EV developments

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begreen said:
Nor elsewhere
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I guess we will see Q2 numbers eventually. I don’t see this as a huge deal. The growth means the service/sales centers just don’t have space even for cars they are repairing. If the lots of full of mostly model 3s then yeah those are are going to be sitting for a while. You can always check the Tesla inline inventory. It might not be showing all available cars for purchase but in the past they used it to track supply. Last week it showed 51 model 3 and 23 Ys at my nearest SS.
 
Yes, Ford has a really big backlog too, GM not too much, at least not at our dealer. There was only one used Bolt there when I went in a few weeks ago.
 
Tesla apparently has battery life issues

www.yahoo.com

Tesla Vehicle Batteries Degrade Under 65 Percent Of EPA Range After Only Three Years

A recent study found that Tesla vehicle batteries degrade at a faster rate than the manufacturer’s warranty assures. Recurrent discovered that the range plummeted to 64 percent of the EPA-rated range after three years after combing data from 12,198 Tesla Model 3 and Model Y vehicles. While the...
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com
 
peakbagger said:
Tesla apparently has battery life issues

www.yahoo.com

Tesla Vehicle Batteries Degrade Under 65 Percent Of EPA Range After Only Three Years

A recent study found that Tesla vehicle batteries degrade at a faster rate than the manufacturer’s warranty assures. Recurrent discovered that the range plummeted to 64 percent of the EPA-rated range after three years after combing data from 12,198 Tesla Model 3 and Model Y vehicles. While the...
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com
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I think that is cherry-picking data. And… here is the quote “Tesla Real Range is a proprietary Recurrent value based on energy usage data in actual Teslas on the road”.

Case in point. I have 7.5 year old 100 kWh pack. I’m sitting at 83% rated range. Now I can get 240 miles out of a 100%-0 drive if it’s not hot or cold and I keep it under 65 mph. Now if you take an average highway drive coupled with degradation I have about 68% capacity.

Batteries are wearing fine. EPA ratings are not how they are being driven. We know that.

Now if you want to take into account non driving losses(so total energy consumed by the vehicle) I could easily see those numbers. But it’s not battery degradation.
 
I had read somewhere that the used EVs from Hertz have a much higher rate of problems. Including battery issues.
Likely the renting makes them having seen more complete battery drains and fast charges?

I had thought about getting something like that from Hertz but am opting not to based on that increased rate of problems.

I forgot where I read that but my memory didn't store that I doubted the veracity of the report...
 
EbS-P said:
Whoa!!! Shopping for a used EV. Now might be a good time.

Used 2023 Chevrolet Bolt EUV LT SUV For Sale in Charlotte, NC | 45439

Check out the 2023 Chevrolet Bolt EUV for sale in Charlotte, NC at Hertz Car Sales. Contact the dealership to learn more about stock number 45439 and schedule a test drive today!
www.hertzcarsales.com www.hertzcarsales.com
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And the residual on my 2022 Bolt EV lease is $21k... for Sept 2025. I guess leasing was the right move. ;lol

I don't think I'll be buying out the lease. And my mileage is running about 15% under the lease limit. :)
 
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woodgeek said:
And the residual on my 2022 Bolt EV lease is $21k... for Sept 2025. I guess leasing was the right move. ;lol

I don't think I'll be buying out the lease. And my mileage is running about 15% under the lease limit. :)
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Ufff thats some quite rapid depreciation.
stoveliker said:
I had read somewhere that the used EVs from Hertz have a much higher rate of problems. Including battery issues.
Likely the renting makes them having seen more complete battery drains and fast charges?

I had thought about getting something like that from Hertz but am opting not to based on that increased rate of problems.

I forgot where I read that but my memory didn't store that I doubted the veracity of the report...
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I quite happy with my xcare (Edmunds is the company) extended warranty. They cover batteries now but I passed on that coverage.
 
EbS-P said:
I quite happy with my xcare (Edmunds is the company) extended warranty. They cover batteries now but I passed on that coverage.
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If that report is true, warranty (insurance) will go up for ex-Hertz cars ...
 
stoveliker said:
If that report is true, warranty (insurance) will go up for ex-Hertz cars ...
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It would surprise me that they would set different prices depending who the previous owner was. But it’s definitely possible. At any rate it’s highlighting a design issue that probably should be addressed in future models. If I was a large national rental company I’d work with OEM to reduce stated range to preserve battery health. Say only allow the battery to go from 5-95% soc and have that reflected in the mileage displayed. Once they sell it it would revert to OEM specs.
 
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Locally I can get Tesla 3s, Volvo C40s, or Bolt EUV for $20k or less. Many with less than 20k miles.
 
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I was talking to someone with a Polestar recently. He had to wait a month for the dealer (160 miles away)to diagnose and replace a heater. We also talked about Fisker going belly up, lot so folks are going to have cars that are effectively junk very soon as at this point no one is planning to take them over.

No doubt in my mind that there will be other orphaned EV owners that tried and failed. Reportedly in China folks are just abandoning they on the streets when they stop working and buy another one.

Lot to be said for leasing although not sure what happens to lease when there is no dealer or company to turn it back to.
 
begreen said:
Locally I can get Tesla 3s, Volvo C40s, or Bolt EUV for $20k or less. Many with less than 20k miles.
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With the tax credit some of these are surely good deals.
peakbagger said:
I was talking to someone with a Polestar recently. He had to wait a month for the dealer (160 miles away)to diagnose and replace a heater. We also talked about Fisker going belly up, lot so folks are going to have cars that are effectively junk very soon as at this point no one is planning to take them over.

No doubt in my mind that there will be other orphaned EV owners that tried and failed. Reportedly in China folks are just abandoning they on the streets when they stop working and buy another one.

Lot to be said for leasing although not sure what happens to lease when there is no dealer or company to turn it back to.
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There surely will be some write offs and settlements when it comes to bankruptcy. I do feel bad for anyone with a Fiskars but they really didn’t do any research. I think there is enough value in the IP that Fisk area has a chance to bought out in a bankruptcy deal.
 
EbS-P said:
With the tax credit some of these are surely good deals.

There surely will be some write offs and settlements when it comes to bankruptcy. I do feel bad for anyone with a Fiskars but they really didn’t do any research. I think there is enough value in the IP that Fisk area has a chance to bought out in a bankruptcy deal.
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Wasn't there a failed attempt to woo Nissan recently? Maybe getting assets a dime on the dollar will sweeten the deal, but the reality is that the car is still in beta condition with rough spots to be worked out.
 
begreen said:
Wasn't there a failed attempt to woo Nissan recently? Maybe getting assets a dime on the dollar will sweeten the deal, but the reality is that the car is still in beta condition with rough spots to be worked out.
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they won’t be last to go under. How will Rivian make out? Odds are not in their favor.
 
Rivian at least has lower cost versions in the ready and has done some major cost cutting by not expanding. Lucid on the other hand...

techcrunch.com

Rivian's path to survival is now remarkably clear | TechCrunch

Rivian needs to sell its new revamped vehicles at a profit in order to sustain itself long enough to get to the cheaper mass market R2 SUV on the road.
techcrunch.com techcrunch.com
 
Pretty rare, they are reportedly hand built by GM. No doubt a major money loser but its the image that counts.
 
Look back at any technological leap, many companies jump in the fray, few survive. Look at the early age of the automotive era, Henry Ford had a couple of bankruptcy's before Ford. GM was formed out of many other firms. Fast forward to the PC era, remember Obsborne Compaq, Tandy and ACER?. Same with Solar panels, Arco, Solyndra, Evergreen, and Nanosolar. Its pretty standard capitalism. My guess is 10 years down the road several familiar auto companies will be memories.
 
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peakbagger said:
..... My guess is 10 years down the road several familiar auto companies will be memories.
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And I think it likely that more legacy companies will become brands/badges owned by other companies, like MG is currently a badge owned by SAIC and Volvo is a badge owned by Geely.
 
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EatenByLimestone said:
I saw a Hummer EV today. It’s an odd looking critter!
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We have one in town I saw regularly this spring. It’s got H2 hummer vibes but even the H2 will be outsold by the cyber truck in 12 months I’m guessing. The Hummer EV won’t ever be made in big numbers
 
woodgeek said:
And I think it likely that more legacy companies will become brands/badges owned by other companies, like MG is currently a badge owned by SAIC and Volvo is a badge owned by Geely.
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This process seems typical of the auto industry. Disrupters like Ford provided more reliable solutions at a lower cost. The ruggedness needed before there were paved roads gave way to closed cars, better brakes and lights as cars went faster. There are many cars brands like Mercer, Stanley, Baker, that didn't survive past the late 1920's. Many more were lost or consumed by larger companies with the great depression and WWII. Fiskers and Lucid are like the Grahams, Cords, and Auburns of their day. There will be more and more changes and adaptations as technology moves forward and cars communicate with each other.
 
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