Heat Output: cat vs. non-cat

[rideau]

Be Green, Poiint taken. My statement was a generalization. However, in the main, it is correct.

 

[4barrel]

My fireplace is to short height wise and too shallow depth wise. I bought this Olympic because it was the only model that would fit in the fireplace. I wanted to buy a Pacific energy but they would not fit. I don't even know if a fireplace can be reworked like this, that is be made taller and deeper.Any masoners out there? I would like to go with a freestanding stove this time.

 

[Hickorynut]

4barrell, I feel your pain. I am getting the same poor results with my lopi freedom. Maximum of three to four hour burn times with a load of quality wood. I think they let too much air into the stove with the damper closed plus I do have a strong draft. Also, I get dirty glass almost after every burn cycle. Setting the alarm once, more often twice getting up to reload sucks big time. I say dump the lopi and don't look back.

 

[weatherguy]

Can you just extend the hearth and put a freestander in front of the fireplace? Also, where do you live? Climate may play a patrt in what stove is best for you. I would personally go with a hybrid for my next stove but I do love my Princess.

 

[Hogwildz]

4barrell, I feel your pain. I am getting the same poor results with my lopi freedom. Maximum of three to four hour burn times with a load of quality wood. I think they let too much air into the stove with the damper closed plus I do have a strong draft. Also, I get dirty glass almost after every burn cycle. Setting the alarm once, more often twice getting up to reload sucks big time. I say dump the lopi and don't look back.

Dirty glass may indicate burning too low of tamps and not dry enough wood.
If we all only got some dollars for everyone that is so certain their wood is quality, when it really is not.
Setting off alarms is truly not good, and downright dangerous.

 

[Bret Chase]

I have a Avalon Olympic right now, house is about 1600 sq ft. with no wall insulation( hope to take care of that soon). This stove works good, lots of heat, great convection system, but I cannot get more than a four hour burn. Checked for leaks and all. The short burn times are becoming irratating. I use hardwood, seasoned one and a half to two year dried.

I have a smoke dragon... and I get 6 hours out of my free Better 'N Bens... if I load that sumb**ch up.... unless it's -15F out... I just blast myself out of the house...

 

[mellow]

Go freestanding with a rear vent exit, plenty of them out there to choose from.

 

[4barrel]

Hickorynut, you know what i am talking about. The stove works good don't get me wrong, lots of heat, great convection system, but the burn times are driving me crazy. I think you're about the air inlet, it blows air directly over the wood. I read somewhere on this site that Pacific energy stoves curculate air around the firebox instead. Sounds like a better way of doing it. Any bricklayers out there, is it possible to increase the size of a existing fireplace.

 

[4barrel]

Weatherguy, I wish I could. The main problem I have is the depth of the fireplace is to shallow, only about 14 inches.I live in MA like you.

 

[Highbeam]

Any bricklayers out there, is it possible to increase the size of a existing fireplace.

Of course it is possible. Is it worth the cost? I removed the masonry fireplace and chimney in my home to install a regular freestanding stove and vertical flue. Any work on a fireplace is polishing a turd.

 

[rideau]

Weatherguy, I wish I could. The main problem I have is the depth of the fireplace is to shallow, only about 14 inches.I live in MA like you.

Do you have an old home? Is that a Rumford fireplace?

 

[rideau]

Dirty glass may indicate burning too low of tamps and not dry enough wood.
If we all only got some dollars for everyone that is so certain their wood is quality, when it really is not.
Setting off alarms is truly not good, and downright dangerous.

He's setting the alarm to wake up and reload.....

 

[jeff_t]

Of course it is possible. Is it worth the cost? I removed the masonry fireplace and chimney in my home to install a regular freestanding stove and vertical flue. Any work on a fireplace is polishing a turd.

I did the same thing. Shoulda done it years ago.

 

[begreen]

Same here. It was a two day, dirty process, but I am glad I did it. In earthquake country old masonry chimneys are a liability.

 

[dyerkutn]

A non-cat stove doesn't put out more heat. If the stoves are equally sized the output will be nearly the same. The difference comes when the air is turned down to low. The cat stoves will cruise low and slow, non-cat stoves are hard to slow down once they get cruising and. The Super27 is a good stove with burn times of 8-12 hours. The BK is gonna give you consistent 18-24 hour burns.

Hopefully someone is still reading this thread. I am confused about cats being able to go low and slow and non-cats hard to slow down. The dealers I have visited have said that if you want to slow the fire down ( in a non-cat) you just put in less wood or close the air more. Is that not true? I currently have a very old cat stove and have been worrying that it would be hard to switch as I am know how to manage it pretty well,

 

[webby3650]

Sure you can always put in less wood, but you also wont get a long burn time. Cats allow you to stuff it full and also get that long burn time, something a non-cat simply can't do, in comparison.

 

[rideau]

A cat will burn the smoke and the volatile gases produced by combustion at a much lower temperature than a non cat, so it will produce heat cleanly at a low temperature. Non cat stoves cannot burn those gases until the stove is much hotter, so produce a dirty burn until they get to a high temperature, and the potential heat of the smoke and gases is lost up the chimney until they do reach a high temperature. They burn wood getting to the high temperature, and burn wood faster at the higher temperature. The cat stoves can cruise along with little or no no flame emanating from the wood while they burn the smoke and gases, producing significant heat. The wood is very slowly consumed while they do this, because there is very little oxygen in the fire box. A non-cat simply cannot do that. It will smoulder and create creosote and not heat, if you try to do it. You can adjust heat output of a non cat, just like you can of a cat, by load size and split size, but you canot adjust air down as you can in a cat, so simply cannot produce as slow burnign a fire as you can in a cat and still produce meaningful heat, or produce heat cleanly. Cats are inherently more efficient than non cats. If you are used to using a cat, I cannot see any reason you would consider switching to a non-cat stove.

 

[ddddddden]

. . .I am confused about cats being able to go low and slow and non-cats hard to slow down. The dealers I have visited have said that if you want to slow the fire down (in a non-cat) you just put in less wood or close the air more. Is that not true?

It's a matter of degree, but if the dealers are leading you to believe that you can close down a non-cat like your cat stove, that is not true. Below a certain point, you can't "close the air more" on a non-cat stove, if not for technical reasons, then because the EPA says you can't.

http://www.gulland.ca/florida_bungalow_syndrome.htm

 

[raybonz]

Hogwildz, believe me I have tried it all, north south,east west. big splits small splits, you name it, the results are always the same. What I meant originally was I always thought that while cats burned longer, they don't put out as much heat as a non cat. Anyway. for all you Pacific energy owners, how long of a burn are you getting from you're super 27 and summit with useful heat say 350 degrees and over.

I have a PE Alderlea T-5 with the exact same firebox and I get 10-12 hr. burns all the time.. I only expected and sought to get 8 hr. burns so I was pleasantly surprised with the longer burns. I live in SE Mass. and heat about the same size home as you.

Ray

 

[dyerkutn]

It's a matter of degree, but if the dealers are leading you to believe that you can close down a non-cat like your cat stove, that is not true. Below a certain point, you can't "close the air more" on a non-cat stove, if not for technical reasons, then because the EPA says you can't.

http://www.gulland.ca/florida_bungalow_syndrome.htm

That article is way too technical for me. Besides the Woodstocks and Majestics, what other good cat stoves are on the market (Blaze King is out of the questions--no dealers anywhere near me)

 

[Locust Post]

That article is way too technical for me. Besides the Woodstocks and Majestics, what other good cat stoves are on the market (Blaze King is out of the questions--no dealers anywhere near me)

I just purchased a Buck 91 cat have yet to find any bad reviews on them ....might look to see if any dealers in your area.

 

[rdust]

Hogwildz, believe me I have tried it all, north south,east west. big splits small splits, you name it, the results are always the same. What I meant originally was I always thought that while cats burned longer, they don't put out as much heat as a non cat. Anyway. for all you Pacific energy owners, how long of a burn are you getting from you're super 27 and summit with useful heat say 350 degrees and over.

I have a PE Alderlea T-5 with the exact same firebox and I get 10-12 hr. burns all the time.. I only expected and sought to get 8 hr. burns so I was pleasantly surprised with the longer burns. I live in SE Mass. and heat about the same size home as you.

Ray

You're getting burn times in the 10-12 hour range with a stove top of 350+ 12 hour in? That's pretty good!

 

[dyerkutn]

I just purchased a Buck 91 cat have yet to find any bad reviews on them ....might look to see if any dealers in your area.

Another brand!! They seem to be unending. According to the Buck website the dealer around here is a place I was planning on visiting Thurs--not too far from me.

 

[raybonz]

You're getting burn times in the 10-12 hour range with a stove top of 350+ 12 hour in? That's pretty good!

Honestly I don't look at stovetop temp what I get is a warm stove with blower still running and plenty of coals for relight.. This stove is rated over 80% efficient and the burn times agree with this. I consider this good for any 2 cu. ft. stove..

Ray

 

[rdust]

Honestly I don't look at stovetop temp what I get is a warm stove with blower still running and plenty of coals for relight.. This stove is rated over 80% efficient and the burn times agree with this. I consider this good for any 2 cu. ft. stove..

Ray

My Endeavor was 2.2 and I could relight after 10-12 hour with no issue but useful heat was long gone at that point even if the blower was still running. If you get bored sometime take a stove top temp reading at reload. I'd be curious to know what the temp was 12 hours in.