Need help to figure out what we need to do.

[fire_man]

I do not know if this is helpful but I always have to prime the chimney. I use a torch and have to let it warm up for a few minutes. If I rush it and don't prime it long enough when I start the fire the smoke will swirl around in the stove a bit until the draft starts.

The fact that you have to prime the flue in itself does not mean the draft is bad, it just means the flue is cold. Very tall flues that draft like hoovers still need priming in the cold.

But location with respect to hills, trees and rooflines can mess up what would have otherwise been a great setup. Too many bends in the pipe would also require more height than a straight flue, especially if any of the bends are right angles.

 

[stoveliker]

Hm if the wind blowing from the south does work with the chimney on the other (north) side of the ridge, the home is not the issue.
And the North side seems to slope down, so no clear ridge curl either. Doesn't mean there can't be one, but it's not obvious.

 

[fire_man]

Another less obvious cause could be an air leak within the heating envelope of the house. Especially if there is an exhaust fan to the outside but that does not seem to be the issue. The fact it happens during wind events leads me to think its related to the terrain and surroundings, in which case getting the correct cap and increasing flue height would be the solution.

 

[bigealta]

Is the oak on the south side of the house? With the intake on the opposite side of the problem north winds side, the winds can more easily blow down thru your chimney and firebox and oak. It would be similar if you opened a window on the south side of the house when the north winds are smoking out the house. That south open window would allow even more smoke into the house from pressure differences. If you have the oak on the north side it should reduce this potential problem. You can try opening a window on the North side and see what happens with north winds blowing.

The solution would probably be a taller chimney either way so all that may be just something to help understand what could be going on with your setup.

Also 2nd the bee /wasp nest possibility.

 

[vatmark]

Is the oak on the south side of the house? With the intake on the opposite side of the problem north winds side, the winds can more easily blow down thru your chimney and firebox and oak. It would be similar if you opened a window on the south side of the house when the north winds are smoking out the house. That south open window would allow even more smoke into the house from pressure differences. If you have the oak on the north side it should reduce this potential problem. You can try opening a window on the North side and see what happens with north winds blowing.

The solution would probably be a taller chimney either way so all that may be just something to help understand what could be going on with your setup.

Also 2nd the bee /wasp nest possibility.

The OAK actually pulls air from the east side of the house...basically the back of the house.

We are going to try and remove the OAK vent outside and send something through it to see if there is some sort of blockage.

I would describe the fire in the stove as lazy. Today I used some small splits and some thin wood and some small kindling along with 2 bio bricks and a super cedar which I cut into 4 and used all 4 pieces. After 45 minutes you would think it would blaze up at some point but it was just lazy flames.

 

[EbS-P]

The OAK actually pulls air from the east side of the house...basically the back of the house.

We are going to try and remove the OAK vent outside and send something through it to see if there is some sort of blockage.

I would describe the fire in the stove as lazy. Today I used some small splits and some thin wood and some small kindling along with 2 bio bricks and a super cedar which I cut into 4 and used all 4 pieces. After 45 minutes you would think it would blaze up at some point but it was just lazy flames.

it would be faster to disconnect at the stove. And major blockage needs vacuumed out and you can’t do that with a stove that is warm.

 

[vatmark]

it would be faster to disconnect at the stove. And major blockage needs vacuumed out and you can’t do that with a stove that is warm.Some air is gettign through the

it would be faster to disconnect at the stove. And major blockage needs vacuumed out and you can’t do that with a stove that is warm

it would be faster to disconnect at the stove. And major blockage needs vacuumed out and you can’t do that with a stove that is warm.

No it would not be faster to disconnect at the stove. I think if we try to disconnect at the stove we may never get it connected again. I've included a pic of what it looks like.

No plans on trying to do anything with the OAK while stove is warm. There is some air coming through the OAK because when I took off the air control I could feel some air coming through. If there is a blockage I do not think it is a total blockage. If it is a wasp nest something is going to need to go into the pipe to get it out. Using a vacuum at the end of a 8 1/2 foot long pipe is not going to pull much out. So we will first send something in like a long dusting brush to see what comes out. If there is a wasp nest it needs to be loosened at its anchor point. Then we can try the vacuum.

Can someone explain why disconnecting the OAK would make a difference? You are either getting air from outside or air from inside so what does the disconnecting the OAK do? Is it more restrictive then just not having it?

Also how in the world do you get rid of the text under a user name. Mine says Burning Hunk. I am a woman. LOL

 

[bigealta]

Disconnecting oak at stove will let it run with unrestricted air. If your oak has any restrictions then it's restricting the air to the stove.

 

[fire_man]

This article about the "myth" of the need for an OAK is interesting

A non-commercial service in support of responsible home heating with wood - The Outdoor Air Myth Exposed

The Wood Heat Organization was formed to support the public in the responsible use of wood energy in the home. We fulfill our mandate by providing reliable information, by conducting research into wood heating-related issues and by representing the public interest in discussions of policies that...

www.woodheat.org

 

[stoveliker]

Good read.
I think they are too strong though in their assertions.
They list dangers and possible things that would affect OAKs,and those are valid.
But I have the impression (no sources, but they don't give any references either despite science claims...) that their listed disadvantages are in practice not occurring very much. In particular the dangers would likely have lead to code revisions if they occur often....

And an OAk or ERV is in some cases a good solution to a problem. Does that mean it works well in every case, and in every instance of a case where it solves a problem? Probably not. But that doesn't negate the value they can have.

 

[fire_man]

There was one takeaway from the article that was particularly pertinent for this thread:

"The advantage of taking combustion air directly from the room in which the stove or fireplace is installed is that the building envelope moderates the effect of wind on the air supply by damping out wind-induced pressure fluctuations. The pressure inside the house will still be affected by wind to some extent, but the flow resistance offered by the envelope tends to remove the peaks and valleys of high and low pressure caused by wind gusts."

It also makes the general statement that there is no scientific evidence that an OAK really helps with smoke spillage, but allows that in some cases it may be necessary.

Its really a difficult thing to analyze in some cases so trial and error becomes the go-to solution.

 

[bigealta]

The sketches in this article show exactly what were were just talking about with location of oak inlet.
Good article makes a ton of sense.
I always thought an oak was a questionable add on, and for even more reasons than this article talks about..

 

[vatmark]

I will have to go read that article.

We are going to start with seeing if the OAK is partially blocked. It is suppose to get up to 50 tomorrow so we won't have a fire running so that would be a good time to do it. If that is clear then we will visit just disconnecting it which is going to be a complete PITA.Ewe will have to somehow cut through the pipe entering the stove and won't be able to get it back on. Then we also will have to address the hole in the hearth. I guess we would have to find some sort of cap to cap it up. Thing is in all likelihood that won't be what the issue is because that would be too easy and things never go that easy for us.

We did not request the OAK. When we had our house built the only thing we did was pick out the stove we wanted. The builder put the OAK in. We really didn't know anything about wood burning stoves. We have always had gas fireplaces which we never used because we hated them.

Thanks you everyone for your help.

 

[bigealta]

Maybe jack up the stove and put it on blocks. Easy with some 2x4's. if your stove pipe is simple to take off or u have a telescoping section.
Leave the hole open that's the whole point of disconnecting the oak.

 

[stoveliker]

I would refrain from disconnecting the OAK if you can't get it back on.
A new home may be very tight and, despite what's in that article, many folks do end up with issues due to that tightness which are reasonably often solved by an OAK. That is not acknowledged in that article.

I'm not saying an OAk is always a solution, and air pressure as written about in that article may indeed be a cause here. But if it's not, and if your home is too tight (it does happen despite the assertions in that article), you may end up with a system you can't use without CO leaking out and smoke rolling out much more consistently than you have now.

 

[DuaeGuttae]

I agree with Stoveliker that I would not disconnect the OAK if you can't be sure of reconnecting it. Maybe I missed a picture of it, but perhaps you could post a shot that shows how it's connected to the stove, and folks here could give you advice about disconnecting it without cutting a pipe. I would expect that it might clamp on in some way.

What year did you have your house built? Was there ever an energy audit done so that you know how leaky or not leaky it is? We just had a new home built, and when we were discussing the stove installation with the stove installer, he said he always puts an OAK in any new construction these days as it's so much tighter than an older home. Do you know if you have an ERV [energy recovery ventilator] in your home or some sort of fan like a radon fan that evacuates air?

I do think it's worth making sure that there isn't a blockage in the OAK, but am I correct that this is not a new problem, that it has been present all along with your stove installation? I wonder if it's just simply that you need a bit more pipe at the top to deal with your flue height and any little jogs or elbows that the pipe makes to avoid rafters. What's your elevation?

On a totally different note, I'm not sure that there's anything that you as a member can do about the "Burning Hunk" nomenclature. It's just a forum which has a mostly male user base, and so we ladies just have to endure the misconception. If it really bothers you, you could try sending a private message to a moderator like Begreen to see he can adjust it since he seems to have a custom title under his username.

 

[vatmark]

Maybe jack up the stove and put it on blocks. Easy with some 2x4's. if your stove pipe is simple to take off or u have a telescoping section.
Leave the hole open that's the whole point of disconnecting the oak.

I am talking about closing up the hole in the hearth where the pipe comes up through to connect to the stove not closing up the hole in the actual stove.

 

[vatmark]

I would refrain from disconnecting the OAK if you can't get it back on.
A new home may be very tight and, despite what's in that article, many folks do end up with issues due to that tightness which are reasonably often solved by an OAK. That is not acknowledged in that article.

I'm not saying an OAk is always a solution, and air pressure as written about in that article may indeed be a cause here. But if it's not, and if your home is too tight (it does happen despite the assertions in that article), you may end up with a system you can't use without CO leaking out and smoke rolling out much more consistently than you have now.

It's a log cabin. It is not in the least bit tight. Saw dust has blown through from between the logs when it gets really windy.

 

[bigealta]

Just stick an old plate or dish over it. It's probably just temporary.

You could tape the opening, just don't use a tape that's too sticky. Then a dish or tile or the like over that.

 

[vatmark]

I agree with Stoveliker that I would not disconnect the OAK if you can't be sure of reconnecting it. Maybe I missed a picture of it, but perhaps you could post a shot that shows how it's connected to the stove, and folks here could give you advice about disconnecting it without cutting a pipe. I would expect that it might clamp on in some way.

What year did you have your house built? Was there ever an energy audit done so that you know how leaky or not leaky it is? We just had a new home built, and when we were discussing the stove installation with the stove installer, he said he always puts an OAK in any new construction these days as it's so much tighter than an older home. Do you know if you have an ERV [energy recovery ventilator] in your home or some sort of fan like a radon fan that evacuates air?

I do think it's worth making sure that there isn't a blockage in the OAK, but am I correct that this is not a new problem, that it has been present all along with your stove installation? I wonder if it's just simply that you need a bit more pipe at the top to deal with your flue height and any little jogs or elbows that the pipe makes to avoid rafters. What's your elevation?

On a totally different note, I'm not sure that there's anything that you as a member can do about the "Burning Hunk" nomenclature. It's just a forum which has a mostly male user base, and so we ladies just have to endure the misconception. If it really bothers you, you could try sending a private message to a moderator like Begreen to see he can adjust it since he seems to have a custom title under his username.

No energy audit done but i can tell you the place is far from tight. It is a log cabin. When we get a lot of wind a little bit of saw dust will come through the logs in some areas. Tightness is not an issue.

I really do not want to disconnect the OAK. No there is no clamp. Looks like they just used pieces of some sort of black piping to make a connection.

This problem has gone on for at least a few years. I am the one that operates the stove and there has been so many times I would get so frustrated. I can't tell you for sure if it has been since the beginning which was 7 years ago because we didn't know what we were doing in the beginning. The first and second years we only had a few fires. I do remember we had a time within the first few years when the stove top got up to 600 degrees and I started freaking out thinking we would damage the stove. Again we had no idea what we were doing. The wind gusts causing backdrafts has been a problem since the beginning.

We are at 1700 ft elevation.

I'm not too bothered about the burning hunk thing. I actually thought it was funny. Just wondered if there was a way to change it.

 

[vatmark]

Here is an closeup image of the cobbled together piping they made to connect stove to OAK. As you can see there is no easy way to just disconnect the OAK. It goes down through the cement top.

 

[stoveliker]

It's a log cabin. It is not in the least bit tight. Saw dust has blown through from between the logs when it gets really windy.

Then I take back my suggestion.

 

[vatmark]

Update: OAK pipe was clear. We could see all the way in but for good measure used a dryer vent cleaning brush to make sure. Then we removed the air control cover and blew air through it with a leaf blower. Just some dust came out.

However..... we realized the vent exhaust piece on the house had a damper in it. That can't be right can it? This is passive air so how would the damper even open. Well even if it is suppose to be on there we ripped it out. We will have to wait for some colder weather to see if that helped. Will probably have a fire tomorrow evening.

 

[stoveliker]

Are you saying the OAK air inlet on the outside wall of the home had a damper - one that only opens when air flow out of the house (as normal drier vents do)?

If so, you may have found the culprit!

Good sleuthing!

 

[vatmark]

Are you saying the OAK air inlet on the outside wall of the home had a damper - one that only opens when air flow out of the house (as normal drier vents do)?

If so, you may have found the culprit!

Good sleuthing!

Yes. I believe the exhaust vent on the house was made for air being pushed out. The exhaust looks like something that should be on a roof. I think maybe they just repurposed a roof vent to use for this.