What to do now.

[sloeffle]

No guarantee's on the market...
Just like a Garn, you think your good but then it lets you down.
It would suck to be buying propane in your old age relying on the stock market to keep you warm.
One crash and you are in a cold home with no income to heat it
Oil prices spike again, tough luck married to propane.

Agree on all aspects. Burning wood is definitely a hedge against the oil markets if you burn fuel oil or propane.

The first line of any prospectus you get generally says the whole spiel about future returns are not guaranteed etc etc. I'm in a Vanguard fund that has returned on average close to 10% every year since 1958 with an accumulative return of 116500.50%. Think that's a pretty good track record on what you might see in the future.

 

[hedge wood]

Agree on all aspects. Burning wood is definitely a hedge against the oil markets if you burn fuel oil or propane.

The first line of any prospectus you get generally says the whole spiel about future returns are not guaranteed etc etc. I'm in a Vanguard fund that has returned on average close to 10% every year since 1958 with an accumulative return of 116500.50%. Think that's a pretty good track record on what you might see in the future.

I have been with Vanguard and Fidelity since the early 80's. Both have done well for me. Since around 2000 have had a account with TD Ameritrade. I have like them also. Not for sure how I am going to like Schwab. Time will tell.

 

[hedge wood]

You may be able to recoup something from the Garn...
Be honest about it and advertise it.
I sell Ford's that are broke down or rolled all the time. I personally will not drive one, don't like anything about them. But there are Ford lovers who will buy a broke down or rolled Ford to fix up.
There is a Garn lover out there that would fix and use it.

Not a lot of wood burning in my area and very few boilers. I will advertise it a little but its probably headed to the scrap yard.

 

[JRHAWK9]

Agree on all aspects. Burning wood is definitely a hedge against the oil markets if you burn fuel oil or propane.

The first line of any prospectus you get generally says the whole spiel about future returns are not guaranteed etc etc. I'm in a Vanguard fund that has returned on average close to 10% every year since 1958 with an accumulative return of 116500.50%. Think that's a pretty good track record on what you might see in the future.

I also have my 401K in a Vanguard. I REALLY lucked out though, as I jumped all in on -THIS- one about 12 years ago or so and let it ride. Reason being was good performance AND a low expense ratio of 0.10% (vs 0.42% of the one you linked to). I didn't want my money going to fees once I got a fair amount of $$ in it. Over the past 10 years it has a accumulative return of 553.09%. If my calculation is right, that puts it at right around an average yearly return of 20.6% over those 10 years. Last year it earned 52.5%. This year it's up roughly only 18% so far, as it's been on sale over the past couple months after starting off very good. It's performance and it's very low fees is why I like it. it's a win-win.

I just noticed that my calc actually matched what they state. I didn't see that until I calc'd it out by using the accumulative return over 10 years. LOL

 

[hedge wood]

So today was the day. I get my temp header to hold half of the wall up in the Garn barn. Got the Garn slid out of the Garn barn with the skid loader. Loaded the Garn up on the deck over trailer with the JD tractor and loader. So lets talk boilers. I probably won't go with a Switzer the wait to have it built and freight would be a killer. I like his boilers. Looking hard at the Polar. Giving the Heat master a look. Have found some used Econoburn's. Found a couple older never used Econoburn units at a very good price. I know Salecker likes his Econoburn. Found a used welder, machine shop built Garn style. He heated his shop with it. Had a heart attack and quiet burning wood. Its twelve years old. I think I will pass on it. So what should I do?

 

[hobbyheater]

So today was the day. I get my temp header to hold half of the wall up in the Garn barn. Got the Garn slid out of the Garn barn with the skid loader. Loaded the Garn up on the deck over trailer with the JD tractor and loader. So lets talk boilers. I probably won't go with a Switzer the wait to have it built and freight would be a killer. I like his boilers. Looking hard at the Polar. Giving the Heat master a look. Have found some used Econoburn's. Found a couple older never used Econoburn units at a very good price. I know Salecker likes his Econoburn. Found a used welder, machine shop built Garn style. He heated his shop with it. Had a heart attack and quiet burning wood. Its twelve years old. I think I will pass on it. So what should I do?

I've been very impressed with my 450 ,four years in very easy to clean.

(broken link removed)

 

[sloeffle]

Reason being was good performance AND a low expense ratio of 0.10% (vs 0.42% of the one you linked to). I didn't want my money going to fees once I got a fair amount of $$ in it.

That's the difference between a managed fund vs an index fund. I have some $$$ in an S&P 500 index fund and the fees are very low since it's a index fund.

I'm a fan of not going all in on one fund. Eventually the market is going to cool down, and folks that aren't diversified are going to get hit the hardest. My small caps haven't done crap since they raised rates and now they are starting to take off since there are talks of lowering interest rates.

 

[sloeffle]

So today was the day. I get my temp header to hold half of the wall up in the Garn barn. Got the Garn slid out of the Garn barn with the skid loader. Loaded the Garn up on the deck over trailer with the JD tractor and loader. So lets talk boilers. I probably won't go with a Switzer the wait to have it built and freight would be a killer. I like his boilers. Looking hard at the Polar. Giving the Heat master a look. Have found some used Econoburn's. Found a couple older never used Econoburn units at a very good price. I know Salecker likes his Econoburn. Found a used welder, machine shop built Garn style. He heated his shop with it. Had a heart attack and quiet burning wood. Its twelve years old. I think I will pass on it. So what should I do?

The only knock I have on my Heatmaster is the amount of smoke that rolls out door sometimes. Yes, I'm probably not burning the wood all the way down to coals but they should have a better design to deal with that. Something to be aware of if it's going to go in a building.

 

[JRHAWK9]

That's the difference between a managed fund vs an index fund. I have some $$$ in an S&P 500 index fund and the fees are very low since it's a index fund.

I'm a fan of not going all in on one fund. Eventually the market is going to cool down, and folks that aren't diversified are going to get hit the hardest. My small caps haven't done crap since they raised rates and now they are starting to take off since there are talks of lowering interest rates.

yeah, I agree. Nobody would ever recommend someone do what I have done. LOL What's that saying....no risk-it no biscuit. LOL Sure, they may nose dive when the market cools down, but I like to see that, as then I am buying on sale and when they come back up just as fast is where I see some nice gains. I also have a Fidelity account that mimics the S&P as well. They have an expense ratio of 0.015% IIRC. The S&P has been out-performing a lot of managed funds.

At this point in my savings, I don't want to put my money in anything that has over a 0.10% expense ratio. I don't want others making money on my money when I see better gains without their "management". I don't want to pay more for worse performance.

 

[stoveliker]

yeah, I agree. Nobody would ever recommend someone do what I have done. LOL What's that saying....no risk-it no biscuit. LOL Sure, they may nose dive when the market cools down, but I like to see that, as then I am buying on sale and when they come back up just as fast is where I see some nice gains. I also have a Fidelity account that mimics the S&P as well. They have an expense ratio of 0.015% IIRC. The S&P has been out-performing a lot of managed funds.

At this point in my savings, I don't want to put my money in anything that has over a 0.10% expense ratio. I don't want others making money on my money when I see better gains without their "management". I don't want to pay more for worse performance.

Index funds often outperform managed funds when the market indices are going up...
It's when indices go down that managed funds are supposed to do less bad.

 

[JRHAWK9]

Index funds often outperform managed funds when the market indices are going up...
It's when indices go down that managed funds are supposed to do less bad.

yep, which is great when you are not putting money in, like when in retirement.

When you are actively contributing though, I want to put money in when things are down, that way I can take advantage of when they aggressively come back up. The volatile nature is what really helps grow money, when contributing. Without the aggressive downs, there are no "fire sales" to take advantage of.

 

[Der Fuirmeister]

Hedge Wood I've been burning in a Garn 1500 and Wood Gun SS140 since 2008. Both are great. The Garn for my shop and Wood Gun for the house. The Wood Gun is a great indoor unit that I made a welded SS pipe for exhaust (that solved earlier leaking pipe issues). I have the Garn installed inside a 20' ISO shipping container stuffed full of insulation, which works well for storage. I've often wondered what I'd do if the Garn went belly up. Since I have a 400 gal SS storage tank available I think I'd get another Wood Gun, but the smaller 100,000 btu model and install it inside the ISO container with the 400gal tank. All the piping is already in place. The last cost I saw on the smaller Wood Gun was $8000. I'm in my 60's and good health. Processing wood should help me stay in shape.
The other thing I am doing is installing solar panels to heat the water storage tank directly. That storage provides solar heat at night. And if I leave town for extended trips in winter I no longer need to worry about my Garn freezing...

 

[hedge wood]

The only knock I have on my Heatmaster is the amount of smoke that rolls out door sometimes. Yes, I'm probably not burning the wood all the way down to coals but they should have a better design to deal with that. Something to be aware of if it's going to go in a building.

Smoke out the door would be a problem. Its going to be in a building in a building. I would like to stay away from that as much as possible.

 

[hedge wood]

I've been very impressed with my 450 ,four years in very easy to clean.

(broken link removed)

I did run across the Vedolux on Smokeless heat but it looked like there getting out of them. Only the 650 left. I did put a call into them but never heard back.

 

[salecker]

Smoke out the door would be a problem. Its going to be in a building in a building. I would like to stay away from that as much as possible.

My Econoburn does have smoke rollout at times. I added a flap against the roof of the upper chamber to help.I have a building that houses my heating system so the smoke rollout isn't a big concern.
I have cleaning down, but i think that seeing i only have spruce to burn that i probably have to clean more than those of you who get to burn hardwood.

 

[hedge wood]

My Econoburn does have smoke rollout at times. I added a flap against the roof of the upper chamber to help.I have a building that houses my heating system so the smoke rollout isn't a big concern.
I have cleaning down, but i think that seeing i only have spruce to burn that i probably have to clean more than those of you who get to burn hardwood.

So my question is would you buy a Econoburn again? There seems to be some deals out there on the EBW-200 models a couple NOS ones and a few lightly used models.

 

[hobbyheater]

I did run across the Vedolux on Smokeless heat but it looked like there getting out of them. Only the 650 left. I did put a call into them but never heard back.

Thought that with their getting out, a good price could be had!
When I bought mine, I got spare everything; complete refractory, blower, o2 sensor etc ,and I am now thinking about a spare mother board!

 

[hedge wood]

Thought that with their getting out, a good price could be had!
When I bought mine, I got spare everything; complete refractory, blower, o2 sensor etc ,and I am now thinking about a spare mother bo ard!

The Vedolux looks like a well built boiler but I sure would worry about parts in the long term.

 

[brenndatomu]

The only knock I have on my Heatmaster is the amount of smoke that rolls out door sometimes. Yes, I'm probably not burning the wood all the way down to coals but they should have a better design to deal with that. Something to be aware of if it's going to go in a building.

Surprised to hear that...do you open the bypass and wait 15-20 seconds before opening the door fully?
I don't think thats been much of an issue on dads G10...but it is outside, and they do have it placed with the door opening toward prevailing wind, so...

 

[sloeffle]

Surprised to hear that...do you open the bypass and wait 15-20 seconds before opening the door fully?
I don't think thats been much of an issue on dads G10...but it is outside, and they do have it placed with the door opening toward prevailing wind, so...

Yep or you have to or will have a big fireball coming for your eye lashes. Like I said, if you can time it right you get very little smoke out of it. I seem to always be a little ahead or I need to get wood in it before I got to bed or leave. I need to get a "vent hood" built for mine. The fan at the top of my barn can't keep up.

 

[Wisco Shepherd]

We can have a reasonable conversation about alternatives to burning wood and I welcome it. I haven't wrote that big check yet and may or may not. That is why I am looking at the used market. I am not totally sure I want to make another big investment in wood burning. If I go totally back to propane I would need to buy a propane tank for my shop as I haven't used my propane furnace since 2005 sold the tank to a buddy that needed one. Would need to install a propane boiler or hot water heater to run my floor heat as the Garn has been the only thing ever hooked to in floor heat. I did run propane in the house during both times when I had the leaks in the Garn. I do like to wear my Kubota hat to the John Deere dealer also. LOL.

As a note, I have a in floor heat system as well (It can heat my house but the Kuma does that so mine is mostly used by the garage). But the boiler is a wall mounted tankless heater system which was remarkably small and didn't cost too much. Could shoot you some photos if you like.

 

[brenndatomu]

I need to get a "vent hood" built for mine

I'll get a pic to send you...I may have what you need.
I thought I was gonna need one when I was still running the Yukon furnace, it would smoke when the HX needed cleaned (again!) but the VF100 has solved that issue, so I doubt I'll need this hood now...its SS too!

 

[salecker]

So my question is would you buy a Econoburn again? There seems to be some deals out there on the EBW-200 models a couple NOS ones and a few lightly used models.

If i had to buy a boiler today, yes i would buy another Econoburn
As i have a dedicated building for the heating system some smoke rollout hasn't been an issue for me.
There are things that people have done to deal with it like a smoke hood and fan.
I had to run mine off an extension cord for a couple weeks or so when the original control board died.As i live in the sticks, no repair people around or parts.So having the ability to keep using it while i waited for parts was appreciated.
The boiler was designed for hardwood, which is the heart of any issues i have.Cleaning is more frequent i believe. Spruce puts out more BTU's quicker than hardwood but doesn't last as long, so i have been tweaking the turbulators like @cumminstinkerer showed which improved my stack temps.
I am going to try an buy an Econoburn 300 that is sitting plugged right up in town here. It was used like the old central boiler it replaced and wet green wood was feed to it. The last time i saw it running they had the upper door cracked and bypass open.
There has been a couple Econoburn's that have sprung leaks on here, and i don't think the cause has been identified. But it looked like erosion from the inside the water jacket. Each time i clean mine i take a hammer to the spots that leaked on others and mine seems sound.
I have an open mind and come on here pretty much everyday to keep up with progress. When time comes to replace my house boiler there may be other options and i want to know about them.
@hobbyheater has a lot of praise for his new system.
Bottom line for me is i live in the sticks, and i am my own repair person. The Econoburn has been a tank for me,no issues that i couldn't deal with. If i can feel the same about a computerized boiler it could be an option.
@cumminstinkerer has high praise for his G3 ? so i am watching his experiences as well.
I am building a new shop and my original Econoburn may go there as i try something new at home, but that will not be for a few years. So far i am watching, and may end up with 2 Econoburns

 

[cumminstinkerer]

@salecker mine is actually a G2+ and my parents have a G3, both have been really good units, I had some issues with my parents gunking the air feed tubes up with slimy creosote early this spring, replaced door gaskets and that didn't help, finally decided it was leaking fresh air between the intake "manifolds" and the boiler passages, tore into it and found the gaskets there had failed, I replaced them and added high temp silicone as well, and ground a little off the rear plate where the manifold passes by it to get the manifold to set a little flatter, cleaned stuff up and had no more issues. I talked with Bryan, that owns Polar, after that about the issue, the newer boilers now have a different gasket and silicone so the issue should be resolved. I helped install one for a gentleman NW a couple hours and he has had no issues once he learned to load it full once or twice a day rather than trying to feed it like wood stove. He did have one other issue but it was not boiler related, newer ECM blower furnaces are a massive pain to get the blower to come on in high and stay there, even using just the green wire!

 

[hedge wood]

Time for a update. Harvest is finally over. Seems like it been a very long fall. Deals on two different new boilers fell threw. Finally got some much needed rain to get a break. Filled the 500 gallon propane tank at the house and bought another thousand gallon of propane. Today I blew all the water lines and heat exchangers on water side of where the Garn was and pumped RV antifreeze into those lines and heat exchangers. Guess I am not ready to pull the trigger on a new boiler. We will see how this winter goes with propane and keep looking at boilers. I think Econoburn is out when I talked to Dale it seemed like a deer in the headlights. Wood gun didn't seem to be a good fit. Still looking at Heat Master and Polar or maybe a Portage and Maine conventional . Have talked with Gary at Switzer and he's booked until spring. I guess I am just in a bad mood about this wood thing . Maybe by spring or summer I feel different. Keep the ideas coming.