Advice: Ideal Steel or Blaze King Princess

[freeburn]

On stove cost, the base princess costs the same as the base IS brand new at my local stove shop. The nc30 still costs less than half as much at 800$.

Where can you get a BK princess brand new for $1925?

 

[HarvestMan]

Pretty sure they are not twice as big.

I think the IS cat is same as Fireview cat, but not completely sure. But, here is the Fireview cat size from a post I made some time ago (https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...a-blaze-king-ultra.145687/page-4#post-1998469).

Canister Measures 9.75 x 5.25


BK King 5.0 x 10.5 = 52.5
BK Ashford 4 x 10.6 = 42.4
WS Fireview (4.7x4.7)x2 = 44.18

Looks like double to me! That is actually a pretty funny story after all!



Here are some BK cat sizes from the condar site

 

[Babaganoosh]

I just measured the cat in my IS. It's 9.5 by 5. That's 47.5 square inches . I can't check the depth because it's pretty hot and can't remove it without burning myself. It's all one piece and not two cells like the fireview.

 

[freeburn]

I just measured the cat in my IS. It's 9.5 by 5. That's 47.5 square inches . I can't check the depth because it's pretty hot and can't remove it without burning myself. It's all one piece and not two cells like the fireview.

Hmmm... Not quite double I guess then!?!

 

[BKVP]

Wouldn't it also be burn rate? If the BK tops out at say 50KBTUs/hr and the 30NC is being forced to burn at 90KBTUs/hr, efficiency is not in the equation. That is like saying a Prius in not efficient because it only gets 30mpg at 95mph.

Sorry BeGreen, but there is still an efficiency rating even in high burn rates. Multiply the thermal efficiency (HHV) at the high burn rate times peek Btu's. What counts is what stays in your home...not what the stove generates.

Undisputed is the fact that 90% of wood burners operate their stoves on high less than 10% of the time. That is why in method 28R and previously in method 28M, category 1 and category 2 carrying over 70% of the value in "weighted average".

Also, stopping sending all your rain over here!!

 

[BKVP]

Actually, you folks are forgetting that size only matters if all else is equal.

NOT ALL CATS ARE EQUAL! Stove manufacturers can choose from dozens of plating mixtures. Simply increasing or decreasing the amount of palladium or platinum will have a HUGE effect on price.

Some cats coming into the USA have so little precious metals that we could buy them at substantially less cost. But then we could not offer our 10 year warranty. Also, there only two cat manufacturers is the USA, that serve the stove industry. Clariant (which was Sud Chemie and Corning before that) and Applied Ceramics. Guess where Clariant buys their ceramic substrates...yup.

That is the reason OEM cats are best purchased from www.firecatcombustors.com because 100% of the cat is made by the seller and in the USA. Clariant does not sell direct to consumer.

Back to the playoffs....

 

[begreen]

What counts is what stays in your home...not what the stove generates.

Which is precisely what is not happening in the barn. There simply is no comparison for fuel consumption with taking a cold large space and all it's content up 20º or more as compared to maintaining less cubic ftg. at a steady temp. Swap out the stoves and the BK will be eating wood quickly and the 30NC much less so. Is the BK more effiicient? Yes, but 5% increased efficiency does not account for the difference in heating load the stoves are achieving.

Rain is good for the winter wheat. Enjoy it while it lasts and hope we don't get a repeat of last summer's drought.

 

[Highbeam]

Which is precisely what is not happening in the barn. There simply is no comparison for fuel consumption with taking a cold large space and all it's content up 20º or more as compared to maintaining less cubic ftg. at a steady temp. Swap out the stoves and the BK will be eating wood quickly and the 30NC much less so. Is the BK more effiicient? Yes, but 5% increased efficiency does not account for the difference in heating load the stoves are achieving.

Rain is good for the winter wheat. Enjoy it while it lasts and hope we don't get a repeat of last summer's drought.

Btus are btus. Doesn't matter what you're heating. The noncats do the job but just waste a lot of heat up the flue.

The bk cats are 2" thick.

 

[HarvestMan]

Actually, you folks are forgetting that size only matters if all else is equal.

Actually, this has nothing to do with quality. Only trying to determine the correct cat sizes. I cannot speak to the quality of the cats. I've tried going down this road once before and found that the truth is a difficult thing to find. One will say the truth is here, one will say the truth is there.

I was concerned about that too but the story is actually pretty funny. The cat costs more because it is much bigger. Cost is proportional to size. See, when you want to build the most efficient stove you need a bigger cat.

 

[Highbeam]

I think the IS cat is same as Fireview cat, but not completely sure. But, here is the Fireview cat size from a post I made some time ago (https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...a-blaze-king-ultra.145687/page-4#post-1998469).

Canister Measures 9.75 x 5.25
View attachment 172260

BK King 5.0 x 10.5 = 52.5


BK Ashford 4 x 10.6 = 42.4
WS Fireview (4.7x4.7)x2 = 44.18

Looks like double to me! That is actually a pretty funny story after all!

View attachment 172259

Here are some BK cat sizes from the condar site

View attachment 172255 View attachment 172256 View attachment 172257 View attachment 172258

All that effort and no consideration for thickness? Welcome to the third dimension,the important one.

 

[Highbeam]

Where can you get a BK princess brand new for $1925?

Don't forget you need to pay for shipping on that Woodstock. My local dealer sells the princess for just over 2000$.

 

[HarvestMan]

All that effort and no consideration for thickness? Welcome to the third dimension,the important one.

Look again please, then tell me what you see.

 

[Highbeam]

Look again please, then tell me what you see.

You're right. Seems to be about the same volume of cat for less money. So every five years or so you will save 100$ on a cheaper replacement cat.

 

[Highbeam]

You're right. Seems to be about the same volume of cat for less money. So every five years or so you will save 100$ on a cheaper replacement cat.

Though when I look at the firecat site linked above I see the fireview cat price is 100$ per half, or 200$ for replacement compared to the 250$ for the entire princess cat.

Whatever, small issue, you can have the point that the cats are slightly cheaper. The bk cats have a ten year warranty, what's the warranty for Woodstock cats?

 

[HarvestMan]

You're right. Seems to be about the same volume of cat for less money. So every five years or so you will save 100$ on a cheaper replacement cat.

Forgive me. Just having a bit of fun busting your chops. Sometimes the devil rules me.

I am as a boy walking down life's path carrying a pouch of stones. As I approach a hornet's nest, a mysterious force compels me to throw a stone at it. The same mysterious force controls the swarming hornets, yet they perceive it not. I so love the mysterious force, just as it does the hornets.​

 

[Highbeam]

Forgive me. Just having a bit of fun busting your chops. Sometimes the devil rules me.

I am as a boy walking down life's path carrying a pouch of stones. As I approach a hornet's nest, a mysterious force compels me to throw a stone at it. The same mysterious force controls the swarming hornets, yet they perceive it not. I so love the mysterious force, just as it does the hornets.​

Please bust them. You actually only save 50$ on the fireview vs. The princess and the princess cat includes the stainless can and a new gasket so it is reasonable to pay a little more. The op isn't looking at a fireview. How does the IS compare?

 

[HarvestMan]

Please bust them.

I've had my fun. Time to put my stones away for a time and head down my path.

 

[Randy Acton]

I love the Ideal Steel also and will probably pull the trigger on one this spring. The Blaze King will be my second choice if I change my mind and only due to price.

Lot of mud slinging on burn times between the IS and the princess but IMHO they really arent significantly different. First, for every BK owner that says 30+ hrs burn time is easy, there is another that says it is far fetched.

Look at posts on different forums and you will find IS Beta testers that acheived 24-30 hour burn times under optimal conditions and others routinely getting 18-20 hours.

So if you take away all the "My-stove-is-better-than-yours-chest beating", it seems there might be a realistic 4-6 hr difference with BK winning. SO the BK guy will have to load his stove 7 times a week in the shoulder season and the Woodstock guy 9 times (whoopee doo!!)

 

[BKVP]

Please bust them. You actually only save 50$ on the fireview vs. The princess and the princess cat includes the stainless can and a new gasket so it is reasonable to pay a little more. The op isn't looking at a fireview. How does the IS compare?

Actually, this has nothing to do with quality. Only trying to determine the correct cat sizes. I cannot speak to the quality of the cats. I've tried going down this road once before and found that the truth is a difficult thing to find. One will say the truth is here, one will say the truth is there.

It has everything to do with price. I can buy from an overseas supplier a cat of identical dimensions for 1/4th the price. Please accept the fact that this is what we do. One stove manufacturer uses the overseas cats, their margins on resell are superb! In all testing done by cat stove manufacturers it comes down to price versus particulate destruction.

 

[BKVP]

Forgive me. Just having a bit of fun busting your chops. Sometimes the devil rules me.

I am as a boy walking down life's path carrying a pouch of stones. As I approach a hornet's nest, a mysterious force compels me to throw a stone at it. The same mysterious force controls the swarming hornets, yet they perceive it not. I so love the mysterious force, just as it does the hornets.

Did somebody says hornets nests?​

 

[rdust]

I love reading from the fan boys on both sides!

I've never seen 30hrs out of my princess, 24hrs is easy during the SS but means nothing this time of year.(1 full load and almost full load right now) If I had NG heat when I started burning wood in 09 a low burning stove would mean very little. Maybe this year I'll tap this NG they brought out last year then maybe my stoves low burn ability will mean less, well...ahhh probably not!

If I was buying a stove today the decision may be more difficult but I could never see swapping from a Princess to another stove currently available. Should a stove clearly better than my Princess come out I'd own it at the start of next years heating season.

 

[BKVP]

I love reading from the fan boys on both sides!

I've never seen 30hrs out of my princess, 24hrs is easy during the SS but means nothing this time of year.(1 full load and almost full load right now) If I had NG heat when I started burning wood in 09 a low burning stove would mean very little. Maybe this year I'll tap this NG they brought out last year then maybe my stoves low burn ability will mean less, well...ahhh probably not!

If I was buying a stove today the decision may be more difficult but I could never see swapping from a Princess to another stove currently available. Should a stove clearly better than my Princess come out I'd own it at the start of next years heating season.

So that's the new challenge, hum.....

 

[rdust]

So that's the new challenge, hum.....

4+ cubic' stove on a 6" flue similar to the Ashford in styling. Ready, set, go!

 

[tarzan]

I love the Ideal Steel also and will probably pull the trigger on one this spring. The Blaze King will be my second choice if I change my mind and only due to price.

Lot of mud slinging on burn times between the IS and the princess but IMHO they really arent significantly different. First, for every BK owner that says 30+ hrs burn time is easy, there is another that says it is far fetched.

Look at posts on different forums and you will find IS Beta testers that acheived 24-30 hour burn times under optimal conditions and others routinely getting 18-20 hours.

So if you take away all the "My-stove-is-better-than-yours-chest beating", it seems there might be a realistic 4-6 hr difference with BK winning. SO the BK guy will have to load his stove 7 times a week in the shoulder season and the Woodstock guy 9 times (whoopee doo!!)

I can say that I have seen plenty of 30 hour burns in the BK Princess. From what I have read the IS can't achieve this despite being a slightly larger stove.

By your analogy of loading the IS stove just 2 more times a week, that's still going to result in a noticable amount more wood to process or buy over the course of a burning season in many areas.

I doubt you would ever be disappointed with an IS based on everything I have read (never owned one) but don't be so skeptical of BK's burn times. Heck, I didn't totaly believe the hype myself until I had one in my living room.

 

[JA600L]

I don't think this has to be such a competion. The op will simply have to make a decision based off of what he sees as the best fit for them.

The only real way to know which performs better is to have someone own both and give us an honest review. I volunteer if anybody wants to drop off a princess here .