How to recognize normal operation vs a real problem

[edthedawg]

tutu_sue,

Don't take this as bashing, but you are doing something wrong there. The stove should easily get to 400+ (cheap magnetic Rutland sitting on the top center of the stove) w/ good wood. I can do a full-packed load on a stone-cold stove and get it to flame up and get hot w/ a lot less effort than it sounds like you're having to put in...

We have folks here who have run their Tributes so hard they cracked and warped. Highbeam runs his Heritage up to 550. I've hit 500 this year twice so far without even hardly trying. Assuming the stove is not broken, then it ain't the stove!!

Last year it was more of a challenge - I had poor wood then. Better wood = better fire, hands down.

 

[tutu_sue]

Well my situation is different. Good thing I don't have to push this stove higher to get the heat I need. The way I do it, I get very little smoke out of the chimney and only 1 cup of stuff after a burning season. Hubby wouldn't be happy on the roof more than once a season. I have the neighbors house very close, so I try do it as smokeless as possible. It's not a lot of effort - I manage to do it with two little ones here.

I guess my point was to point out that since it's not cold on Long Island yet, maybe if he's using big logs of marginal wood during the shoulder season, that could be why his stove is disappointing him.

 

[PunKid8888]

I have recently started using a new EPA cert stove after many many years using a 30 year old simple two chamber air tight, and I am trying to debug some possible issues.

your very first sentence answers your own question. Your trying to apply your 30years of pre EPA stove burning, to a New EPA stove. Do you still pump the throttle on your car when you fire it up in the morning?


How about, play with the stove for a month or two trying different things before you go throw it off the deep end. I guarantee in the middle of the winter when you have figured out how to run it you will be singing a different tune.

 

[daveswoodhauler]

Read your post from another thread.
I would have the dealer come back with some seasoned wood, and get them to stay there until they can get a fire going and bring that stove up to normal operating temps.
I know that there is a learning curve to each stove, but it should not be this difficult, and I am not sure if the air control lever issue has been resolved? (If the stove isn't blazing with kiln dried 2X4's there has got to be a problem with the stove IMHO

 

[gyrfalcon]

tutu_sue,

Don't take this as bashing, but you are doing something wrong there. The stove should easily get to 400+ (cheap magnetic Rutland sitting on the top center of the stove) w/ good wood. I can do a full-packed load on a stone-cold stove and get it to flame up and get hot w/ a lot less effort than it sounds like you're having to put in...

We have folks here who have run their Tributes so hard they cracked and warped. Highbeam runs his Heritage up to 550. I've hit 500 this year twice so far without even hardly trying. Assuming the stove is not broken, then it ain't the stove!!

Last year it was more of a challenge - I had poor wood then. Better wood = better fire, hands down.

I agree (sorry, Tu!) there's something not right here. We all have our own techniques, but I've learned with the Tribute, I can't let it get down to coals at that early a stage and expect to get a good temp on the second load. I can now easily go up to 400 on the second load, usually 450, and I now know how to get up to 500 when necessary in the worst below-zero temps plus wind.

I don't wait for the first kindling fire to go down to coals, but just until it's burned enough to collapse a little, then add more still fairly small splits. When the box is about 2/3 full at that point, it easily runs up to 400-450. I do find I can only easily light from coals at 400, or close to it. If I let it get down to 300 coals before reloading, then I have to fuss with medium kindling again before putting something larger on.

 

[tutu_sue]

From what I understand from you guys, you have older homes. My house was built in 1989 and is very well insulated with thermopane windows. I don't need to get the stove up to 400F. 75 is way too warm for us. So don't bash my technique - bash my energy efficient house!!

 

[fraxinus]

I'm in a situation identical to AlexNY. No question there is a learning curve when switching to an EPA stove from an old timer; in my case 32 years with a Defiant to a Jotul f600. Certainly the Defiant was more tolerant of less than perfectly seasoned wood and was easier to start, especially since with the damper open the Defiant produced a very powerful draft. After a month with the new stove, though, I think I'm getting the hang of it.

As others have noted, it is important to get the stove up to 400+ degrees before adding a lot of wood. I find myself starting with a good deal more kindling than in the past, then adding small pieces of very dry wood I've had stashed for at least 3 years. Once the thermometer on the stove top hits 400 there has been no problem adding wood which was split last October. I've also found that you do not want to let the fire burn down very much before adding more wood. That 400 temp really seems to be the secret to good ignition and clean, no smoke burns.

Now a question: Jotul says the most efficient operating temperatures are between 400 and 600. What exactly happens if you're between 300 and 350? This is a very comfortable operating temperature at this time of year once the stove has accumulated a good bed of coals; I don't see any smoke coming from the chimney, the glass stays clean, the secondary burn works, etc. On the other hand, I don't want to be promoting creosote by operating below 400, either.

Finally a comment. It would seem not terribly hard for manufacturers to add some sort of bypass type arrangement to increase air and thereby assist in fire starting. This would would make things a good deal easier to manage in modern EPA stoves. (And discourage people from using the ash removal system and/or loading door for the same purpose) Is such an arrangement specifically prohibited by EPA regs?

 

[grommal]

I'm in a situation identical to AlexNY. No question there is a learning curve when switching to an EPA stove from an old timer; in my case 32 years with a Defiant to a Jotul f600. Certainly the Defiant was more tolerant of less than perfectly seasoned wood and was easier to start, especially since with the damper open the Defiant produced a very powerful draft. After a month with the new stove, though, I think I'm getting the hang of it.

As others have noted, it is important to get the stove up to 400+ degrees before adding a lot of wood. I find myself starting with a good deal more kindling than in the past, then adding small pieces of very dry wood I've had stashed for at least 3 years. Once the thermometer on the stove top hits 400 there has been no problem adding wood which was split last October. I've also found that you do not want to let the fire burn down very much before adding more wood. That 400 temp really seems to be the secret to good ignition and clean, no smoke burns.

Now a question: Jotul says the most efficient operating temperatures are between 400 and 600. What exactly happens if you're between 300 and 350? This is a very comfortable operating temperature at this time of year once the stove has accumulated a good bed of coals; I don't see any smoke coming from the chimney, the glass stays clean, the secondary burn works, etc. On the other hand, I don't want to be promoting creosote by operating below 400, either.

Finally a comment. It would seem not terribly hard for manufacturers to add some sort of bypass type arrangement to increase air and thereby assist in fire starting. This would would make things a good deal easier to manage in modern EPA stoves. (And discourage people from using the ash removal system and/or loading door for the same purpose) Is such an arrangement specifically prohibited by EPA regs?

Some new EPA stoves have an extra startup air inlet. Quadrafires, for example, which I also looked at before finally deciding on an Oslo. So, it's not prohibited by any regulations.

I'd say that if you have no smoke from the chimney, clean glass, and visible secondary burn, you're burning cleanly and efficiently, even if the stovetop is below 400. Not a bad idea with any new stove to do a few extra chimney inspections until you get a feel for the creosote production. The new stove, if burning well, should be way cleaner than the old pre-EPA Defiant.

My startup situation is exactly the reverse of yours. I had a first-gen VC Defiant Encore cat stove. You definitely needed to crack the door open when starting that one, and leave it open for a good 15 minutes at least, even in very cold weather with strong draft. With my new Oslo, as soon as the newspaper catches, I can close the door and off it goes (using top-down fire build), using only the primary air intake on full open.

 

[gyrfalcon]

I'd say that if you have no smoke from the chimney, clean glass, and visible secondary burn, you're burning cleanly and efficiently, even if the stovetop is below 400. Not a bad idea with any new stove to do a few extra chimney inspections until you get a feel for the creosote production. The new stove, if burning well, should be way cleaner than the old pre-EPA Defiant.

That's been my experience, as well. My first season burning, typical newbie, I had only semi-seasoned wood and a very hard time learning how the stove worked, so only rarely was able to get the temp up as high as 400. I was very, very anxious about creosote build-up, but the sweep only got a couple of cupfuls out of the 20-foot chimney. He had told me it wouldn't be a problem with this stove despite my low-temp fires and lousy wood, and he was right.

 

[gyrfalcon]

From what I understand from you guys, you have older homes. My house was built in 1989 and is very well insulated with thermopane windows. I don't need to get the stove up to 400F. 75 is way too warm for us. So don't bash my technique - bash my energy efficient house!!

OK, OK. I console myself that my leaky old home at least is never going to poison me with mold... Just wanted to make sure the OP knew, though, that he didn't have to settle for 300-degree fires.

 

[BrotherBart]

In another thread Alex says he is getting a handle on running the stove so it looks like this thread has done its job and I am closing it.