England's Stove Works / Englander 32-NC strange behavior

[lebrunmn]

(if this is indeed the issue, then) this is this forum on its best!

I most heartily agree--but I'm left wondering what it says about what once was a great stove company...

 

[grog18b]

Grog, thanks for this info!

I see the metal lip you're referring to... it's at a 45° angle from the top of the stove, and comes out at least an inch or so from the actual firebox. I had a devil of a time--even with a flexible endoscope--trying to trace where the primary air comes into the stove. I never was able to find the path. If this is it, it would explain an awful lot about what I'm experiencing with this thing. The metal airwash lip on my stove doesn't quite touch the door frame, but it comes darn close. I'm guessing this is what they did when the eliminated the "doghouse" from the previous versions of the stove?

I don't suppose you could snap a pic or two of how the airwash lip on your stove looks now? So I can get an idea what I'm shooting for? Really appreciate your help!

-Mark

 

[grog18b]

View attachment 291233View attachment 291233View attachment 291233

Sorry about the three photos. First time posting pics here. Yes, sticking out an inch is way too far. As you can see from mine, it only comes out maybe 1/8 inch from the front of the stove face.

 

[grog18b]

Also, just so you guys know... I contacted the company and told them of the fix for the problem I had. I never got a response.

I guess I bent mine down further than I thought. I went a bit at a time so it was hard to judge exactly how far. I think if you took a wood yardstick or similar, and lay it across the front of the stove, you can use it for a guide to keep the lip straight. That and the wood yard sticks are about 1/8” thick.

 

[brenndatomu]

I'm guessing this is what they did when the eliminated the "doghouse" from the previous versions of the stove?

Most of the EPA (tube) stoves dump the primary air at the top of the door like that...

 

[Highbeam]

500 watts! Whoa! For that draft collar.

 

[lebrunmn]

500 watts! Whoa! For that draft collar.

The company says it draws 3.8A @ 120Vac, so according to the post-it note on my computer that I use to calculate these things:

3.8A x 120Vac = 456W

So, a bit less than 500W--but it's still like leaving your daughter's blow dryer in there 24 / 7.

I wanted to add that there's no real need to run the collar 24/7. If you turn it on 10 or 15 mins before you burn, it'll get your flue temp to 85°+ in very short order. In addition, it is thermostatically-controlled, so it shuts itself off, when you're burning and your flue temp is high. It's a delight to not have cold air coming down the chimney during these cold winter days.

 

[lebrunmn]

I studied the problem tracing the air flow.

Grog-

So I stuck my flexcam above that airwash lip, and it seems that the air comes from either side of that lip, from two rectangular passages that run down on either side of the door, at the front of the firebox. Couldn't manipulate the camera any further, but I assume those two rectangular passages make their way to the primary air intake in the back of the stove. Does that sound similar to what you found?

I'm very anxious to try this correction out, but I'm a bit hesitant to take a pipe wrench to my less-than-30-day old stove. Of course, at this point, the stove is pretty much worthless to me. I'm also getting a steel baffle plate for my old Fisher, that I plan to install later this week--just in case I end up giving this Englander an early retirement.

Cannot thank you enough for this latest insight--and everyone who has helped me on this forum. Very glad it exists!

 

[grog18b]

I answered you earlier but my posts need mod approval... if you try this, your stove will work great, and you won’t need further repairs or a replacement. If that lip is sticking out that far, I can guarantee that is your problem, and you can try your stove out tonight.

 

[brenndatomu]

I'm very anxious to try this correction out, but I'm a bit hesitant to take a pipe wrench to my less-than-30-day old stove.

A Cresent wrench may work better...leverage either way, but the smooth jaws can be adjust to the thickness of the metal easier, and will not mar things up as much...

 

[grog18b]

The pipe wrench I used didn't mar the surface at all. The steel bent easy, but if you are concerned, you could use a rag to cover the jaws or sandwich it between two large popsicle sticks against the jaws. I’m confident this will fix your problem, but you can always bend the steel back. That’s why I gave this fix a try, as I paid quite a bit for the stove, and, as it was, it was useless. I’ve used it the whole season so far. Let me know how it goes.

 

[lebrunmn]

The pipe wrench I used didn't mar the surface at all. The steel bent easy, but if you are concerned, you could use a rag to cover the jaws or sandwich it between two large popsicle sticks against the jaws. I’m confident this will fix your problem, but you can always bend the steel back. That’s why I gave this fix a try, as I paid quite a bit for the stove, and, as it was, it was useless. I’ve used it the whole season so far. Let me know how it goes.

Thanks very much! I'm going to give a try tomorrow, since I don't think the vice grips I have will do as good a job. With your pipe wrench idea (and yes, I'll most likely cover the jaws with some padding) at least I can put a length of pipe on it if I have any troubles bending the metal downward.

I will most certainly let you know how it goes--very anxious to try this out. This is the one time I wish I didn't live in the sticks!

 

[Highbeam]

Are you going to first verify that you need to bend the air wash plate?

My air wash plate in my nc30 melted and sagged in the middle which is very common since it’s quite thin. I bent it back with a big crescent wrench and a pair of channel lock pliers. You can’t really do it with a hammer. Too “boingy”.

 

[lebrunmn]

Are you going to first verify that you need to bend the air wash plate?

My air wash plate in my nc30 melted and sagged in the middle which is very common since it’s quite thin. I bent it back with a big crescent wrench and a pair of channel lock pliers. You can’t really do it with a hammer. Too “boingy”.

I'm going to try it as soon as I can get a large enough Stillie at the hardware store--hopefully tomorrow. My crescent wrench wouldn't do the job--needs more leverage. I didn't find my air wash plate to be too thin--course I'm getting up there in years--maybe I'll get a length pipe to go along with the wrench, just for added leverage.

I've pretty much run out of options--the tech folks at the company gave me all the same suggestions that I've already received and tried. I'm out of options. I'm going to get this Englander running or remove & replace it with my newly-repaired Fisher. My son is really hoping that he can get the Fisher in his cabin--he's currently running on electric baseboard heat only.

 

[grog18b]

Are you going to first verify that you need to bend the air wash plate?

My air wash plate in my nc30 melted and sagged in the middle which is very common since it’s quite thin. I bent it back with a big crescent wrench and a pair of channel lock pliers. You can’t really do it with a hammer. Too “boingy”.

The 32 is not like the 30. The plate we are talking about is not thin.

You are welcome. The entire reason I joined this forum was for this thread. I saw someone having the exact same problem I had with my 32. Both my stove and flue are brand new and built to specs. My wood is properly seasoned and dry. Before I bent that ledge out of the way, my stove would not work at all with the door closed and latched. I added an external air source in an attempt to get mine to work. It did not help at all. It was obvious there was something wrong with the path of the main air supply. After bending this ledge out of the way, my stove works perfectly.

 

[lebrunmn]

The 32 is not like the 30. The plate we are talking about is not thin.

You ain't kiddin'.

I didn't realize that this thread was the reason that you joined--that's pretty awesome. I promise to let you know how I make out.

 

[Highbeam]

The 32 is not like the 30. The plate we are talking about is not thin.

You are welcome. The entire reason I joined this forum was for this thread. I saw someone having the exact same problem I had with my 32. Both my stove and flue are brand new and built to specs. My wood is properly seasoned and dry. Before I bent that ledge out of the way, my stove would not work at all with the door closed and latched. I added an external air source in an attempt to get mine to work. It did not help at all. It was obvious there was something wrong with the path of the main air supply. After bending this ledge out of the way, my stove works perfectly.

Good news if they thickened that plate. The rest of the nc30 is quite stout. I’ve seen many air wash plates melted and sagged.

 

[rwhite]

Why do I feel like I am being taken on a very dramatic ride?

 

[grog18b]

 

[grog18b]

View attachment 291278

Middle of the night, stove temp 525. The air wash plate on mine is the same thickness as the steel on top of the stove.

Apologize for the drama, just trying to help a dude out. I also searched the net trying to get this stove working, so I know the frustration level.

 

[kennyp2339]

Why do I feel like I am being taken on a very dramatic ride?

No cable tv?

 

[rwhite]

Middle of the night, stove temp 525. The air wash plate on mine is the same thickness as the steel on top of the stove.

Apologize for the drama, just trying to help a dude out. I also searched the net trying to get this stove working, so I know the frustration level.

Sorry, just a little humor. No cable TV😀 Great post and I hope it works out and you get it going.

 

[lebrunmn]

OK, looks like we have a wood stove, here...

This is the firebox with three, very small splits--just above kindling size--and it's been burning with the door completely closed for over 30 mins! It may not look like much, but it's the first time the stove has burned for more than 5 mins with the door closed.

Thanks to @grog18b for his air wash bending tip--I think we're onto something!

 

[grog18b]

I’m glad I was able to help you get it going. Plus, help anyone else that has this problem with the 32. G

 

[Enplater]

Just wondering, could you just use a cut-off wheel or plasma cutter instead of bending it? Or does it actually need bending to correct the path of air?