It takes me about 20-30 minutes to get to cruising. Have you ordered a manometer yet? It will greatly assist you to get the proper settings. I get about an inch of buildup on the sides where the primary air doesn’t really hit but gets burned off with the next fire so I don’t worry about it. My flue temps and STT have been about even or within 50-100 degrees of each other
Englander 32 Modification
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Pardon my rambles...
No. I keep going back and forth about it. With the house on the market and hopefully moving soon(ish?) I don't know that I really want another thing mounted on the wall with tubes and cords for someone to monitor. Already have a lot of people who have looked at the house and don't like the whole wood burning/electric baseboards deal even with a 3+ year wood supply included with the sale. Realtor says there's a good chance new owners might decide to rip it all out and put in a propane furnace and ductwork (which would be stupid and expensive, but people are stupid and lazy...).
I've started slowing the takeoff sooner so my flue temperature isn't quickly jumping 5-7 degrees at a time. Aiming for 2-3 degrees or so at a time with a slight pause between. When it starts going more & faster I close the damper more.
I'm currently playing with different air & damper settings, comparing flue & stt temperatures and flames, outside weather and making notes. My best (smallest) temperature difference is with the damper at 10% open. At 15% open the temperature difference is 120-130 degrees (blower on high). Under 10% on the damper and it just doesn't want to run. Last nights load ran there with the air 1/4 open. This mornings load is running there at 3/8 open right now, but I'm almost 3 hours in on a full ash load so it's starting to wind down the secondaries phase. Seeing as it's sunny, not real windy, and I got close to 2 gallons of ash out yesterday I might try to burn down coals and just run full hardwood loads without any shoulder season loads in between. We have a warm-up coming after today so coal & ash buildup should be manageable for the next week.
My loads burn way faster in the middle and not much towards the sides until later in the burn. It's a bit better now with the secondary partially blocked and I assume it's because of the boost air from the doghouse. I suppose I could block one of the holes behind one of the legs and see if that evens out the burn a little and again changes percentages more to the primary...
I’m also at my final settings in 20-30 minutes from a 52 degree stove. The only thing I get on the glass is a white haze. You can’t wipe it off dry but if you use water it washes off.
Over aggressive use of the key damper has caused some brown corners in the past. My theory is that with a weak draft, the air wash doesn’t blow all the way down to keep the smoke off the bottom.
Most people don’t burn wood for heat. It’s weird.
Over aggressive use of the key damper has caused some brown corners in the past. My theory is that with a weak draft, the air wash doesn’t blow all the way down to keep the smoke off the bottom.
Most people don’t burn wood for heat. It’s weird.
EbS-P
Minister of Fire
It would take hours after an install to do the break in burns then test draft on a hot load. Anyone who does this for a living and cares can probably eyeball the install and say “it’s gonna need a damper” then they may “but I can’t do that. Here a where you put and hole and this thing goes in that hole like this”.
I tried blocking only the secondary air intake. It’s still not enough. The excess primary air then fuels more fire than the secondaries can clean up. So after the dampers stall played with regulation g secondary air more. It was too many variables. I ran a stock with damper and realized I needed less primary air. So I block one hole then 2 of the three doghouse holes.
It still can run hot. But it’s controllable. Now you can experiment with how you load. I know anything N/S will burn faster than E/W and if I want a fast hot fire packet loose reload it sooner. If I want a longer lower output I just leave a few coals and pack it tight E/W
I always start with damper and air both wide open. First change is to the damper. I keep changing the damper until it’s full closed the. I use the air control.
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No problem about the rambles. Realistically without the manometer you truly are just guessing at if it’s close enough with the adjustment but I understand.
Burning faster in the middle seems to be about how most stoves run especially with the 30 having the center doghouse.
Funny enough my fiancé’s friend just bought a house and her husband paid 20k to put in central air instead of just a few mini splits. House also had a failed septic, no internet connection (and she works from home), and needed a new roof. Paid way too much for the house but they were first time home buyers who didn’t know any better.
Burning faster in the middle seems to be about how most stoves run especially with the 30 having the center doghouse.
Funny enough my fiancé’s friend just bought a house and her husband paid 20k to put in central air instead of just a few mini splits. House also had a failed septic, no internet connection (and she works from home), and needed a new roof. Paid way too much for the house but they were first time home buyers who didn’t know any better.
Another book...
So this is the little bit of darkening I have after secondaries are done and it's coaling. I'll get a pic later of it at it's worst. I did open the air some this load as it wound down to keep it going. The splits to the sides were looking pretty solid yet and I didn't want to smoulder. Currently damper and air are wide open to burn it down. Last nights load I ran completely on secondaries no primary for quite awhile which probably has a lot to do with the buildup.
![[Hearth.com] Englander 32 Modification](https://www.hearth.com/talk/data/attachments/335/335778-741383a05546a6187811aac3b5835974.jpg?hash=G-qkZqK_fC "[Hearth.com] Englander 32 Modification")
The buildup is not bad now, but when I'm early in cruising it is worse. 3/4 up the sides and further towards the middle, worse on the left. Flue temperatures in the mid 600's to mid 700's, stt mid 500's to low 600's.
With the damper at about 10%/1/8 open and air at 1/4 open the other night it settled in at 707 flue and 600 stt. Corners had some buildup early on but was gone by morning. Occasionally got just a little whiff of smoke smell but no visible smoke. This is where my flue and stt are closest, but I don't like that little whiff of smoke smell...
With the damper at 15-20% open and air at 1/8 open I think it ran a little hotter early, had a little more buildup on the glass early on that cleaned up by the end, and there was a little more charcoal with the coals. No whiffs of smoke. Flue and stt difference was 120-130 I think (blower running on high). This was my first attempt after partially blocking the secondary air. I stupidly didn't take notes.
Damper at 15-20% open air 1/4 open still seems to want to take off, but this is where I feel like I need to be to not get the smoke whiff and not have charcoal. Maybe I should try a load here and see if or where exactly it levels out. I think it was going over 800 flue with some help to stt (620-650) but not a lot. I should have started taking notes sooner...
Letting it char longer before closing the door is much more necessary than before I partially blocked the secondary air.
Either way the burn is pretty good and leaves good coals. I would prefer to not have buildup on the glass at all though.
So I hypothesis that damper more open and air more closed too much heat is leaving the stove and draft is weakening too much due to the horizontal run and not pulling enough air through towards the end of the burn and coaling phase with the air so closed. Damper a little more closed air more open keeps the temperatures up longer but with the occasional little whiff of smoke probably right at the bottom edge of draft.
If I decide to dial it in just a little better, I think my next step is block the secondary air a little more (from 1/3 blocked to 1/2 blocked) and see how it runs. Hopefully this keeps it controllable, strengthens the air wash enough to keep the glass clean, and gives a long clean burn. I think that 15-20% open is where I need to be for the damper. Not sure if air at 1/8 or 1/4 will be best. It may depend on outdoor conditions. I think I need to be on the higher end of acceptable draft early in the burn so as it comes down it stays in the acceptable range fighting the horizontal run. The difference in the burn going from air 3/8 open to 1/4 open is huge as I shut down; but maybe if I suppress the secondary's a little more it will run good with the damper at 15-20%, air at 1/4 open when cold out. It won't matter so much when it's warmer out, I typically run damper more open and smaller loads then...
🙄🤪🤔
I know, I know... Getting a manometer would take the guessing out of it...
So this is the little bit of darkening I have after secondaries are done and it's coaling. I'll get a pic later of it at it's worst. I did open the air some this load as it wound down to keep it going. The splits to the sides were looking pretty solid yet and I didn't want to smoulder. Currently damper and air are wide open to burn it down. Last nights load I ran completely on secondaries no primary for quite awhile which probably has a lot to do with the buildup.
The buildup is not bad now, but when I'm early in cruising it is worse. 3/4 up the sides and further towards the middle, worse on the left. Flue temperatures in the mid 600's to mid 700's, stt mid 500's to low 600's.
With the damper at about 10%/1/8 open and air at 1/4 open the other night it settled in at 707 flue and 600 stt. Corners had some buildup early on but was gone by morning. Occasionally got just a little whiff of smoke smell but no visible smoke. This is where my flue and stt are closest, but I don't like that little whiff of smoke smell...
With the damper at 15-20% open and air at 1/8 open I think it ran a little hotter early, had a little more buildup on the glass early on that cleaned up by the end, and there was a little more charcoal with the coals. No whiffs of smoke. Flue and stt difference was 120-130 I think (blower running on high). This was my first attempt after partially blocking the secondary air. I stupidly didn't take notes.
Damper at 15-20% open air 1/4 open still seems to want to take off, but this is where I feel like I need to be to not get the smoke whiff and not have charcoal. Maybe I should try a load here and see if or where exactly it levels out. I think it was going over 800 flue with some help to stt (620-650) but not a lot. I should have started taking notes sooner...
Letting it char longer before closing the door is much more necessary than before I partially blocked the secondary air.
Either way the burn is pretty good and leaves good coals. I would prefer to not have buildup on the glass at all though.
So I hypothesis that damper more open and air more closed too much heat is leaving the stove and draft is weakening too much due to the horizontal run and not pulling enough air through towards the end of the burn and coaling phase with the air so closed. Damper a little more closed air more open keeps the temperatures up longer but with the occasional little whiff of smoke probably right at the bottom edge of draft.
If I decide to dial it in just a little better, I think my next step is block the secondary air a little more (from 1/3 blocked to 1/2 blocked) and see how it runs. Hopefully this keeps it controllable, strengthens the air wash enough to keep the glass clean, and gives a long clean burn. I think that 15-20% open is where I need to be for the damper. Not sure if air at 1/8 or 1/4 will be best. It may depend on outdoor conditions. I think I need to be on the higher end of acceptable draft early in the burn so as it comes down it stays in the acceptable range fighting the horizontal run. The difference in the burn going from air 3/8 open to 1/4 open is huge as I shut down; but maybe if I suppress the secondary's a little more it will run good with the damper at 15-20%, air at 1/4 open when cold out. It won't matter so much when it's warmer out, I typically run damper more open and smaller loads then...
🙄🤪🤔
I know, I know... Getting a manometer would take the guessing out of it...
EbS-P
Minister of Fire
I’d get binoculars on you cap. If my windows looked like that my cap would be gooey
brenndatomu
Minister of Fire
Concern appreciated.
Just checked it a week ago before the cold snap and wire brushed a tiny amount of hairy stuff off the screen and a little fluff out of the top 2' that is exposed beyond the masonry.
That was before I partially blocked the secondary air 4 or 5 days ago. Here's a photo just now. The little bit of run down the side and black outside is from when I first installed 4 years ago, had marginal wood, didn't have a probe, and was afraid to stuff it full. I haven't ever worried about cleaning the outside, just the screen and inside. Left is west, side toward the photo is south. We get wind from all directions, so the little bit of buildup it typically gets tends to be on all sides. It is visible from the driveway and I keep an eye on it. Will be extra attentive with my experiments. With the coal bed lately I almost can't not get ripping (or choochin' 😂) quick; but I think my days of reloading and immediately shutting the door are done; and weak coal reloads or cold starts will need the door open longer too.
![[Hearth.com] Englander 32 Modification](https://www.hearth.com/talk/data/attachments/335/335790-371c017ea4e17decd7683bcdb2158f59.jpg?hash=hxIkHsK4ac "[Hearth.com] Englander 32 Modification")
Here's a picture without so much coal and ash behind it and one of the door open from the inside. Do you really think that's bad? I've only cleaned the glass a few times this year. Once before I started burning and a couple of times a few weeks ago during a warmer snap. Haven't cleaned it since then.
This isn't what I'm used to seeing on the NC30, but it's nowhere near as bad as the Stratford 2 up north. That dang thing with the narrow back and wide front gets badly boogered glass but the flue and cap are always good. I need to refine my process up there more too.
Anyway, that's why I'm considering more tweeking...
![[Hearth.com] Englander 32 Modification](https://www.hearth.com/talk/data/attachments/335/335792-4249bc3b55e8ffa484d70499400a3937.jpg?hash=tPXxlY8JXY "[Hearth.com] Englander 32 Modification")
![[Hearth.com] Englander 32 Modification](https://www.hearth.com/talk/data/attachments/335/335793-62e78c882020fb02510c1745e30e6b2a.jpg?hash=MHcwMWzFji "[Hearth.com] Englander 32 Modification")
This isn't what I'm used to seeing on the NC30, but it's nowhere near as bad as the Stratford 2 up north. That dang thing with the narrow back and wide front gets badly boogered glass but the flue and cap are always good. I need to refine my process up there more too.
Anyway, that's why I'm considering more tweeking...
EbS-P
Minister of Fire
Ok, good.
I wanted opinions on how bad everyone thought that was, but when I looked at that first photo again I noticed that the coal logs with ash on them in the background kind of looked like buildup on the glass.
Again, that's worse than I'm used to seeing on the NC30 which is why I'm considering further experiments. I know it can keep the glass cleaner than that...
Next load going in shortly and while I have the time to waste sitting here reading my book and picking everyone's brains on here I will see if I can leave the damper at 15-20% open and air at 1/4 open without intervention or not. My flue alarm is set to go off at 900 but I certainly don't want to get that high and will intervene before that. Then maybe I'll mark the current magnet spot and move it for tonight's load...
Before I got a number to make sure the draft was set to with the damper and manometer I was doing all the different things you are doing as was said earlier in this thread. Now that I have that draft spec of .05-.06 I no longer need to have the secondary blocked.
Running the stove with the draft set like that takes all the guess work out and it runs exactly like it should. If you aren’t able to measure your draft you’re just going to keep chasing your tail around in circles unfortunately like I was.
Also the buildup looked alright to me nothing too serious that I would worry about sometimes mine looks like that after an overnight burn.
Running the stove with the draft set like that takes all the guess work out and it runs exactly like it should. If you aren’t able to measure your draft you’re just going to keep chasing your tail around in circles unfortunately like I was.
Also the buildup looked alright to me nothing too serious that I would worry about sometimes mine looks like that after an overnight burn.
EbS-P
Minister of Fire
Make a not of how close to the glass the closest splits are. I can get some black if it’s too close to the glass
brenndatomu
Minister of Fire
Once you are set and cruising can you walk away half an hour in or do you have to make any adjustments as the burn continue's? If you are set and cruising at .05-.06, an hour or two later are you at .08-.09 (which is still fine)? What's your draft reading in the morning?
Edit: How much difference do you see in draft based on flue temperature? Say if you are at .05 at 550 flue is it at .07 at 650 with the same damper and air setting?
That's my concern with the tall flue, horizontal run and the experiments (basically duplicating yours)... I might be at .05 and cruising half an hour in, another hour later be at .13 with the gates of hell raging sending all the BTU's up the flue and the alarm going off shutting it down some more, and in the morning be .01 with smoked glass and charcoal.
Or waiting 2 hours and keeping the draft in spec, then having no draft in the morning with black glass and charcoal.
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At most it might jump up to .07-.08 and I dial it back a little back down to .05 if I leave it at .06-.07 and walk away after the first 30 minutes.
Ive never looked for correlation between the draft and flue temps just made sure that draft was at .05-.06 after wood was going regardless of flue temp.
Since I don’t reload the stove in the morning before work I never check it. But my glass is never smoked up and only tiny golf ball size pieces of charcoal if any at all is left
Ive never looked for correlation between the draft and flue temps just made sure that draft was at .05-.06 after wood was going regardless of flue temp.
Since I don’t reload the stove in the morning before work I never check it. But my glass is never smoked up and only tiny golf ball size pieces of charcoal if any at all is left
Thanks guys for all the input.
This afternoon's fire looks like a great success. 38 minutes from loading to final settings. Definitely settled in and coming down, so I can be confident leaving for a company outing when the wife gets home. We'll see what it looks like when we get back, and then see what a load packed tight with some premiums in it does. This load was all ash, mostly of my typical mongo size variety and not super tight; so a good candidate to take off and it didn't. I'll clean up my glass one of these upcoming warmer days and see if I can keep it clean.
This afternoon's fire looks like a great success. 38 minutes from loading to final settings. Definitely settled in and coming down, so I can be confident leaving for a company outing when the wife gets home. We'll see what it looks like when we get back, and then see what a load packed tight with some premiums in it does. This load was all ash, mostly of my typical mongo size variety and not super tight; so a good candidate to take off and it didn't. I'll clean up my glass one of these upcoming warmer days and see if I can keep it clean.
So without going into great detail...
I'm charring the loads more before closing the door. Damper at 15-20%, air at 1/4 is a good setting on full hardwood loads. Didn't make a difference from the all ash load to the ash/premium overnight load, both were great. The day I tried this setting I must have started making more adjustments just as it was about to level off. We'll see if that continues with the warmer weather, but I'm guessing it will.
I'm guessing those settings might also be good for smaller hardwood loads too. Shoulder season wood will be more opened up.
I might play with shutting the air down a bit further again, particularly when it's colder. Maybe with charring more now it will maintain a healthier fire and not get as much or any buildup on the glass...
I'm charring the loads more before closing the door. Damper at 15-20%, air at 1/4 is a good setting on full hardwood loads. Didn't make a difference from the all ash load to the ash/premium overnight load, both were great. The day I tried this setting I must have started making more adjustments just as it was about to level off. We'll see if that continues with the warmer weather, but I'm guessing it will.
I'm guessing those settings might also be good for smaller hardwood loads too. Shoulder season wood will be more opened up.
I might play with shutting the air down a bit further again, particularly when it's colder. Maybe with charring more now it will maintain a healthier fire and not get as much or any buildup on the glass...
EbS-P
Minister of Fire
I don’t like having to leave the door open. And I don’t char. I keep damper and air wide open until I hit 600 degree flue temps then start shutting damper down usually in two stages if it’s a cold start/reload. If it’s a hot reload it goes open to full closed. Then I close down the air in stages. I don’t want the whole load ever to ignite all at once. If it all gets burning that’s when I can’t keep it under 1000F even with everything shut down.
I do always throw some kindling on the coals.
Interesting! That would completely kill mine immediately!
Long winded response...
I never used to leave the door open and let it char, but it took forever to get to overnight settings. I tried charring and heating the flue more but it didn't help. Before partially blocking the secondary air I would have to run at damper 10% open and air 1/8 open for 1-1 1/2 hours so it didn't go nuclear, then open the air to 1/4 open before going to bed. If I left it at air 1/8 open there would be charred solid logs on the sides and badly smoked glass.
24' of vertical flue on a 15' minimum flue easy breathing stove is kind of tall, but the 4' horizontal run hurts the draft until it gets heated up good; then as it cools the draft dies pretty bad at some point.
Last nights load with the partially blocked secondary air on tons of coals door open and charring to 450 flue and wood well charred, closed the door, took off, 1 minute later 650 flue damper to 1/2, 1 minute later 700 flue damper to 1/4 open, dropping flue to 639 by 2 minutes later then starts rising again, 2 minutes later back to 700 flue 380 stt damper to that final 15-20% setting (just the difference from pointing at the top of a screw head to the bottom of the screw head), flue dropped to 550 by 5 minutes later but stt was up to 410, 14 minutes later flue back up to 700 again stt 500 and I started shutting down the air. 39 minutes total from loading to final air settings. The ash load in the afternoon was similar and 38 minutes loading to final settings.
Ripping full tilt flue 890 flue (alarm goes off at 900) I would completely kill it with damper and air fully shut. I can run on only secondaries for awhile damper fully shut and air probably 1/4 open but it wouldn't maintain for the length of the burn.
