. I burn clean and maintain my stoves. She enjoys the constant radiant heat of the wood stove and helps run it too.

I don’t know if the info is any help to the OP, but I wanted to share a positive experience with wood heat. I hope he can work out his differences with his neighbor.

I store a good amount in my garage and I get the same results as you, I'm going to put another half cord in tomorrow.

 

[Dug8498]

Sorry, it went over my head.

Same


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[wooduser]

Maybe you shouldn’t be afraid of these people and ask them if they need some help or is there anything they need. This is what we should be doing in society instead of complaining and calling the government to tattle about things we don’t agree with.
Have you ever spoken to the person taking up space on your sidewalk? To answer your question, in my opinion yes these are your neighbors that you should be concerned about.

So how many of these "neighbors" do you have living within three or four blocks of your home?


Seattle has city laws that require that vehicles parked on the street be moved every 72 hours. Not enforced.

Seattle has strict building codes ----not enforced against these vagrants.

Six months ago a pit bull that wasn't leashed attacked me and I was lucky to beast the beast off with a bag I was carrying. It's illegal to have dogs unleashed OR vicious dogs, but the people return and park in the same place repeatedly. Leash laws and laws against vicious animals ----not enforced.

A VERY common feature of vagrant campsites are bicycles ---often dozens of them and often having the identification painted over. WHERE do you suppose vagrants living out of an RV get all these bicycles?

Seattle has VERY expensive license tabs for vehicles ---not enforced against our vagrant population.

You think they have the liability insurance the law requires? You would be wrong.

What do you suppose they do with the garbage and human waste they produce?

 

[Todd67]

I've never tested the MC of my firewood. I know oak takes a long time to season and that's why I split them very small.

To be fair, he did talked to me in advanced but he only asked that I stop burning completely. When I said I would not but was open to other suggestion, I agreed not to burn during rain and snow because the smoke and odor seem to hover around the house. A few weeks later, he filed the complaint. From my point of view, he just doesn't want me to burn and no compromise was going to be reached.

I don't know much about the law whether this is a nuisance or code complaint. The stoves was installed by a professional and permit was pulled and approved.

Below is an excerpt from an email I received from the board of health:

Excerpting from the Town of Paxton Zoning Bylaws and MassDEP regulations respective to smoke follows:

“Section 5.8 Environmental Performance Standards



Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in this Bylaw, and use permitted by Right or by Special

Permit in any district shall not be conducted in a manner as to emit any dangerous, noxious, injurious, or

otherwise objectionable …, smoke, … odor or other form of environmental pollution conditions or element in an amount as to adversely affect the surrounding environment.

The following standards shall apply:

1. Emissions shall be completely and effectively confined within a building, or so regulated as

to prevent any nuisance, hazard, or other disturbance from being perceptible (without the use of

instruments) at any lot line of the premises on which the use is located.

4. No emission of visible dark or offensive smoke shall be permitted.

9. No emission of odorous gases or odoriferous matter in such quantities as to be offensive

shall be permitted.

Any process, which may involve the creation and/or emission of any odors, shall be provided with a

secondary safeguard system”.


In addition to the Town Of Paxton Zoning Bylaws is the MassDEP- Air Pollution Control Regulation, 310 CMR 7.00. defines wood stoves are considered a fuel utilization facility:


FUEL UTILIZATION FACILITY means any furnace(s), fuel burning equipment, boiler(s),

space heaters or any appurtenance thereto used for the burning of fuels, for the emission of

products of combustion, or in connection with any process which generates heat and emits

products of combustion, but does not mean a motor vehicle or an incinerator; except that for the

purposes of 310 CMR 7.22, means a single furnace, fuel burning equipment, boiler or space

heater for the purpose of generating electricity or thermal energy.



Smoke and odor from wood stoves are considered air contaminates:



AIR CONTAMINANT means any substance or man-made physical phenomenon in the ambient

air space and includes, but is not limited to, dust, flyash, gas, fume, mist,odor, smoke, vapor,

pollen, microorganism, radioactive material, radiation, heat, sound, any combination thereof, or

any decay or reaction product thereof.



Air contaminates can cause or contribute to a condition of air pollution:



AIR POLLUTION means the presence in the ambient air space of one or more air contaminants

or combinations thereof in such concentrations and of such duration as to:

(a) cause a nuisance;

(b) be injurious, or be on the basis of current information, potentially injurious to human

or animal life, to vegetation, or to property; or

(c) unreasonably interfere with the comfortable enjoyment of life and property or the

conduct of business.



310 CMR 7.09 is the regulation which addresses smoke and odor from fuel utilization facilities:



310 CMR 7.09: U Dust, Odor, Construction, and Demolition

(1) No person having control of any dust or odor generating operations such as, but not limited

to asphalt batching plants, asphalt roofing materials manufacturing plants, asphalt blowing

plants, foundries, chemical products manufacturing plants, incinerators,fuel utilization facilities,

petroleum products manufacturing plants, aggregate manufacturing plants, food preparation or

processing facilities, wood products plants, dry cleaning establishments, paint and varnish

manufacturing plants, paper manufacturing plants, leather manufacturing plants, concrete

batching plants, metal coating and treating plants, land clearing operations, construction work,

dump operations, agricultural operations and street sweeping shall permit emissions therefrom

which cause or contribute to a condition of air pollution.

Regardless of what laws are broken in OUR neighborhoods, let's try to remember why @rook_ki started this thread. There has been some great discussion but...

I'm sure rook_ki isn't the only person in his community who heats with wood. If I was in his shoes my main concern would be THEIR legal definition of Air contaminants & air pollution. It seems like the laws allow someone to complain about smoke, with no requirement to "prove" air pollution, and his neighbor is exploiting the wording of that law.

 

[Boxer]

So how many of these "neighbors" do you have living within three or four blocks of your home?


Seattle has city laws that require that vehicles parked on the street be moved every 72 hours. Not enforced.

Seattle has strict building codes ----not enforced against these vagrants.

Six months ago a pit bull that wasn't leashed attacked me and I was lucky to beast the beast off with a bag I was carrying. It's illegal to have dogs unleashed OR vicious dogs, but the people return and park in the same place repeatedly. Leash laws and laws against vicious animals ----not enforced.

A VERY common feature of vagrant campsites are bicycles ---often dozens of them and often having the identification painted over. WHERE do you suppose vagrants living out of an RV get all these bicycles?

Seattle has VERY expensive license tabs for vehicles ---not enforced against our vagrant population.

You think they have the liability insurance the law requires? You would be wrong.

What do you suppose they do with the garbage and human waste they produce?

Ok, last post I’m making here because this isn’t helping the OPs situation. You are correct I don’t live in a big fancy city like Seattle. We do have a huge homeless and poverty problem in our area right now. A lot of it is due to a drug addiction problem in my area. Some of the other people have mental issues and want to live that way while others are just having a rough spot in life and have no other option. You would be surprised how many of these people are veterans that have served so you can have your freedoms.

2 miles up the road from my house is an old farmer that has a homeless camp of sorts set up. He lets the people help out around his place in return for parking.... you guessed it a couple old RVs and some trashy cars that they sleep in.
The one old guy fixes up bicycles and try’s to sell them. He doesn’t steal them they are old things people give him. He’s proud and doesn’t want a hand out. Do I like driving by it and seeing it?? Not particularly but it’s not my business to tell the owner of the property how to live. We take wood up there so they can have fires and another guy brings them propane cylinders for the heater in the camper. Hopefully those people can get their problems figured out and move on with their lives.

5 miles into town the other direction is an older home a 85 year old man bought an turned into a homeless shelter because he saw a need. Since then a church has pitched in and helped with donations and volunteers. There is also a food pantry created by the same guy. It feeds over 4,000 families a year. Keep in mind my town has a population of less than 20,000 so that’s a pretty big deal. I feel like I’m pretty lucky to have the time and means to help out when I can. Never say never as life can throw you a curve ball in the blink of an eye and you could be the one needing some help.

Lastly, around here if a dog attacks somebody more likely than not it’s going to be a dead dog right there. We take our right to self defense pretty seriously around here and prefer to take care of ourselves. 1 in 20 people in my state carries a legal firearm. Maybe that’s why we have a low crime rate and respect each other for the most part. We let the police handle the real problems and try to take care of personal problems like adults by talking to each other and coming up with solutions. However, If fighting off attacking dogs with a purse and calling the police for every minor annoyance works for you.... more power to you.

 

[paulnlee]

Hey, it's Seattle, nuf said.

 

[wooduser]

2 miles up the road from my house

2 miles or five miles from my house there are probably 500 people living in old rvs , camps on sidewalks and vacant properties ---maybe more. Add in to that all the human waste and garbage they generate, and all the nuisances they create.

Not only that, but people are operating regular businesses being junk dealers using streets and sidewalks for warehouses, often not even living on the property they are occupying. One guy I noticed who had been dealing junk for several years had a for life to move his junk around.

Other create fortifications of old junk cars surrounding public property they claim ----perhaps a dozen junk cars creating a palisade in which they live.

 

[Jay106n]

MA... not surprised. But pretty much tell him to go pound sand.

Red oak does take 3 years to season properly so you may be producing more smoke than you should be.

 

[Bad LP]

What on earth is going on in Washington and Ohio to allow this kind of crap?

 

[Rob711]

So OP....?

 

[PaulOinMA]

5 miles into town the other direction is an older home a 85 year old man bought an turned into a homeless shelter because he saw a need. Since then a church has pitched in and helped with donations and volunteers.

Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?

My wife is reading book about about Charles Dickens' writings. A member of the House of Lords actually said after A Christmas Carol was written that working poor children to death is part of the natural order to remove them from the population

This place opened in town after a homeless person in the town north of us froze to death one winter. A state representative wanted to see that never happen again.

http://www.smoc.org/marlboro-shelter.php

 

[Boxer]

Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?

We have plenty of prisons. They also have some litter pickup programs for low risk county inmates. I don’t think the state does any work details, I could be wrong??

I’m talking about homeless people that don’t have money or means to get shelter. The state doesn’t want them because they can’t get money out of a person that is broke. They would rather arrest people that can pay court costs and fines. Mental health is a major problem not just in Ohio but in the whole country. You take someone to a hospital they ask them two questions. Are you going to hurt yourself? Are you going to hurt anyone else? They say no and the hospital is done with them and sends them back on their merry way. I don’t know what the answer is to that problem it’s above my pay grade. Those people just are not capable of taking care of themselves and need help to function on a daily basis. Jail or a work farm is not going to help them.

The place you linked to looks very much like the shelter in our town. It’s for families that need temporary help. You have to be clean and sober to get in. It’s not a druggy flop house. They help get them jobs and places to live. These people are just having hard times and need a little temporary help. The drug heads I have less sympathy for but they are a problem and just ignoring them doesn’t make it go away. The reality of the junkies is that they usually kill them selves in pretty short order. That sounds harsh but I believe it’s a choice to use that garbage to begin with. It’s not a secret what happens to you when you use.

The big problem we have right now is sky high housing. We have a oil drilling boom happening right now. The people are making good money and a lot are from other states. They need housing and the landlords are happy to rent them a house for ten times what it’s worth. The Mexicans will pack ten people in a house and pay the landlord per person. They are getting thousands every month for one house. That doesn’t leave much for a three person family working a factory job to choose from. Not everyone has the credit, co signer etc. to buy a house and renting is the only option.

I know there are scammers and panhandling crews around. You see them at almost every exit ramp between here and Cleveland that has a town. I used to be one of the guys that said throw them all in jail but that doesn’t help them or me. Someone has to pay to keep them in jail. I’m sure my area and the guy from Seattle’s area are two different thing. Most of the people here just need some temporary help and want to get off the streets. Looking at this post you would think I live in a war zone, it’s not, I actually in the middle of Amish country if you can believe that. There are definitely two sides of the tracks here and we keep our problems hidden away. I think a lot of little towns are like that.

How about the OP? Can you keep burning your stoves or not? I want to know how the meeting went.

 

[PaulOinMA]

… . Mental health is a major problem not just in Ohio but in the whole country. You take someone to a hospital they ask them two questions. Are you going to hurt yourself? Are you going to hurt anyone else? They say no and the hospital is done with them and sends them back on their merry way.

Watch Jerri Clark founder of "Mothers of the Mentally Ill." Was on PBS Newshour a couple of days ago.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/brief/

I also would like an update from my MA neighbor.

 

[bholler]

2 miles or five miles from my house there are probably 500 people living in old rvs , camps on sidewalks and vacant properties ---maybe more. Add in to that all the human waste and garbage they generate, and all the nuisances they create.

Not only that, but people are operating regular businesses being junk dealers using streets and sidewalks for warehouses, often not even living on the property they are occupying. One guy I noticed who had been dealing junk for several years had a for life to move his junk around.

Other create fortifications of old junk cars surrounding public property they claim ----perhaps a dozen junk cars creating a palisade in which they live.

So it's not ok for them to ignore the laws. But it's fine for you to ignore the laws and burn trash wood in a trash stove? Why are you special? You realize there may be neighbors bitching about your stove right

 

[St. Coemgen]

Thank you for not getting too intellectual with your response so I could follow along.
First off you have no idea what the OPs financial situation is. The fact that you are assuming he is wealthy enough to heat without burning wood tells a lot about your thinking.

The fact that you refer to your neighbors as “rather stupid” and “local old farts” also gives us a glimpse into your entitled thinking.

You don’t live on an asteroid alone either so how about trying to be a little bit more tolerant of your neighbors instead of trying to change them to suit what you think is right? I’m sure your neighbors would appreciate it.

LOL

Been a while since I have been here, but found this comment amusing.

As an addendum, I am an expat. The "local old farts" are the natives. I am the "foreign old fart". Just to make the distinction. And if you think burning fresh cut, green, unseasoned wood delivered in the fall is not stupid ... well that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. But I stand by what I said, and consider that rather stupid. But, hey, that is just me.

And actually, my neighbors have been far more intolerant of me then I am of them. Why? Because I am the "foreigner". A USA citizen, but a here the "foreigner".

But of course, you did not know that. And you did not know a lot more. And are simply making huge assumptions about me, based on just one comment I made, rather than waiting to really understand me, in my total complexity, as a complex human.

And you even ignored when I said you were right about some things, such as related to poverty, and when you even made correct statements.... sighs.... No good goes unpunished it seems.....

Sadly, your reply, as it appears to me -- without knowing you further of course -- is an example of an all to common response type from a really and fundamentally over defensive and intolerant (pre-judgemental) person who could not even graciously accept when complemented.

But I hold no grudge. And I hope you have a nice day.

 

[St. Coemgen]

My wife thinks I'm nuts because I'm always looking at our chimney during burns, especially start ups. Just monitoring smoke, where it typically blows, and how long it lasts.

I just grab a cup of coffee and say I am getting some fresh morning air. Go outside, sipping the coffee. Check the chimney. Go back in. Prevents marital comments about wood burning geekishness or insanity..... just saying.

Side note: I don't think I am fooling my wife. I think she knows exactly what I am doing. But it provides a great cover story for both of us.

 

[shoot-straight]

Burn bio bricks that will help.

 

[PaulOinMA]

I was wondering why you used such an American colloquialism as "old fart."

Made me think of a friend from Germany that was a former colleague of my wife's. Her English is better than mine, including the use of typical American colloquialisms.

 

[Poindexter]

The fundamental problem I see is there is no way for the OP to burn clean enough to be legal. He can't get down to 20% opacity or 6 ppm CO or any other parameter and be exempted from neighbor's (subjective) complaints.