Initial Draft Readings for Pacific Energy Summit LE Insert - Cause for Concern?

[davidmsem]

Sort of, but remember, you are measuring flue temp right at the flue outlet so it's bound to be on the high side. How does the temperature on the face of the insert above the door look?

500ish.....

 

[begreen]

OK, that is far from overfire, but yes, indicative of a strong draft. With a 750º flue exit temp I'd like to see that face temp at 650º. Is the chimney top remaining smoke free?

 

[EbS-P]

Thanks @begreen .

With a draft of 16, I don't think the EBT flap closes. I think it remains opened. I would love to have the spec number on when the EBT flap closes.

With the EBT door closed, and a very small fire, damper closed, primary air 100% choked, exhaust temperatures reach 700°. So I'm not so sure about opening up the EBT and letting it draft more, especially with a full load.

I do have some secondaries going, occasional fire out of some of the holes. I think the worst I'm doing is polluting a little bit, but I'd rather have a controlled safe burn temperature wise.

Once again the draft with the EBT door blocked is 0.1, the manufacturer spec. There are two holes in the EBT chamber that I did not block.

I’m not convinced the measurements that close to the damper reflect true flue gas Temps that’s others quote 18” above the pipe. We need more DATA!

 

[davidmsem]

OK, that is far from overfire, but yes, indicative of a strong draft. With a 750º flue exit temp I'd like to see that face temp at 650º. Is the chimney top remaining smoke free?

Hottest spot was 550. Hard for me to discern smoke stream, but there may be a bit of smoke .. I'm unsure. Can take pics.

 

[davidmsem]

I’m not convinced the measurements that close to the damper reflect true flue gas Temps that’s others quote 18” above the pipe. We need more DATA!

I'm not sure how much the flue temperature would decrease over 10" (to reach 18") with a blanketed flue. 20 degrees? Maybe at most....

I will do some data gathering over an entire fire.


David

 

[EbS-P]

I'm not sure how much the flue temperature would decrease over 10" (to reach 18") with a blanketed flue. 20 degrees? Maybe at most....

I will do some data gathering over an entire fire.


David

One of us should really stick a probe down from the cap taking temps every two feet or so. I’m not volunteering yet. But I do have the wireless AT200 unit. Think the probe wire is ok to those temps or will we melt the insulation? I’m guessing melted insulation.

 

[davidmsem]

One of us should really stick a probe down from the cap taking temps every two feet or so. I’m not volunteering yet. But I do have the wireless AT200 unit. Think the probe wire is ok to those temps or will we melt the insulation? I’m guessing melted insulation.

I'd bet melt insulation for sure.....

 

[begreen]

If you are really nice, I might end up drilling a hole in the pipe right above the flue collar to see the difference, but we are not burning yet.

 

[davidmsem]

If you are really nice, I might end up drilling a hole in the pipe right above the flue collar to see the difference, but we are not burning yet.

Have I told you lately how much I appreciate your help?

My temperature reading is about 8" above the sheet metal surround on the unit, just in case you were looking for a point of reference.

Did I mention how much I appreciate your help and expertise?

Thank you.

David

 

[EbS-P]

Depending which way I turn my damper my probe it directly above or below my damper. I will have to explore that.

 

[davidmsem]

Pretty full box tonight as it's going to be around 30° here.

Damper closed, primary Air closed, boost air blocked, EBT door blocked.

This picture shows there is plenty of secondary burn with fountains of fire.

Draft is at 0.1

Seems like this is really as good as I'm going to get it, but not ruling out any improvement from suggestions.

Exhaust gas temperature about 6 in above the unit 770°ish.

 

[EbS-P]

I’d run a 1/2 to a full cord through give it a sweep and just to confirm all is A OK then call it good enough. I’ve been trying to tune my insert to look like my F400 which run can with 90% secondary flames. I don’t think it is possible with my insert. Too much primary air.

 

[davidmsem]

I’d run a 1/2 to a full cord through give it a sweep and just to confirm all is A OK then call it good enough. I’ve been trying to tune my insert to look like my F400 which run can with 90% secondary flames. I don’t think it is possible with my insert. Too much primary air.

Appreciate the suggestion. I've had two soot eaters break and get stuck in the flue. I'm debating purchasing one of those brushes that's on a reel with a flexible metal wire. A professional sleeping brush so to speak. Has to be done for the bottom. Open to any suggestions for what to purchase.

I honestly don't know if I need to sweep it with exhaust temperatures in the 700s, but you are correct it's probably a good idea. It would involve pulling so instrumentation and the damper out which I'm not looking forward to as I just put this together. Lol.

With my prior set up in a fire I really couldn't control, I would get about a half to a quarter of a teacup of dust when I would sweep the chimney. I wonder how much energy I threw away up that flu with my regency I3100L?

 

[EbS-P]

Appreciate the suggestion. I've had two soot eaters break and get stuck in the flue. I'm debating purchasing one of those brushes that's on a reel with a flexible metal wire. A professional sleeping brush so to speak. Has to be done for the bottom. Open to any suggestions for what to purchase.

I honestly don't know if I need to sweep it with exhaust temperatures in the 700s, but you are correct it's probably a good idea. It would involve pulling so instrumentation and the damper out which I'm not looking forward to as I just put this together. Lol.

With my prior set up in a fire I really couldn't control, I would get about a half to a quarter of a teacup of dust when I would sweep the chimney. I wonder how much energy I threw away up that flu with my regency I3100L?

Yeah the whole damper and probes need pulled for poly head and fiber rods not fun but just to confirm everything looks ok one of those blue tooth boroscope cameras secured to a tape measure or (something else)could get up far enough to see a lot.

Wireless Endoscope Camera, NIDAGE WiFi 5.5mm 1080P HD Borescope Inspection Camera for iPhone Android, 2MP Semi-Rigid Snake Camera for Inspecting Motor Engine Sewer Pipe Vehicle (33FT) https://a.co/d/50i6ktD

 

[davidmsem]

Yeah the whole damper and probes need pulled for poly head and fiber rods not fun but just to confirm everything looks ok one of those blue tooth boroscope cameras secured to a tape measure or (something else)could get up far enough to see a lot.

Wireless Endoscope Camera, NIDAGE WiFi 5.5mm 1080P HD Borescope Inspection Camera for iPhone Android, 2MP Semi-Rigid Snake Camera for Inspecting Motor Engine Sewer Pipe Vehicle (33FT) https://a.co/d/50i6ktD

You guys are great. This is a good suggestion! I would be if there is build up in the flue it would be higher up. Flue is 30'. Clever idea and I thank you. I'm Mr. Gadget so you probably just cost me some $$. (Just joking of course).

 

[davidmsem]

Quick note, so far I love this unit except for the inability to load awhile the fire is going. If I try and add a log where my top down kindling was, a great deal of smoke enters the room, damper opened of course, door opened slowly. This behavior is not as good as the old Regency was. Part of learning this unit.

 

[EbS-P]

Was it spilling before blocking intakes/boat and or ebt?

 

[davidmsem]

Was it spilling before blocking intakes/boat and or ebt?

Yes, in my "first fire” it was doing this, with no modifications. That fire i was ramping up the burn, trying to control the temperature.

 

[EbS-P]

Yes, in my "first fire” it was doing this, with no modifications. That fire i was ramping up the burn, trying to control the temperature.

The trade off of heat up the flue vs long smoke path to heat the stove. You will get it dialed in where you only need to open to reload. Or maybe cook a pizza

 

[davidmsem]

The trade off of heat up the flue vs long smoke path to heat the stove. You will get it dialed in where you only need to open to reload. Or maybe cook a pizza

Yes, only open to reload is the plan.

 

[davidmsem]

I have found a defect in my Pacific Energy Summit LE insert that was resulting in additional, unexpected, primary air flow with the air control lever CLOSED. My fire yesterday was running in the 900s (exhaust temp). I noticed that a trim piece through which the lever passes was PUSHING UP on the lever. It occurred to me that this upward force on the lever might result in a "non-flush" condition over the primary air hole. I confirmed this was the case, the primary air hole would have a non-flush cover if force was applied to the lever.

I found a fix, REMOVE the piece of trim exerting the force on the primary air control lever. The result was very significant. Yesterday's fire had exhaust temperatures in high 900s. With the fix in place, same weather today, same size load of wood, the primary air control lever had much more control over the exhaust temperatures and the exhaust temperatures today were in the 600s. I believe this is a significant defect in my unit.

I've included a picture of the trim piece (removed) and a cartoon of how this defect was affecting the burn.

 

[brenndatomu]

I have found a defect in my Pacific Energy Summit LE insert that was resulting in additional, unexpected, primary air flow with the air control lever CLOSED. My fire yesterday was running in the 900s (exhaust temp). I noticed that a trim piece through which the lever passes was PUSHING UP on the lever. It occurred to me that this upward force on the lever might result in a "non-flush" condition over the primary air hole. I confirmed this was the case, the primary air hole would have a non-flush cover if force was applied to the lever.

I found a fix, REMOVE the piece of trim exerting the force on the primary air control lever. The result was very significant. Yesterday's fire had exhaust temperatures in high 900s. With the fix in place, same weather today, same size load of wood, the primary air control lever had much more control over the exhaust temperatures and the exhaust temperatures today were in the 600s. I believe this is a significant defect in my unit.

I've included a picture of the trim piece (removed) and a cartoon of how this defect was affecting the burn.

View attachment 302998 View attachment 302999

Good catch...that'll make a difference! And I'd let PE know...

 

[stoveliker]

Could you grind away some of the material to avoid the pushing, while retaining some support (if needed) or just retaining the visual benefit of the trim?

 

[davidmsem]

Good catch...that'll make a difference! And I'd let PE know...

I let my local dealer know. With PE the only one that could contact them is a dealer.

 

[davidmsem]

Could you grind away some of the material to avoid the pushing, while retaining some support (if needed) or just retaining the visual benefit of the trim?

I believe what you are suggesting could easily work. At worst I could remove the bottom portion of the opening and maintain some of the cosmetic benefit. I barely notice that trim piece when sitting in the room.

I wonder if other units are experiencing this? This is something to keep in mind on the forum when others experience reduced burn times etc.