Fire Chief FC1500 install

[JRHAWK9]

of course it doesn't sound right. Was the furnace advertised with 3 hour burn times? This should answer your question right there.

Not quite sure why you are continuing to let that furnace blow it's load right away. Take the foot off the accelerator already and install a BD. Have you even installed the manometer yet, or even temporarily checked your draft with it?? You are not going to have any different outcomes by doing nothing. This furnace is NOT being operated correctly.

 

[brenndatomu]

It sounds right other than your burn times are way too short...and too intense! But that is typical of a firebox operated with a high chimney draft.
Unless your house has really poor insulation, you should be able to load 2 to 3 times per day...that's 24 hrs

 

[Mrpelletburner]

of course it doesn't sound right. Was the furnace advertised with 3 hour burn times? This should answer your question right there.

Not quite sure why you are continuing to let that furnace blow it's load right away. Take the foot off the accelerator already and install a BD. Have you even installed the manometer yet, or even temporarily checked your draft with it?? You are not going to have any different outcomes by doing nothing. This furnace is NOT being operated correctly.

Yes, manometer has been installed and connected. My schedule has been tight and single digit temps at the moment, oil heat is not going to cut it. You kind of get used to the warm temps from the stove.

 

[brenndatomu]

Yes, manometer has been installed and connected. My schedule has been tight and single digit temps at the moment, oil heat is not going to cut it. You kind of get used to the warm temps from the stove.

Yeah, when the house in in the 80's, I bet that does take some getting used to!
So what kind of readings you seeing on the manometer? -0.10 and over I'm betting

 

[JRHAWK9]

So what kind of readings you seeing on the manometer?

Was just going to ask the same thing. back when it was warmer he said it was pulling -0.13". Curious as to what it's pulling when it's in the single digits outside.

 

[Mrpelletburner]

Was just going to ask the same thing. back when it was warmer he said it was pulling -0.13". Curious as to what it's pulling when it's in the single digits outside.

When reloading the firebox the stove pulls between .08-.1 in w.c.

When the firebox is nice and hot the stove pulls between 0.14 to 0.18.

When the stove is on the down side of max burn 0.12 to 0.15.

 

[maple1]

About 3x what it should be.

 

[brenndatomu]

When reloading the firebox the stove pulls between .08-.1 in w.c.

When the firebox is nice and hot the stove pulls between 0.14 to 0.18.

When the stove is on the down side of max burn 0.12 to 0.15.

One minor correction, you say "the stove pulls"...it's actually the chimney pulling on the stove...remember, the chimney is the engine that drives the stove...and you sir have a supercharged big block in your Chevy cavalier!!
I'm not even sure 1 baro is going to be enough to bring that draft down to usable numbers...you may need 2...or a combination of a baro and a manual damper both...don't laugh, I've heard of it before!

 

[brenndatomu]

Your chimney height is what's driving these insane draft numbers...is it a masonry chimney? If it was a class A metal chimney I was gonna say maybe there's a small chance you could take a section or two off and still meet the 10/3/2 rule...

 

[laynes69]

I'd almost bet the burn times would double or triple and the swings in temperature in the home would be gone. Those are crazy draft speeds!

 

[maple1]

One minor correction, you say "the stove pulls"...it's actually the chimney pulling on the stove...remember, the chimney is the engine that drives the stove...and you sir have a supercharged big block in your Chevy cavalier!!
I'm not even sure 1 baro is going to be enough to bring that draft down to usable numbers...you may need 2...or a combination of a baro and a manual damper both...don't laugh, I've heard of it before!

I think one baro should do it. I only have one on my 30'. If it is held shut, the chimney can spike to 0.2-0.3 when it's windy. But otherwise it holds it pretty even. I am happy with 0.1 in my boiler though. But the bare-bottom line is that at least one baro is absolutely needed, no matter what Mr. HYC guy on the other end of the phone is saying - the last few posts & warped door video are obvious evidence of what happens when he is listened to.

And a further thought that just occurred - unless you have recorded all those phone conversations, I think I would stick to the manual anyway. Which lists chimney draft specs and suggests a damper to get those specs without saying no baro. And even lists too much draft as the number one fire hazard, many times. What you have said they tell you on the phone, is to disregard the manual and do the opposite. Which, thinking in terms of a court room setting (sometimes you have to think of being there even if that is the last place you would be), would leave you high & dry if it ever got there - you've been doing contrary to what the manual says. The phone calls are he said/he said stuff. Unless you recorded them. Well.

I don't know how these guys are in business still....

 

[brenndatomu]

But the bare-bottom line is that at least one baro is absolutely needed, no matter what Mr. HYC guy on the other end of the phone is saying - the last few posts & warped door video are obvious evidence of what happens when he is listened to.

Yes, a well designed and built stove should last 20-30 years...and probably never warp a door...even that cheap TSC wood furnace stuff doesn't have that issue...but even the best built wood furnace would not last with those kind of draft numbers!
Yukon, has/had a strict requirement of no more than -0.03" WC, and a 30 year warranty...Kuuma specs -0.04 to -0.06" WC and a 25 year warranty...but gonna go broke with those kind of warranties if you don't control the draft!

But I agree, use the written info contained in the manual...and the info contained in the EPA test...if it was tested at -0.04 to 0.06", then run it that way!

 

[JMihevic]

. . . Yukon, has/had a strict requirement of no more than -0.03" WC, and a 30 year warranty...Kuuma specs -0.04 to -0.06" WC and a 25 year warranty...but gonna go broke with those kind of warranties if you don't control the draft. . .

I am learning a lot from this thread.

It seems that the amount of chimney draft is very critical. Is this a requirement for a gasifier type boiler? I have an old style Tarm MB55. It seems like the only requirement from the manual is an adequate draft—-a minimum chimney height of 20 Ft. They don't mention anything about too much draft. My chimney is 27 ft. I only have a "paddle" damper in the pipe between the boiler and chimney. The main air control is the air flap on the bottom of the ash cleaning door. This is controlled by a mechanical Samson draft regulator that maintains boiler temperature. Does this type system not have an upper limit on the chimney draft since it is a very simple air tight design which just keeps a fire going in the "big barn". Just curious.

John M.

 

[brenndatomu]

I am learning a lot from this thread.

It seems that the amount of chimney draft is very critical. Is this a requirement for a gasifier type boiler? I have an old style Tarm MB55. It seems like the only requirement from the manual is an adequate draft—-a minimum chimney height of 20 Ft. They don't mention anything about too much draft. My chimney is 27 ft. I only have a "paddle" damper in the pipe between the boiler and chimney. The main air control is the air flap on the bottom of the ash cleaning door. This is controlled by a mechanical Samson draft regulator that maintains boiler temperature. Does this type system not have an upper limit on the chimney draft since it is a very simple air tight design which just keeps a fire going in the "big barn". Just curious.

John M.

Hi John, yeah I don't have as much back ground in the boiler side of things, but I'm sure limiting the draft speed to a certain level would do nothing but extend your burn times, efficiency, and overall life of the boiler. I looked at some of those Tarms years ago...and I'm almost sure I remember seeing barometric dampers on some of them. A manual damper like yours could work too, bit IMO you really need a permanently mounted manometer to measure the draft for consistent results with setting the damper.
The only thing bad about a manual damper is if your unit is able to open and close a draft damper on the firebox automatically, then that could cause trouble if you had your manual damper closed too far...the effective draft on the firebox would drop too low and you could have smoke back into the house...a baro eliminates this issue because it self adjusts to allow for changes in the firebox, gusts of wind, etc.
All solid fuel fired appliances can be overfired if is draft too high...doesn't matter the brand/style, they are all made of some type of metal, and metal can only take so much heat. Some units have insulated fireboxes, but even those can be damaged with too high draft if the fire is drawn outside of the firebox or burn chamber...anywhere other than where it was meant to be.

And as I said, draft affects efficiency, for several reasons, but one of the main reasons is time for the flue gasses to transfer heat to the furnace/boiler. Think of it like a hot potato...if you hold it for a split second you may not get burnt...hold onto it for longer, the more the heat transfers, the worse your burn is. Same for flue gasses in your heater, the more time they have to contact the surfaces of the heater, the more heat to your house potentially.
The higher your draft level, (sometimes referred to as draft speed) the faster the flue gasses are being pulled through the heat exchange area of the furnace/boiler.
Boy, that ended up way too long!
Maybe @maple1 has some additional boiler applicable insight here...

 

[maple1]

I am learning a lot from this thread.

It seems that the amount of chimney draft is very critical. Is this a requirement for a gasifier type boiler? I have an old style Tarm MB55. It seems like the only requirement from the manual is an adequate draft—-a minimum chimney height of 20 Ft. They don't mention anything about too much draft. My chimney is 27 ft. I only have a "paddle" damper in the pipe between the boiler and chimney. The main air control is the air flap on the bottom of the ash cleaning door. This is controlled by a mechanical Samson draft regulator that maintains boiler temperature. Does this type system not have an upper limit on the chimney draft since it is a very simple air tight design which just keeps a fire going in the "big barn". Just curious.

John M.

Yes, draft is important.

I'm not really familiar with an MB55, but looking at a brochure Google found me, I don't think that is a true gasifier? It mentions 'secondary burn', but it is also completely water jacketed with no separation of burn chambers, or refractory. Might have done good for its times, but I would guess not near as good as newer ones.

I have a natural draft 'modern' gasifier. As far as I know from the searching I did when I was planning things 6-7 years ago, it is the only one being produced on the planet. That I could find. Draft is very important for it. It specs minimum 0.08". Which usually needs a pretty high chimney. That much is needed to ensure proper amount and speed of combustion air being moved through the combustion chambers to get it to burn like it is supposed to. And it is the only thing doing it - mine has absolutely no air control on the intake, It is wide open, 100% of the time. Simplicity at its max. Which means chimney draft needs to be in specs all the time.

Too much air will still do the gasification, even more extremely, but will also raise your stack temps too much and pull a lot more heat out the chimney before the heat exchangers can grab it along with also maybe moving the gases through too fast for them all to combust. Other gasifiers don't rely so much on chimney draft, because they use forced draft or induced draft fans to move air through. But they still want to limit max chimney draft as they would also suffer from the same increased pipe temps and reduced heat transfer if the chimney was adding more throughput.

Even with a boiler such as yours, I would still want to add a barometric damper, I think - a manual one might do, if you are around to adjust it for varying conditions. In the right (wrong) conditions, gusty winds can spike drafts & possibly pull fire up into the pipe & light off creosote build up. They could also even maybe pull your manual damper closed. I have seen both happen.

EDIT: That was major off topic - sorry, won't happen again...

 

[JMihevic]

Thanks for your replies brenndatomu and maple1. My MB55 is not a gasifier. It is basically just a firebox surrounded by 55 gallons of water. At the rear of the boiler there is a baffle surrounded by water to extract more heat out of the flue gases before they go up the chimney. I will look into getting a barometric damper. It seems the safest way to go.

John M.

 

[maple1]

With a chimney that tall, you may have too much draft at times, yes. But you also might be controlling it adequately with the manual damper too.

I would likely get a manometer so you can know exactly what your draft is, before installing a barometric damper. Baros can also bring issues with units that don't burn fairly clean. Not unmanageable ones, but could sneak up on a person if not aware. (Creosote buildup...). My old boiler had both. The baro opened up with wind gusts - otherwise the key damper was the main one I used. The baro also helped prevent the wind from moving the manual one around. And gave me a quick easy access to the inside of the pipe for inspection & cleaning. It was also the first place creosote would build.

 

[S.latulip]

Have you had to replace the fan limit switch? The distribution blower would not kick on, firebox 650 degrees, without push/pull the auto/manual switch.

No but my blower fan was disconnected in the control box. Same issue but easy fix. Did pop open limit switch cover. Off 100 on 150 off 200

 

[Mrpelletburner]

No but my blower fan was disconnected in the control box. Same issue but easy fix. Did pop open limit switch cover. Off 100 on 150 off 200

@ S.latulip - wondering how my stove’s burn times compare to your experience. I am burning oak and filling the firebox past the flap.

Last night loaded for the night at about 11pm, loaded the box on top of a 1” bed of hot ambers. Then at 7:15 am today, the first floor was 75 degrees and the fire box still had a 2” bed of hot ambers (my guess is the 2” would of continued heating for another 1 to 2 hours).

So I would say 7 hours until down to hot ambers and another “maybe” 2 heating with just the hot ambers?

 

[S.latulip]

@ S.latulip - wondering how my stove’s burn times compare to your experience. I am burning oak and filling the firebox past the flap.

Last night loaded for the night at about 11pm, loaded the box on top of a 1” bed of hot ambers. Then at 7:15 am today, the first floor was 75 degrees and the fire box still had a 2” bed of hot ambers (my guess is the 2” would of continued heating for another 1 to 2 hours).

So I would say 7 hours until down to hot ambers and another “maybe” 2 heating with just the hot ambers?

View attachment 234526

View attachment 234527

About the same. Burning seasoned oak. Load with the bigger stuff at night and usually get about 8 hours. Found that keeping the wood packed tight and minimum air gaps also extends burn time along with pulling all coals to the front. Any time the inducer fan runs it blows through wood. No where near the burn time stated but not complaining.

 

[maple1]

@ S.latulip - wondering how my stove’s burn times compare to your experience. I am burning oak and filling the firebox past the flap.

Last night loaded for the night at about 11pm, loaded the box on top of a 1” bed of hot ambers. Then at 7:15 am today, the first floor was 75 degrees and the fire box still had a 2” bed of hot ambers (my guess is the 2” would of continued heating for another 1 to 2 hours).

So I would say 7 hours until down to hot ambers and another “maybe” 2 heating with just the hot ambers?

View attachment 234526

View attachment 234527

Did you get your barometric damper in yet?

 

[Mrpelletburner]

OMFG... Overnight temps have been in the high teens/very low 20’s. Loading for the night at 11pm and by 4am the stove is completely out!

HY-C suggestion was to double check my loading i.e. small splits on the bottom and larger splits in on the top. Even following this method I can’t get anywhere close to the burn times advertised.

Only grip with this stove is the short burn times.

 

[Medic21]

OMFG... Overnight temps have been in the high teens/very low 20’s. Loading for the night at 11pm and by 4am the stove is completely out!

HY-C suggestion was to double check my loading i.e. small splits on the bottom and larger splits in on the top. Even following this method I can’t get anywhere close to the burn times advertised.

Only grip with this stove is the short burn times.

What kind of wood are you burning?

 

[Mrpelletburner]

prob 98% oak and it is debarked

 

[Medic21]

prob 98% oak and it is debarked

Wow, is the wood punky or anything?

Have you tried mixing wood? I almost always throw some ash in with the oak. Gets things good and hot fast then let’s the oak burn all night. I loaded at 7pm last night and it was still putting out heat at 7am this morning with a low of 30 last night. I’m using elm today as it’s 45, cloudy, and rainy out. I get five hours out of this.