Heat Output: cat vs. non-cat

[dyerkutn]

I ran a cat stove for 25 years and now the T5 on it's 2nd year and have been happy with it.. Not sure why you feel a secondary burn stove is a bad thing..

Ray

I guess because I have gotten so used to managing the one I have--kind of know its cycle and quirks. A lot of what I read said they are better for controlling air and doing a slow burn. However, I will strongly take into account your current experience since you have done both and are clearly much more experienced than me.

Make the title of your other thread "Need a BK dealer in Boston Area."


One detail that will help to narrow down the list of stoves:

Do you want/need a top-venting or rear-venting stove?

great idea dddddden? You have been a super help and Ray and everyone else too.

 

[ddddddden]

great idea dddddden? You have been a super help and Ray and everyone else too.

"What it's all about."


Good move on the ceiling fan.
Putting a small fan on the floor blowing cooler air out of the bedroom toward the stove would probably help too. . .the theory is that it's easier to move cold air than hot air.

 

[raybonz]

I guess because I have gotten so used to managing the one I have--kind of know its cycle and quirks. A lot of what I read said they are better for controlling air and doing a slow burn. However, I will strongly take into account your current experience since you have done both and are clearly much more experienced than me.
great idea dddddden? You have been a super help and Ray and everyone else too.

What stove are you burning in now? The learning curve on the T5 was short.. You have one lever that controls primary and secondary air at the same time.. Where the learning comes in is the shoulder seasons where filling the stove and lighting a match will drive you out of the house lol.. Larger splits tightly packed and smaller loads are the answer here which comes with experience.. BTW what town are you located in? I live in Carver and work in S. Boston.

Ray

 

[dyerkutn]

What stove are you burning in now? The learning curve on the T5 was short.. You have one lever that controls primary and secondary air at the same time.. Where the learning comes in is the shoulder seasons where filling the stove and lighting a match will drive you out of the house lol.. Larger splits tightly packed and smaller loads are the answer here which comes with experience.. BTW what town are you located in? I live in Carver and work in S. Boston.

Ray

I am in Lexington--you have quite a commute. I am using a 1985 Dutchwest India 224CCL--knock off of the DWC and looks just like it. I first posted on Pre 1988 DWC forum a couple of years ago to find some parts and a manual and get advice on using it and to look for a service person.

I went to a dealer yesterday who said I cannot possibly be using the cat because it is so old. But doesn't that depend on the number of hours or cords you burn in a year. This stove has seen light use compared to most people who post here. From the cat thermomet it gets up to 500 in about 15 minutes. When I close the by pass it gets up to 800 about 10 minutes and when I close the primary air it shoots up to 1000 and stays there. I have checked my chiminey outside and I don't seem to have any smoke when it is closed up. I have the pipe cleaned and they say it does not collect that much, though that same dealer said she would not trust the chimney sweep I use.

 

[dyerkutn]

I am in Lexington--you have quite a commute. I am using a 1985 Dutchwest India 224CCL--knock off of the DWC and looks just like it. I first posted on Pre 1988 DWC forum a couple of years ago to find some parts and a manual and get advice on using it and to look for a service person.

I went to a dealer yesterday who said I cannot possibly be using the cat because it is so old. But doesn't that depend on the number of hours or cords you burn in a year. This stove has seen light use compared to most people who post here. From the cat thermomet it gets up to 500 in about 15 minutes. When I close the by pass it gets up to 800 about 10 minutes and when I close the primary air it shoots up to 1000 and stays there. I have checked my chiminey outside and I don't seem to have any smoke when it is closed up. I have the pipe cleaned and they say it does not collect that much, though that same dealer said she would not trust the chimney sweep I use.

ps what is this reward point system that came in my alert box?

 

[raybonz]

I am in Lexington--you have quite a commute. I am using a 1985 Dutchwest India 224CCL--knock off of the DWC and looks just like it. I first posted on Pre 1988 DWC forum a couple of years ago to find some parts and a manual and get advice on using it and to look for a service person.

I went to a dealer yesterday who said I cannot possibly be using the cat because it is so old. But doesn't that depend on the number of hours or cords you burn in a year. This stove has seen light use compared to most people who post here. From the cat thermomet it gets up to 500 in about 15 minutes. When I close the by pass it gets up to 800 about 10 minutes and when I close the primary air it shoots up to 1000 and stays there. I have checked my chiminey outside and I don't seem to have any smoke when it is closed up. I have the pipe cleaned and they say it does not collect that much, though that same dealer said she would not trust the chimney sweep I use.

Yes I drive 47 miles each way.. Been doing it 5 years so I am used to it.. As for your stove you have the small CDW stove and it isn't a knockoff it was bought by VC years ago and they still make them except in VT instead of China. Your dealer knows nothing about cats as yours sounds like it's working just fine.. I owned the same vintage stove as yours except I had the large CDW and decided to replace it due to parts availability plus creosote issues and I was tired of fiddling with it.. Amazingly I got $350.00 for it! The learning curve on the old CDW's was huge I will say that! Quite a few old CDW burners changed over to the Alderlea stoves oddly enough and the reports they posted convinced me that was the direction I wanted to go.. I really like to see the rolling fire in this stove and the window requires only occasional cleaning! The CDW windows generally stayed black and even the new cat stoves tend to do this when run for long burns but will clean up if you crank them up.. BTW welcome to the forum

Ray

 

[raybonz]

ps what is this reward point system that came in my alert box?

Nothing to be concerned about it's forum type stuff.. More likes give "awards", more posts will change you from a new member to another lofty title lol.. This is a good forum with good people and have met a few members up at Woodstock factory one of them being a woman (GammaRay). Kick up your feet and relax you'll like it here

Ray

 

[dyerkutn]

I was tired of fiddling with it

The learning curve on the old CDW's was huge I will say that!

The CDW windows generally stayed black

Your dealer knows nothing about cats as yours sounds like it's working just fine.

Glad to hear the descriptions of your tangling with the CDW. Makes me confirm that I have not been doing anything wrong.

I will definitely not go back to that dealer!! I thought from other posts that I had seen that I was managing it OK.

 

[raybonz]

Glad to hear the descriptions of your tangling with the CDW. Makes me confirm that I have not been doing anything wrong.

I will definitely not go back to that dealer!! I thought from other posts that I had seen that I was managing it OK.

LOL wrestling more than tangling! Most of the time it would behave OK and at times not backpuff for a month then do it again!! Just when I would think I had it figured it out it would throw another curve.. The T5 was ridiculously simple by comparison.. It is NOT the operator it IS the stove !

Ray

 

[HotCoals]

You want a long slow burn get a cat...you want a shorter burn with more heat get a tube..pretty simple ..but good luck with whatever you do.
With temps above 35-40 i can do 24 hour loads. A little warmer out yet and 40-48 hour burns are not unheard of.
That's with really good seasoned hardwood..about 80 lbs of it..lol.

 

[dyerkutn]

Yes, in that thread, we were talking about large stoves, but that list covers most of the manufacturers of cat stoves.

~2-cu-ft cat stoves:
Woodstock
Buck
BK


That's a good question. Offhand, I'd say yeah, because not being able to close the air becomes more of an issue as the size of the load of wood increases. . .there are no 4-cu-ft non-cats. OTOH, it's generally easier to get longer burn times with a bigger stove than with a smaller stove. . .

How 'bout this article:

this article is very helpfu

 

[dyerkutn]

That's why I crossed BK off of the list.
Hard to believe that there are no BK dealers in the Boston area though. Maybe she's going by the dysfunctional dealer locator on the BK website. . .

Just ran across a 2009 thread about finding BK dealers is New England--same complaint--very hard to find--some people drive 3 or 4 hours to get one. I don't think I will do that what with limited time and not even knowing if I would like it. will stick closer to home.

 

[ddddddden]

Just ran across a 2009 thread about finding BK dealers is New England--same complaint--very hard to find--some people drive 3 or 4 hours to get one. I don't think I will do that what with limited time and not even knowing if I would like it. . .

If you're okay with the price and the looks(the Chinook is easy on the eyes), disliking a BK is not likely, especially if you're already used to a cat stove and have dry wood. What's not to like about 20-hour burns? Seems like anyone who gets a BK thinks it's the perfect stove. They have exploded in popularity in the past few years, at least on this site, and seem to be gaining momentum in the east. . .hard to believe there's not a dealer around Boston. As the season winds down, things are a lil' slow around here. Try sending a message(Inbox -->Start Conversation) to BKVP.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/members/bkvp.18988/

 

[Woody Stover]

What's not to like about 20-hour burns? Seems like anyone who gets a BK thinks it's the perfect stove.

What about the black glass? Are the Chinook/Sirocco any better in this regard? The Fv glass is clear no matter how low I burn it...

 

[Highbeam]

Parts of the glass may be dark or black but the majority of the glass is easily clean enough to see the "fire". That's the real issue, there's very little fire to watch.

20 hours is nothing, the regular sized stoves from BK are rated for 30 hours.

 

[ddddddden]

What about the black glass? Are the Chinook/Sirocco any better in this regard?

To provide a given heat output, a smaller stove is going to burn hotter than a larger stove would, so I'd imagine that the smaller BK's may sport a cleaner firebox/glass, but I don't think we know yet. . .

The Fv glass is clear no matter how low I burn it...

My Fv stays pretty clean too, but that's not surprising since I burn with enough air for nice secondary flames. (House is not the tightest, so it's nearly impossible to overheat this place with the Fv. . .if it's too warm in here, it's because it's 60°+ outside, and I don't need to be burning anyhow.)

20 hours is nothing, the regular sized stoves from BK are rated for 30 hours.

The Princess is probably too big for OP's install. I was talking about the 2-cu-ft Chinook/Sirocco, rated for "up to 20 hours," which I feel pretty comfortable saying about the 2-cu-ft Fv too, BTW.
16, 18, 20-hour reloads are pretty standard for me at this time of year. . .basically a very big, very pretty ash bucket at some point, but always hot coals. It will be interesting too see how the new 2-cu-ft BK's compare to the similarly sized Woodstocks.

 

[Highbeam]

The woodstocks have a double pane glass too right? That ought to reduce the blackening.

 

[ddddddden]

The woodstocks have a double pane glass too right? That ought to reduce the blackening.

Yes, at least the Fv does. Good point. I've never really thought about the reason for the double pane. I think the cleanliness of the glass also has to do with the air intake / combustion pattern. The Fv tends to get a lot of secondary burn action near the glass, from the airwash. Even if you choke it down for a cat-only burn, it will erupt into flame an hour or so later. . .and keep burning like this for a few hours. My personal style of burning is to encourage secondary flames from the beginning, and I find that the Fv does very well as a "hybrid" heater.

 

[ddddddden]

I think Evilgriff is the only owner of a smaller BK here, so far.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/first-thoughts-on-my-new-bk-sirocco.92546/

Only doing shoulder burns here, kindling and 2-3 small splits so far. I really like this stove. It takes more time to warm up than my Intrepid II, guess that was to be expected. Cat engaged at the lower end of the scale on the thermometer with not any visible smoke outside-this was with coals and one split- 3 small splits after hot coals gave me usable heat 7hr later at low setting. Glass gets a little dirty on left and right lower corners (could be operator error). Fans and convection deck would be good for bigger house than mine-they are installed but first impressions are that I am not ever going to use the fan. I don't have as much wood as I like this year, have a connection to get some more- the ability of this stove to go low go slow looks like it will work for me.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/those-of-you-with-blaze-kings.95218/

Been running my BK Sirocco for about 4hrs now, with 5 3" splits in it. It has been on low heat setting for about 2hrs. I have the convection deck installed with fans, never use the fans at all. Current stovetop temp center just in front of convection deck is 418 degrees. 312 degrees on front lip of stove. Cat thermometer is in active range, just slightly left of center. Sq foot of leaky house is 1000. 41 degrees outside, 83 degrees inside in room with stove. 80.4 degrees in kids bedroom ( has remote thermometer as the kid's bedroom temperature is the target temp). In my small house, this stove is barely breathing, I believe it will be running at low temp most of it's life. It's cut my labor for wood in half already compared to my old Intrepid II. Not as pretty or ornate, but works extremely well. Wife never needs to touch it, I have 8 more hours at least before I will need to do anything to it.

 

[dyerkutn]

I think Evilgriff is the only owner of a smaller BK here, so far.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/first-thoughts-on-my-new-bk-sirocco.92546/



https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/those-of-you-with-blaze-kings.95218/

thanks--I checked these out--every bit of information is helpful

 

[dyerkutn]

If you're okay with the price and the looks(the Chinook is easy on the eyes), disliking a BK is not likely, especially if you're already used to a cat stove and have dry wood. What's not to like about 20-hour burns? Seems like anyone who gets a BK thinks it's the perfect stove. They have exploded in popularity in the past few years, at least on this site, and seem to be gaining momentum in the east. . .hard to believe there's not a dealer around Boston. As the season winds down, things are a lil' slow around here. Try sending a message(Inbox -->Start Conversation) to BKVP.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/members/bkvp.18988/

go him by e-mail and he sent me the local dealer

 

[_CY_]

what's the max burntime for buck 91 cat?

 

[ddddddden]

what's the max burntime for buck 91 cat?

For a more thorough survey of 91 owners, maybe start a new thread with your question as the title. . .

I think you will like it....I like mine.
One think I would like is it to have a little more height in the firebox.
I get 12 to 14 hrs on a packed load.
Enjoy

David

. . .Now on my 2nd buck 91. Moved. Left the first one.

Ran 14 hours on a small load. Curing the paint. I have a 24 foot chimney. Draws like champ. I expected 4 hours with the tiny amount of fuel. Loaded at 6 and ran till 8 am this morning. Coals and stove at 450-500.
Buck's a good stove and realistic in it's specs. Very happy with my second catalytic.

 

[rideau]

I think just about any cat stove except the BKs, which are designed to smoulder, burns with a clean window. The double paned Woodstock's add a layer of insulation which helps the airwash to accomplish burns with very clean glass. Only area that generally benefits from cleaning is right behind the andirons. They seem to prevent the window from getting the full benefit if the airwash for cleaning. The glass there is easy to clean when cool, with a light scrubbing with #0000 steel wool, scotchbrite green nylon pad, or wet newspaper/ash.

 

[begreen]

Some stoves keep the glass cleaner than others. It's more a function of the effectiveness of the air wash system and how the stove is run than whether it has a cat or not. I have seen black glass on the big Bucks and Appalachians too.