Englander 32 Modification

[NickW]

Sweet! So still firing from the tubes, just not so robustly. So you shut primary air first, then the damper if necessary?

 

[weee123]

So pardon me if this is/are stupid question(s)...

Where are the volatiles combusting that would have been firing from the secondary air? If those volatiles are still combusting, how does it make it more controlled?

Not a stupid question. My secondaries are still getting enough air to fire properly as seen in the video below.

With the secondary air being more restricted it can’t pull as hard and as much volume with the primary air shut all the way down. When run unrestricted on some installs it will pull too hard causing an increase in temps which increases draft which increases flow which increases firing and temps in a spiral out of control

 

[NickW]

Not a stupid question. My secondaries are still getting enough air to fire properly as seen in the video below.

With the secondary air being more restricted it can’t pull as hard and as much volume with the primary air shut all the way down. When run unrestricted on some installs it will pull too hard causing an increase in temps which increases draft which increases flow which increases firing and temps in a spiral out of control

Right. Which was why I installed my damper. I went over 1000 flue and 800 stt once before the damper and that scared the bejesus out of me. Solved the problem except for the length of time it took to be able to get to my overnight settings.

I am at my overnight settings now 10 minutes after loading and hoping to not close up any more. We'll see if I have a takeoff in an hour and what my coals are like in the morning. I wonder if decreasing the secondary air, which will increase the doghouse and air wash percentage, might allow me to close the air control more...? So far things are looking good!

 

[all night moe]

Not sure why I’m able to get my flue temps lower and STT higher than you guys, just goes to show that every install comes with different running and burning characteristics

Is that single wall pipe? If so, I'm curious if you are loosing a bit of heat through the pipe before it hits the probe?

 

[weee123]

Is that single wall pipe? If so, I'm curious if you are loosing a bit of heat through the pipe before it hits the probe?

Yes it is single wall. The probe is only 20” above the stove top I doubt I’m losing over 100* in that short of a run

 

[all night moe]

Yes it is single wall. The probe is only 20” above the stove top I doubt I’m losing over 100* in that short of a run

Looked a lil taller.
I was guessing 24''....not that far off but, yea100* is a lot. Maybe if the room was stone cold.....

 

[weee123]

Sweet! So still firing from the tubes, just not so robustly. So you shut primary air first, then the damper if necessary?

Yes I only shut the damper when necessary. Which last night it was actually necessary to shut it all the way unfortunately.

After the season is over I’m pulling the stove and adding an actual secondary air control and the ability to completely shut down primary as well. I want complete control over a fire burning inside my house no matter what. If I have to sweep once a month so be it.

 

[weee123]

Right. Which was why I installed my damper. I went over 1000 flue and 800 stt once before the damper and that scared the bejesus out of me. Solved the problem except for the length of time it took to be able to get to my overnight settings.

I am at my overnight settings now 10 minutes after loading and hoping to not close up any more. We'll see if I have a takeoff in an hour and what my coals are like in the morning. I wonder if decreasing the secondary air, which will increase the doghouse and air wash percentage, might allow me to close the air control more...? So far things are looking good!

How’d it go last night?

 

[weee123]

Looked a lil taller.
I was guessing 24''....not that far off but, yea100* is a lot. Maybe if the room was stone cold.....

Yea pics don’t always give the best view. I do have a magnetic gauge on the stove pipe elbow at 18” off the top of the stove which corresponds with what I see on the probe adjusted for the angle. When I took those measurements room was about 73

 

[NickW]

How’d it go last night?

It was good! I am going to leave the magnet where it is for now and see how it goes for a few day before considering covering any more.

Heaters were kicking in this morning, but the house was pretty chilly last night already when I went to bed. All the experiments and trying to burn down coals put me behind. I had both the air and damper a little more closed than normal, good coals but a little more charcoal than normal, just a little bit of buildup on the lower corners.

Today is supposed to be up to 20, tonight 5, tomorrow 16, tomorrow night -1; so not quite as cold but still pretty danged cold. Will be good weather to continue the experiment, then when (if?) it gets a little warmer I can see how much that affects it.

 

[weee123]

It was good! I am going to leave the magnet where it is for now and see how it goes for a few day before considering covering any more.

Heaters were kicking in this morning, but the house was pretty chilly last night already when I went to bed. All the experiments and trying to burn down coals put me behind. I had both the air and damper a little more closed than normal, good coals but a little more charcoal than normal, just a little bit of buildup on the lower corners.

Today is supposed to be up to 20, tonight 5, tomorrow 16, tomorrow night -1; so not quite as cold but still pretty danged cold. Will be good weather to continue the experiment, then when (if?) it gets a little warmer I can see how much that affects it.

Didn’t have to make anymore adjustments after reaching overnight settings?

 

[brenndatomu]

The manometer needle is no longer bouncing off .15 plus and hangs around .09-.1. I did my first full load with it covered at 60% without using the damper and got over a 9 hour burn and woke up to this left in the stove

If you close the key damper until your draft is more in the 0.05 to 0.06" WC range, you will find yet another level of efficiency, and probably be able to open that secondary air back up a little (50% closed?) as I bet you are not burning quite as clean as it was in stock form.

The wood furnace guys have taught us that you want to limit the flow through the stove to slow down the gasses and allow heat to exchange to the skin. This is done by regulating the draft to within spec. Overdraft can also damage the stove by creating a blast furnace! Without regulating draft, and with the way modern noncats are designed, adjusting the air control simply switches where the air comes from. Be it the primary or secondary system. One of those will satisfy the draft.

We all should be using manometers to measure the draft strength, especially when using key dampers.

Amen brother, preach truth to the masses!! 👍

 

[NickW]

Didn’t have to make anymore adjustments after reaching overnight settings?

Well... I didn't know what my new overnight settings would need to be... I ended with air at 1/8 open instead of 1/4 open and damper a little more closed than typical (15-20% open instead of 25% open). It worked pretty well.

Now I can play with trying to run a little hotter with the damper more closed air more open, or longer with the damper more open air more closed and see what happens. Stove definitely has a better stt in relation to flue with the damper more closed, so I think draft is pretty strong (hot). Going to be doing some manometer research...

Weather warms up a little through the weekend, Sunday's high is 35; so it will give me a chance to see what happens then.

 

[all night moe]

Noted!
I will be installing manometers on all burning appliances save one. The one that will be used the least.