Heat Output: cat vs. non-cat

[raybonz]

My Endeavor was 2.2 and I could relight after 10-12 hour with no issue but useful heat was long gone at that point even if the blower was still running. If you get bored sometime take a stove top temp reading at reload. I'd be curious to know what the temp was 12 hours in.

The cast iron stores lots of heat and dissipates heat for a long time. At 4AM I am anything but bored lol so that's not gonna happen. My house is warm and the stove is up and running in 15 minutes with no fussing and is much easier than my CDW cat stove in the AM I can say that! The coldest my house has been was the morning after the blizzard the stove was down to coals and the house was 58 degrees but it was 6 degrees and windy out and we had no power other than that one time the house is around 75 degrees. Soapstone stoves are also good in the mass department and give good results for this reason too..

Ray

 

[rdust]

At 4AM I am anything but bored lol so that's not gonna happen.

Ray

12 hour loads means twice a day loading, check it when you load at 4pm.

 

[raybonz]

12 hour loads means twice a day loading, check it when you load at 4pm.

Generally I crank the air around this time to reduce the coal bed then full load around 6PM-7PM..If it's very cold we run it hotter and this affects the coal bed too..

Ray

 

[raybonz]

Rdust in milder weather I run smaller hotter loads this is where cat stoves are easier to run.. My wife loads the stove when it's cold and I am late or we just need more heat.. She doesn't care what any t-stat says she just closes the air to 1/8th and walks away lol.. The secondaries still get going and this to me is a good thing as she has no interest an anything other than being warm and no playing with the stove or looking at thermometers.. This created issues with the cat stalling on the CDW and creosote issues. No regrets buying the T5 here

Ray

 

[ddddddden]

That article is way too technical for me. . .

You could ignore most of the numbers and just read the narrative, but the point I wanted you to take away from the article is that the EPA does not allow anyone to make a non-cat stove with air that can be "closed" like the air on your cat stove can be. If a dealer tells you otherwise, they are trying to BS you.

http://www.gulland.ca/florida_bungalow_syndrome.htm
. . .The stove must burn the wood, meaning the fire does not go out, and it must not smoulder too much, even when the air control is turned as low as it will go, or the stove will fail the test. To meet the low-burn part of the test, the stove designer must build in a fixed minimum air supply opening. In other words, a sizeable combustion air leak. . .

Besides the Woodstocks and Majestics, what other good cat stoves are on the market (Blaze King is out of the question--no dealers anywhere near me)

Here's a roundup of the usual suspects(from another thread. . .I reckon I'd now add the Lopi Cape Cod to the list.)

. . .All of the Buck 91 comments that I can recall have been positive. You could do worse than a big catalytic stove, IMO. OTOH, there are a lot of nice stoves in the $2500 range, which is what I think a new Buck 91 runs. One stove I would have on my list is the Blaze King Princess insert. It's only 2.8 cu ft vs. 4+ cu ft for the Buck, but you may not need 4+ cu ft. In that case, there's also the 2.6-cu-ft Buck 80. One thing to consider, in addition to firebox size, is flue size. The jumbo stoves require an 8" flue, which will cost more than a 6" and may be more difficult to install. Here are some other big cat stoves, most available as inserts:

http://kumastoves.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=15

(broken link removed to http://www.americanenergysystems.com/model-bbf.cfm)

(broken link removed to http://www.highvalleystoves.com/stove2500.php)

(broken link removed to http://www.countryhearthllc.com/catalog_3.html)

(broken link removed to http://www.buckstove.com/wood/model91.html)

 

[dyerkutn]

You could ignore most of the numbers and just read the narrative, but the point I wanted you to take away from the article is just that the EPA does not allow anyone to make a non-cat stove with air that can be "closed" like the air on your cat stove can be. If a dealer tells you otherwise, they are trying to BS you.






Here's a roundup of the usual suspects(from another thread):

Sorry for the confusion but I am in MA, not VA, and I need something much smaller. maybe a little over 2.0 so the list of usual suspects won't work! But thanks anyway. I will restate the question more clearly. Besides the Majestic and the Woodstock are there any good cat stoves that I could get in my area that are small to medium. Does the cat/no cat dilemma make less difference with a small stove than a large one..

 

[ddddddden]

Sorry for the confusion but I am in MA, not VA, and I need something much smaller. maybe a little over 2.0 so the list of usual suspects won't work! But thanks anyway. I will restate the question more clearly. Besides the Majestic and the Woodstock are there any good cat stoves that I could get in my area that are small to medium. . .

Yes, in that thread, we were talking about large stoves, but that list covers most of the manufacturers of cat stoves.

~2-cu-ft cat stoves:
Woodstock
Buck
BK

Does the cat/no cat dilemma make less difference with a small stove than a large one?

That's a good question. Offhand, I'd say yeah, because not being able to close the air becomes more of an issue as the size of the load of wood increases. . .there are no 4-cu-ft non-cats. OTOH, it's generally easier to get longer burn times with a bigger stove than with a smaller stove. . .

How 'bout this article:

(broken link removed to http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/hoebt.htm)

The problem with maintaining secondary combustion in big fireboxes:When a BIG load reaches Stage 2, the "minimum" airflow required for secondary combustion can be substantial. Providing enough airflow to meet EPA low-emissions standards during Stage 2 of the burn presents a major engineering challenge to designers of size-large wood stoves. The most popular solution seems to be the incorporation of a "stop" in the design of the draft control, so it can't be closed down below a certain point. While this method might get a stove through EPA testing, there's a big downside: with no "low" draft control setting available, an abundance of combustion air is delivered to the fire even when it isn't needed, causing faster than necessary fuel consumption during the other stages of the fire. This results in frustrated owners of size-large stoves who find they can't "hold" the fire as long as they might want to between refuelings. . .

 

[rideau]

Hey, folks. A heads up. I think dyerkutn needs a stove with only ember protection requirement, as I think his floor is ceramic, and he has a very limited space for the stove, which is in a traffic area. I have no idea which stoves those would be. Can anyone help? He is going to need a stove that allows pretty close clearances too, I think.
He may also prefer to go with a steel stove, because of support issues.

 

[raybonz]

Hey, folks. A heads up. I think dyerkutn needs a stove with only ember protection requirement, as I think his floor is ceramic, and he has a very limited space for the stove, which is in a traffic area. I have no idea which stoves those would be. Can anyone help? He is going to need a stove that allows pretty close clearances too, I think.
He may also prefer to go with a steel stove, because of support issues.

I compiled this list a while back but it is not complete of ember protection only stoves:

All Pacific Energy Alderlea stoves
All Pacific Energy models
Lopi Endeavor
Lopi Revere
Blaze King Chinook
Blaze King Princess
Hampton H200 (unsure, manual gives conflicting information)
Regency CS1200
Jotul F100
Jotul Oslo 500
Jotul Rangely
Jotul F55 I think too..

Ray

 

[dyerkutn]

I compiled this list a while back but it is not complete of ember protection only stoves:

All Pacific Energy Alderlea stoves
All Pacific Energy models
Lopi Endeavor
Lopi Revere
Blaze King Chinook
Blaze King Princess
Hampton H200 (unsure, manual gives conflicting information)
Regency CS1200
Jotul F100
Jotul Oslo 500
Jotul Rangely
Jotul F55 I think too..

Ray

This is absolutely fantastic. THe best possible info I could get. THe only one I already knew of was the Jotul 400 Castine which is not your list. Thanks so much. I have been looking at the Jotel, Lopi, and PE. By the way, I never mentioned this but I am a "she". I was happy to see that there are other females that post here. Hallelulah I can finally start narrowing my search. The only glitch would be if the state requires me to have the hearth pad for the trade out program. I will e-mail them to find out.

 

[ddddddden]

Oh yeah, the infamous other thread. . .

If you think this is good, wait til you post up pics, measurements, floorplan, and the hearth.com collective supercomputer goes to work on your install analysis.

Well, how 'bout we do this ^^^ ?

Maybe get a bit more specific than this. . .

. . .Right now my new big issue is realizing I need a hearth pad for most stoves--this could be a major problem as my space is quite tight--not too tight for rear and side clearance if the pad were not needed but definitely tight for a large raised area.

Otherwise. . .I dunno, of the stoves Ray listed, I like the T5.

 

[raybonz]

This is absolutely fantastic. THe best possible info I could get. THe only one I already knew of was the Jotul 400 Castine which is not your list. Thanks so much. I have been looking at the Jotel, Lopi, and PE. By the way, I never mentioned this but I am a "she". I was happy to see that there are other females that post here. Hallelulah I can finally start narrowing my search. The only glitch would be if the state requires me to have the hearth pad for the trade out program. I will e-mail them to find out.

Glad it helped but many of these are not cat stoves. I run a T5 here in Mass. with 1632 sq. ft. and it heats my home very well. Stoves that have stiff hearth requirements are a pet peeve of mine and why I started compiling this partial list..

Ray

 

[raybonz]

This is absolutely fantastic. THe best possible info I could get. THe only one I already knew of was the Jotul 400 Castine which is not your list. Thanks so much. I have been looking at the Jotel, Lopi, and PE. By the way, I never mentioned this but I am a "she". I was happy to see that there are other females that post here. Hallelulah I can finally start narrowing my search. The only glitch would be if the state requires me to have the hearth pad for the trade out program. I will e-mail them to find out.

I don't think a hearth pad would have anything to do with a rebate especially if your floor is already ember protected and this is all the stove manufacturer requires..

Ray

 

[ddddddden]

I don't think a hearth pad would have anything to do with a rebate especially if your floor is already ember protected and this is all the stove manufacturer requires..

Ray

+1
I don't see why the state would want to get into that, other than requiring that your install be inspected and approved by your local county, city, etc.

 

[jeff_t]

The PE Super Series (broken link removed to http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/pacific.htm). They are all the same firebox with a different look. I think it would be my first choice for a non-cat.

I have an older one in the garage, waiting for installation in another house. I have only burned one fire in it, outside, so I am not qualified to talk it up

 

[raybonz]

The PE Super Series (broken link removed to http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/pacific.htm). They are all the same firebox with a different look. I think it would be my first choice for a non-cat.

Yes I believe the stoves on that link all use the same firebox..

 

[rdust]

Yes, in that thread, we were talking about large stoves, but that list covers most of the manufacturers of cat stoves.

~2-cu-ft cat stoves:
Woodstock
Buck
BK

BK Sirocco 20 and Chinook 20 are just a touch under 2 cubic feet and only require ember protection.

 

[ddddddden]

BK Sirocco 20 and Chinook 20 are just a touch under 2 cubic feet and only require ember protection.

(Blaze King is out of the question--no dealers anywhere near me.)

That's why I crossed BK off of the list.
Hard to believe that there are no BK dealers in the Boston area though. Maybe she's going by the dysfunctional dealer locator on the BK website. . .

 

[raybonz]

BK Sirocco 20 and Chinook 20 are just a touch under 2 cubic feet and only require ember protection.

Added them to my list..

 

[dyerkutn]

Glad it helped but many of these are not cat stoves. I run a T5 here in Mass. with 1632 sq. ft. and it heats my home very well. Stoves that have stiff hearth requirements are a pet peeve of mine and why I started compiling this partial list..

Ray

Yes, sadly after all my research I may have to end up with non-cat due to the hearth issue.

 

[raybonz]

Yes, sadly after all my research I may have to end up with non-cat due to the hearth issue.

I ran a cat stove for 25 years and now the T5 on it's 2nd year and have been happy with it.. Not sure why you feel a secondary burn stove is a bad thing..

Ray

 

[dyerkutn]

That's why I crossed BK off of the list.
Hard to believe that there are no BK dealers in the Boston area though. Maybe she's going by the dysfunctional dealer locator on the BK website. . .

That's why I crossed BK off of the list.
Hard to believe that there are no BK dealers in the Boston area though. Maybe she's going by the dysfunctional dealer locator on the BK website. . .

oops--messed up on the posting--yes I did go by the website--any other ideas of how to locate them.

 

[jeff_t]

Maybe she's going by the dysfunctional dealer locator on the BK website. . .

Yeah, that's a pretty useless feature....

I found a couple of others by accident. Most that I called on that list that were near me were equally useless.

 

[ddddddden]

oops--messed up on the posting--yes I did go by the website--any other ideas of how to locate them.

Edit the title of your other thread: "Need a BK dealer in Boston Area."


One detail that will help to narrow down the list of stoves:

Do you want/need a top-venting or rear-venting stove?

 

[dyerkutn]

One detail that will help to narrow it down:

Do you want/need a top-venting or rear-venting stove?

my pipe goes straight up 20 feet from the stove directly through the roof. The details that you suggested I send---I have a 480 square foot open space which with vaulted ceilings at a variety of heights ranging from 9 1/2 to 20 feet. This area includes an 8 x 8 living room which includes the location of the stove but does not include the area that is filled with a large L shaped sofa. It includes a half flight to the entrance area as well as the entrance area, and also my kitchen with eating area. The kitchen cabinets are well below the ceiling and there is open space above them making that area continuous with the rest of the open space. Beyond that whole area is a 180ish square foot room in which I have a large dining table. That room is long. Beyond that is one small bedroom and the door to the finished basement. The other bedrooms are off a little hallway around the bend from the stream of warm air. So I want to heat the open area, the long dining room and the small bedroom. If I can direct air to the other bedrooms with a fan--so much the better. THo the SF is small, because of the height of the ceilings I figure it is equivalent to about 1100 SF of a normal 8' ceiling. I am about the put in a ceiling fan between the living room and kitchen/eating area but closer to the LR and about 6 (linear by the floor) feet in front of the stove.