In need of help/advice?

[Roospike]

Here's the invoice....

scan too small

 

[acosta2269]

To summarize...

-No block off was installed, instead they stuffed fiberglass insulation to "stop draft and hold the pipe in place"
-A 5 foot liner was installed (6 inches wide)
-No outside air kit was connected to the insert
-Fireplace has 2 interior vents on the sides of the stone (about 5 feet from the floor). The vents are in the stone work (off to the sides (not on the plaster wall) Also has 1 exterior vent (an outside air supply?).
-From what I remember of the inside of the fireplace (how quick we forget) is that is was stone/cement. Definitely not metal (at least not on the exposed part).
-I don't know if its a pre-fab fireplace. I asked the building inspector to look it up on the building plans and the plans said "Superior/or equivalent". I'm not sure what that means. Is Superior a brand name of a Pre-Fab?
-The retailer is a family owned business. The sons of the owners did the installation.
-House was built in 2001
-I spoke to installer today and he was "SHOCKED" that I wasn't getting more heat. He said it was possible that the insulation fell down. "Unlikely, but possible". He asked to me to shut stove down and see if I feel a draft coming in from the insert when its not running. I'm letting the fire die down now and should be out by the morning so I can test for draft. He has no clue about the outside vents and ignores it everytime I bring it up.

 

[acosta2269]

scan

 

[Roospike]

perfect.

 

[Hogwildz]

God I am glad I did my install myself.
The OAK is in the back, there is no photos for it in the manual I don't think.
The side hole for Air from room, in manual says on right side, In reality its on left. You have to break the lil circle out (4"), You can look throught the grille to see if they did break the circle out on the side. The sides & back casings are 1 pc. each. the top is a two pc casing. in your one photos showing the blower on right top side, what is that hanging between the blower outlet & the first casing diverter? A wire of some sort?
When blower is on high, do you at least feel a good bit of air blowing out the front top? I am wondering if the blower might be sucking cooler air from the chimney area. Fiberglass will not stop draft, and I doubt he installed it tight up there to begin with. I still say try covering the vents for the old fireplace and seeing if there is a difference. I think at this point its prolly a combo of things. But it ain't the insert itself.
Shame you ain't close, I'd say buy a full liner, pull it out and do it right. I'd help ya. I am truly losing faith in dealers anymore. He clearly did NOT install as oper manufacturers instructions. I am a newb and mine ws done better by myself.
Hang tight man, these guys will get you through this. That Summit when installed correctly, will be a pleasant surprise. Shame you got a raw deal. But should be fixable.

Edit, I could be wrong about OAK on back. Not sure how that works with these. Seems like they say have a hole with screen to keep rodent out and thats about it, seal the surround tight and done. Strange.
Ok sorry there is a 9" x 2" intake lower rear of insert for OAK

 

[Roospike]

HW , Whats the temp coming out the top front of your insert ands at whats stove temp ?

 

[DriftWood]

Is the duct work around the fire box clear of debris? Could be simple blockage of hot air to exit and by pasing the exit out the top up the stack instead of out the front. I did read it all, you will get it fixed, just keep trying!
MY 2¢

 

[Hogwildz]

HW , Whats the temp coming out the top front of your insert ands at whats stove temp ?

Stove temps been around 600-650 near front corner of door last few nights, finally cold here. I aint got a thermometer to measure the blown air, Id say between 175-200 degrees though, Def MORE than 78 degrees or whatever he is getting.

Correction 700* just checked, 9* outside with 15 mph wind and 71 in here. Going to have to insulate the basement wall sills. Basements around 50* but floors are chilly on bare feet

 

[acosta2269]

God I am glad I did my install myself.
in your one photos showing the blower on right top side, what is that hanging between the blower outlet & the first casing diverter? A wire of some sort?
When blower is on high, do you at least feel a good bit of air blowing out the front top? I am wondering if the blower might be sucking cooler air from the chimney area.

I'm not sure which picture you're talking about. the one picture has a wired thermometer hanging in front of the blower. The readout is above on the mantle but the sensor hangs down by that wire. I'm not sure if that's the picture you're talking about.

Hang tight man, these guys will get you through this. That Summit when installed correctly, will be a pleasant surprise. Shame you got a raw deal. But should be fixable.

I'm hanging in there. I have all the confidence in the world in the people on this forum. A hell of a lot more than my installer! I've been the one giving him suggestions.

 

[acosta2269]

HW , Whats the temp coming out the top front of your insert ands at whats stove temp ?

Stove temps been around 600-650 near front corner of door last few nights, finally cold here. I aint got a thermometer to measure the blown air, Id say between 175-200 degrees though, Def MORE than 78 degrees or whatever he is getting.

Sure...keep rubbing it in.

 

[Hogwildz]

doh, double post.

 

[Hogwildz]

HW , Whats the temp coming out the top front of your insert ands at whats stove temp ?

Stove temps been around 600-650 near front corner of door last few nights, finally cold here. I aint got a thermometer to measure the blown air, Id say between 175-200 degrees though, Def MORE than 78 degrees or whatever he is getting.

Sure...keep rubbing it in.

We'll get ya fixed up man. What area you in? If your close, I'll come help you out.

 

[acosta2269]

Thanks for the offer. I'm about an hour north of NYC, probably a little too far.

 

[Gunner]

Had a long post written and lost it....and it's late, don't you just hate that.

Don't know how I missed this thread back in Dec. but this is the first time I saw it.

IMO not enough draft and tons of heat loss out that chimney, I bet a full liner and block off plate cures the problem.

Good luck to you.

 

[Hogwildz]

Thanks for the offer. I'm about an hour north of NYC, probably a little too far.

Hmm, well if you need help, just lemme know. Can't be more than a few hours. Figure your plan, and let me know. I'd personally figure for a blockoff plate, but we have to find where the hot air is going, and where the cold air is coming from. Did you look to see if the installer knocked the inside air circle out on the side casing? You can look thorugh the side surround grille to check. Mine is on the left side as I said earlier. The manual sayd right, but mine was on left, and seeing your blower is on the right like mine, I think yours inside air knock out is also going to be on the left side.

 

[acosta2269]

I think we're narrowing it down (I hope). I still have questions about if the vents (interior and exterior) are effecting the insert. How can I find out if they are factoring into this? I have a meeting with the building inspector tomorrow morning. Is there anything I can ask him to help me determine if the vents are also part of the problem?

 

[Roospike]

Here is one thing i do not understand .................

If the stove is made for an outside air kit / out side air supply and outside air IS supplied to a stove the stove should put out hotter then 73° from the top of the stove when the thermometer shows 500°

 

[acosta2269]

Thanks for the offer. I'm about an hour north of NYC, probably a little too far.

Hmm, well if you need help, just lemme know. Can't be more than a few hours. Figure your plan, and let me know. I'd personally figure for a blockoff plate, but we have to find where the hot air is going, and where the cold air is coming from. Did you look to see if the installer knocked the inside air circle out on the side casing? You can look thorugh the side surround grille to check. Mine is on the left side as I said earlier. The manual sayd right, but mine was on left, and seeing your blower is on the right like mine, I think yours inside air knock out is also going to be on the left side.

I checked the left side and the side is still in tack. The hole was not punched out. I can't tell on the right side, because the blower is in the way.

Should it be punched out?

 

[Hogwildz]

I think we're narrowing it down (I hope). I still have questions about if the vents (interior and exterior) are effecting the insert. How can I find out if they are factoring into this? I have a meeting with the building inspector tomorrow morning. Is there anything I can ask him to help me determine if the vents are also part of the problem?

I would ask him, since the old firebox is not in use. And the insert has a casing & such. Can you block the old vents off to keep drafts out.
I would also at least temporarily block them up and see if it helps any. Its easy enough to do,and you can always unblock them.
Last time I am going to ask. Did you look through the side grille to see if the inside air outlet is knocked out? Its a 4" hole in the left side gray casing down near the bottom. I am trying to determine where your air is being brought into the insert from.

 

[acosta2269]

Here is one thing i do not understand .................

If the stove is made for an outside air kit / out side air supply and outside air IS supplied to a stove the stove should put out hotter then 73° from the top of the stove when the thermometer shows 500°

Wouldn't the outside air supply have to be "hooked up" to the insert with an Outside Air Kit of some sort? It currently isn't.

 

[Hogwildz]

Here is one thing i do not understand .................

If the stove is made for an outside air kit / out side air supply and outside air IS supplied to a stove the stove should put out hotter then 73° from the top of the stove when the thermometer shows 500°

The outside air supply does not connect directly to the stove, they say to use the ash cleanout with a piece of screen over it, and back the stove up to it, being careful not to cover it. If his front temp is 600 or what not, that blower air has got to be hotter than 73*. Its got to be. Now if he actually doesn't have outside air, and they didn't knock the side knock out in the side casing, for inside air draw, he may not be getting free flowing air to the blower. That may be the problem.
BTW how do you do the "degree" symbol on a kewboard? LOL

 

[Roospike]

Here is one thing i do not understand .................

If the stove is made for an outside air kit / out side air supply and outside air IS supplied to a stove the stove should put out hotter then 73° from the top of the stove when the thermometer shows 500°

Wouldn't the outside air supply have to be "hooked up" to the insert with an Outside Air Kit of some sort? It currently isn't.

Yes it would have to be hooked up to get the correct supply , but even if the supply line is not hooked up and its drawing it air from a air leak from the outside and from around the outside of the insert you should still be getting hot air from the blower.

 

[Hogwildz]

Here is one thing i do not understand .................

If the stove is made for an outside air kit / out side air supply and outside air IS supplied to a stove the stove should put out hotter then 73° from the top of the stove when the thermometer shows 500°

Wouldn't the outside air supply have to be "hooked up" to the insert with an Outside Air Kit of some sort? It currently isn't.

NO by the manual, its a 9" x 2" intake on the rear lower part of the insert. You would take the cover off your ash cleanout, if there is one (do you remember there being an ash cleanout in that old firebox?) or they would knock the 4" knockout in the side casing , then it would take inside air for intake air. Page 8 of the manual top left corner. Give it a read.

 

[Roospike]

Here is one thing i do not understand .................

If the stove is made for an outside air kit / out side air supply and outside air IS supplied to a stove the stove should put out hotter then 73° from the top of the stove when the thermometer shows 500°

The outside air supply does not connect directly to the stove, they say to use the ash cleanout with a piece of screen over it, and back the stove up to it, being careful not to cover it. If his front temp is 600 or what not, that blower air has got to be hotter than 73*. Its got to be. Now if he actually doesn't have outside air, and they didn't knock the side knock out in the side casing, for inside air draw, he may not be getting free flowing air to the blower. That may be the problem.
BTW how do you do the "degree" symbol on a kewboard? LOL

hahahahaha , i waited over a year for somebody to ask me that , YOUR THE FIRST !

************************************************************************
degree symbol :

Hold your "Alt" key the same time you type in 248 on your key pad on the right. °

 

[Hogwildz]

Thanks for the offer. I'm about an hour north of NYC, probably a little too far.

Hmm, well if you need help, just lemme know. Can't be more than a few hours. Figure your plan, and let me know. I'd personally figure for a blockoff plate, but we have to find where the hot air is going, and where the cold air is coming from. Did you look to see if the installer knocked the inside air circle out on the side casing? You can look thorugh the side surround grille to check. Mine is on the left side as I said earlier. The manual sayd right, but mine was on left, and seeing your blower is on the right like mine, I think yours inside air knock out is also going to be on the left side.

I checked the left side and the side is still in tack. The hole was not punched out. I can't tell on the right side, because the blower is in the way.

Should it be punched out?

Ok, you only use one or the other, Outside air, which is drawn in the lower rear intake from an old ash cleanout in the extisting fireplace.
Or the inside air drawn from that circle on the left side casing. Which yours is not knocked out. There wont be one on the blower side. Just the left side one.
So do you remember there being an ash cleanout in the old fireplace? THey might not have it set up for either, which may be part of the probelm.