Garn 1000 opinions

[mike van]

Thanks for the responding. How much area are you heating? I assume you are following the water testing program. Any signs of corrosion?

About 3200 sf, one room really sucks the heat out as the circulator for it never shuts off. I had a rust issue early on between the clean out & the actual use water. This is just my opinion, and i'm not a chemist, but that 'clean out' process was a waste of time & money. A person can get inside one of these units and wipe & clean everything by hand. I had to with the slimy rust that formed. The clean out did nothing to stop that, actually made it worse [time between draining & refill] Just mt 2 cents. I'm rust free now, and happy with the Garn. What it replaced [moving wood into the basement, a chimney so plugged with creosote, smoke that would fill the valley here] I threw the chimney brush in the scrap metal bin. I don't know why one unit has leaks at the welds, there are many hundreds of Garns out there with no problems. Many OWB's have failed for leaks, even some stainless tank ones.

 

[Bad LP]

I went through this with Bird shingles from the '80s - Many split after just a few years. Their warranty process was so BS that I didn't bother, just threw them out and moved on. I never miss the opportunity to talk trash about them. My revenge I guess.

Yup. I’ll trash them at every chance. A 30 year rated roof at the age of 16 gets an on site formed standing seam this season.

 

[kenny]

I currently have a Garn 2000. Bought in June 2009. Got it up and running Nov 2009. Had a leak two years ago and spend three grand to get back up and running. Two years later I have another leak I am currently dealing with in a different location. I hope we will be able to repair it this time as I spent thirty grand in 2009 on the boiler and install. Have you looked at Switzer's boilers?

hedge wood,
I am retired but I was an independent sales rep for Garn for many years and I can tell you with first hand experience if you have a leak issue with a Garn you have a water chemistry or an electrolysis problem. There is no such thing as a corrosion proof boiler. It require treatment no matter what brand it is or it is going to eventually leak. Garn boilers are all double pass welded and air tested before they leave the factory. Garn has a long standing relationship with a premier test lab and chemical supply company and they keep records of testing and chemical usage for all of Garn customers who choose follow the recommended chemical maintenance program so I would advise you to contact the sales rep who sold you the Garn and he can work with you and the test lab to determine what is wrong and get you back to where you need to be for the longevity that Garn is famous for. Fortunately Garn provides a manway access that makes repairs possible and easy but you need to get your water problem sorted out first.

 

[PA Mountain Man]

I currently have a Garn 2000. Bought in June 2009. Got it up and running Nov 2009. Had a leak two years ago and spend three grand to get back up and running. Two years later I have another leak I am currently dealing with in a different location. I hope we will be able to repair it this time as I spent thirty grand in 2009 on the boiler and install. Have you looked at Switzer's boilers?

hedge wood, I finally got thru to Garn on the phone and the representative who has been there for 12 years was able to answer all my questions and concerns. I specifically asked them about warranty of the welds and corrosion. He has never had a claim for the tank steel, welds or coatings in 12 years. We did talk about your post here on Hearth and the owner Martin Lunde would really like to speak with you.
They have units from as far back as 1985 that are still in operation. Water quality and testing is how they keep units from corroding.

 

[PA Mountain Man]

Keep in mind the switzer boiler isn’t ul approved or been emissions tested / compliant, not eligible for a tax credit.

I have not spoken with Switzer yet but I did speak with Garn. They have to do the new testing for EPA's latest requirement. My understanding is they have to redo the same test and get particulate readings after the first hour of operation and EPA has not told Garn what it takes to pass.
Also there seems to be some questions/ issues regarding the IRS and the tax rebate.

 

[PA Mountain Man]

You obviously never dealt with a major issue with a company thus my mention of IKO shingles. I know for a fact there was a class action suit well after my roof failed. They offered me 400 bucks and 4 squares.
In this Garn case somebody made a serious commitment to their product. Warranty or not if welds are failing. That’s not acceptable.

See my earlier post

 

[maple1]

hedge wood,
I am retired but I was an independent sales rep for Garn for many years and I can tell you with first hand experience if you have a leak issue with a Garn you have a water chemistry or an electrolysis problem. There is no such thing as a corrosion proof boiler. It require treatment no matter what brand it is or it is going to eventually leak. Garn boilers are all double pass welded and air tested before they leave the factory. Garn has a long standing relationship with a premier test lab and chemical supply company and they keep records of testing and chemical usage for all of Garn customers who choose follow the recommended chemical maintenance program so I would advise you to contact the sales rep who sold you the Garn and he can work with you and the test lab to determine what is wrong and get you back to where you need to be for the longevity that Garn is famous for. Fortunately Garn provides a manway access that makes repairs possible and easy but you need to get your water problem sorted out first.

But is rust/chemistry/electrolysis a factor with broken welds?

 

[PA Mountain Man]

But is rust/chemistry/electrolysis a factor with broken welds?

When I spoke with Garn rep he explained that all steel is "double pass welded" which I took to mean welded from both sides as he described it. They have a stringent quality control program in place for the preparation and welding process. The rep I talked to has been there for 12 years and has not seen a problem with leaking at the welds. After welding is complete each unit is air tested, but not at high pressure since the Garn is not a boiler. I don't know the situation with hedge wood's weld leaks. I hope he contacts Garn.
My understanding of the steel used and from experience, the weld area will be the first to corrode regardless of the cause. But I could be wrong on this.
Newer Garn's have a coating on the bottom of the tank where sludge builds up over time.
40% of the water sources sent in by new customers are rejected due to water chemistry and the customer has to find an alternate water source.

 

[Bad LP]

When I spoke with Garn rep he explained that all steel is "double pass welded" which I took to mean welded from both sides as he described it. They have a stringent quality control program in place for the preparation and welding process. The rep I talked to has been there for 12 years and has not seen a problem with leaking at the welds. After welding is complete each unit is air tested, but not at high pressure since the Garn is not a boiler. I don't know the situation with hedge wood's weld leaks. I hope he contacts Garn.
My understanding of the steel used and from experience, the weld area will be the first to corrode regardless of the cause. But I could be wrong on this.
Newer Garn's have a coating on the bottom of the tank where sludge builds up over time.
40% of the water sources sent in by new customers are rejected due to water chemistry and the customer has to find an alternate water source.

Well if water is that important maybe they should sell them with water.

 

[SpaceBus]

I have read about people filling closed system hydronic systems with distilled or other non tap water source.

 

[Bad LP]

I have read about people filling closed system hydronic systems with distilled or other non tap water source.

Well water and conditioner in mine. No water testing needed. Looked for sediment at the start of this season and the water was clear.

 

[jas702]

I have a Garn 2000 heating my 1800 sq ft home. It also keeps my 1000sf shop warm from the Garn being located inside. I used to burn 4 cords and 450 gal of oil with an older Catalytic insert in my masonry fireplace. Then around 900 gal of just oil one winter (new baby/no more wood mess allowed in living room where insert was located.) My unit was built in 2009, I picked it up in 2018, installed last march (2020). After one full year I am very happy with it. I burn once a day, unless it gets down to single digits for a week then its more like 9-10 burns over the course of 7 days. I burned around 5 cords of wood. some of it was split small, leftover from my insert burning days.

I have outdoor reset, I dont heat DHW (very small part of my heat load and requires very high water temps. ) My house has baseboard, and I use a Tekmar 356 to vary the speed of the Garn Circulator depending on outdoor temp and heat demand. My whole system is open. I have a magnetic filter inside and the add on filter on the Garn itself. I've had ZERO issues with corrosion. My unit is isolated from electrolosis per the newest Garn manual. The chemicals are expensive but are the only way to protect from corrosion. I had my well water tested, bought all the pre clean and treatment chemicals, followed all the instructions, ran for a month then had water tested again. I had to add more chemicals because of the volume of water my system holds (unit itself, underground lines and all the baseboard loops inside house. ) It was a lot of work installing, figuring out the wiring, etc, but now its just lighting a fire every day. If i am away or forget to burn, it automatically shuts off the garn pump and my oil system runs like it used to (cold start).

 

[E Yoder]

I have not spoken with Switzer yet but I did speak with Garn. They have to do the new testing for EPA's latest requirement. My understanding is they have to redo the same test and get particulate readings after the first hour of operation and EPA has not told Garn what it takes to pass.
Also there seems to be some questions/ issues regarding the IRS and the tax rebate.

The testing requirements have been a sore spot for more than one. Along with practically zero enforcement.

 

[salecker]

Well water and conditioner in mine. No water testing needed. Looked for sediment at the start of this season and the water was clear.

Sounds like me...
check the bottom taps on my storage see if there is any sediment from sitting over the summer.
10 years there has been nothing but crystal clear water,
Then light up

 

[S.Whiplash]

Well water and conditioner in mine. No water testing needed. Looked for sediment at the start of this season and the water was clear.

This is a naive statement and should not be promoted as such, all water is not created equal, there are thousands of different mineral components that can be found in well water and some are very corrosive when brought into contact with boiler steel, it's a very complex subject. Sounds like you got lucky, many are not so fortunate and struggle to find suitable fill water within their geographic area, water good enough to drink might not make it good enough for a boiler.

I would hazard a guess if you went back and looked through your manual it would recommend yearly monitoring of the PH level of the boiler water, as boiler conditioner breaks down over time and is only effective for aprox. 3-4 years before needing replacement. One of the main reasons outdoor wood boilers often rot out around 10 years is because they are open systems and very few owners pay any attention to their water chemistry. Ignorance does not always equate to bliss.

 

[Bad LP]

This is a naive statement and should not be promoted as such, all water is not created equal, there are thousands of different mineral components that can be found in well water and some are very corrosive when brought into contact with boiler steel, it's a very complex subject. Sounds like you got lucky, many are not so fortunate and struggle to find suitable fill water within their geographic area, water good enough to drink might not make it good enough for a boiler.

I would hazard a guess if you went back and looked through your manual it would recommend yearly monitoring of the PH level of the boiler water, as boiler conditioner breaks down over time and is only effective for aprox. 3-4 years before needing replacement. One of the main reasons outdoor wood boilers often rot out around 10 years is because they are open systems and very few owners pay any attention to their water chemistry. Ignorance does not always equate to bliss.

Take a seat.
I would never, ever own an open system and water testing is only one small portion of that thought process.