Advice: Ideal Steel or Blaze King Princess

[Ashful]

I live in Pennsylvania. It's a real feel of -2 here right now. Unless you had a small well insulated house you would be loading twice a day too.

Biting tongue...

 

[JA600L]

Biting tongue...

How many stoves do you have going tonight?

 

[rdust]

You've never experienced the clear advantages that other cat stoves have to offer.

This isn't a question to be snotty but what are the clear advantages? I'm not sure what clear advantage any available cat stove offers over a BK.

 

[fox9988]

This isn't a question to be snotty but what are the clear advantages? I'm not sure what clear advantage any available cat stove offers over a BK.

Price, looks, flames, clean glass to see the flames, money back satisfaction guarantee, Cheap parts, cheap cats, color choices, custom colors, custom designs (IS), renowned customer service, top-rear vent reversible (except FV), soapstone feel (have to experience to appreciate), no middle man, no middle man obstacle if customer support is needed (kudos to BKVP's presence here), max BTU/hr output, left-right-front load options, ash pan system that Works, andirons, adjustable height (IS).

BK's have their advantage (thermostat) and offer an awesome stove. If I had to change brands I'd buy one. I need a very low output (long burn times) stove due to climate and insulation. I manage this 95% of the time with two 1.3 cuft loads (often partial) per 24 hours in a Keystone. Usually a 14 hour burn and a 10 hour burn per day. Yes a 2.85 cuft Princess would manage this, and would be my second choice. Some people need lots of heat, some need long burn times (the King does both well at 4.32 cuft).

 

[drz1050]

Biting tongue...

Now, you're not being entirely honest here. JA600L is using one stove to heat his entire house. If he only ran it as auxiliary heat (and if he had 2 of them, AND an endless supply of super dry white oak), I'm sure he could get along with one load/ day as well.

Princess vs Ideal Steel? They're both excellent stoves, I don't think you could go wrong with either. Which one do you like the look of more? I really think that's what this boils down to. I think the Ideal Steel at full blast will put out more heat than a Princess, so if you leave for a weekend it'll get the house back up to temp faster when you get back.

Edit: more than I thought. Ideal Steel = 60k. Princess = 40k. If you currently ever run your Englander at full blast, that's 75k- almost double what the Princess can put out.

The customization of the Ideal Steels is a cool option if you want something like that.. and I think their foolproof cat bypass lever (hanging over the door) is better than BK's (out of sight, out of mind on the side)

The BK will beat it on burn time/ temp stability due to the thermostat.

Soooo- flip a coin, mister.

 

[Ashful]

Drz1050, you mistook my kidding around. That wasn't a BK vs WS jab, but more about how many loads any army of stoves would take to heat this not "small well insulated house" in Pennsylvania.

@JA600L, just the usual two stoves! But I had some conventional backup running last night.

 

[Ashful]

Drz1050, you mistook my kidding around. That wasn't a BK vs WS jab, but more about how many loads any army of stoves would take to heat this not "small well insulated house" in Pennsylvania.

@JA600L, just the usual two stoves! But I had some conventional backup running last night.

Price, looks, flames, clean glass to see the flames, money back satisfaction guarantee, Cheap parts, cheap cats, color choices, custom colors, custom designs (IS), renowned customer service, top-rear vent reversible (except FV), soapstone feel (have to experience to appreciate), no middle man, no middle man obstacle if customer support is needed (kudos to BKVP's presence here), max BTU/hr output, left-right-front load options, ash pan system that Works, andirons, adjustable height (IS).

Okay, I'll bite. The OP is looking at a Princess that is half the price of an outfitted IS. The BK can run with flames, as mine were all night last night. They can as run ripping high as your Woodstock... but they can also run low like no other. Looks? Is there anything as ugly as the Ideal Steel? Neither are going to win any beauty contest. The ash pan issue is unique to the Ashford 30.1, not a factor on the Princess the OP is considering. The money back guarantee... yeah, that is fantastic. Can't argue that one point.

 

[JA600L]

Not starting a battle here at all, but DRZ is on to something. Look closely at the specs between the two stoves. There are some noticeable differences in the area of btu output, log length, emissions gph, etc... we know blaze king lists a longer burn time.

Other then super long burn time, what advantage does the Blaze king have over his current stove?

 

[Babaganoosh]

People keep commenting on the IS's looks. I gotta admit when I was looking for a stove that I was slightly offput by the looks. However in person it looks great. I'm not sure what it is but many have said it. You really have to see one to judge.

 

[becasunshine]

It was between the Blaze King Princess and the Woodstock Ideal Steel all along for us.

I really like the steam punk aesthetic of the Ideal Steel.

We went to the Popular Mechanics competition in Washington D.C. as a part of our shopping process, and specifically to see the Ideal Steel and to meet the Woodstock folks. We were impressed with both.

In the end, it came down to practical matters. Our insurance company required documented proof of "professional installation." Our county required permits and on site inspection. The closest stove shop to our remote location was 40 miles away, and the owner was in the process of shutting down the business and retiring. He never returned my calls. The next closest shop (that I could find) was 80 miles away. That owner was not enthusiastic about traveling the distance to install a stove we might have purchased from him (not even our preferred brand) much less traveling the distance to install a stove we purchased from someone else.

The lone Blaze King dealer in Virginia (there may be more now, I haven't looked) was willing and cheerful, happy and cooperative about traveling HUNDREDS of miles (we paid a bit extra in travel costs but given the distance, we thought that was reasonable) to install the Princess. He pulled all the permits, provided documentation of professional installation for our insurance company, and stuck around to meet with the county inspector.

I don't know how or where I could have found that level of service to get an Ideal Steel stove installed.

There were many features about the Ideal Steel that appealed to me/us, per above. I cook on the Princess all the time. We were just discussing yesterday how awesome having the cooktop on the Ideal Steel would have been. I love the concept of the gentle heating gradient off of the soapstone, and how it would have held its heat even after shut down. I love the customizable features and I thought the battery charger/electrical outlet off of the stack was a great idea. (Did that feature make it into and through beta testing?)

But, in the end, the practical considerations of installation carried the day.

I think I would have been thrilled with either stove, albeit perhaps over different features and characteristics of each.

Edited to add: Family members had old school dragon burners in the 70s and 80s. Compared to those stoves, the Blaze King Princess is the easiest wood stove to light and operate that I've ever seen. It's so easy to operate that it almost defies belief. Other than the long burn times, this, to me, is the advantage that Blaze King offers. Since I've never operated a Woodstock stove I cannot compare the two in terms of ease of operation, but I cannot imagine any wood stove being easier to operate than the Princess.

You guys are arguing over brunettes vs. redheads.

 

[rdust]

People keep commenting on the IS's looks. I gotta admit when I was looking for a stove that I was slightly offput by the looks. However in person it looks great. I'm not sure what it is but many have said it. You really have to see one to judge.

If I had a dollar for every time a BK Princess or King owner said this to a WS owner in a thread before the IS came out I'd have a bunch of money.

 

[Woody Stover]

This isn't a question to be snotty but what are the clear advantages?

Fox9988 has laid it out pretty well in post #129. For me, several things came into play. The Dutchwest spoiled me on the grated ash-handling system. I went back to shoveling 'em for a time with the Fireview but that just reinforced the fact that this feature is non-negotiable to me at this point. Another thing was rear-venting. I have a masonry fireplace, so it gives me the option of having the stove out on the hearth where it can radiate, then venting it through the chimney with no visible pipe. Venting options, height adjustments, etc. might come in handy down the road, if the OP moves.
No, rdust, I didn't take your question as 'snotty'. You're a lot more objective in your observations than some. I also am not afraid to speak up if there's something I don't like about a stove, even if I own it. I've said I don't like the maintenance of cemented seams, and that my cat stoves will blow some smoke if run on high, where the cat doesn't have time to catch it all. Low and behold, the new Woodstock 211 may answer both of those shortcomings, and with rear-vent on a steel stove, that's why I've got an eye on it.
The OP is trying to make an informed decision, and anyone posting shouldn't hesitate to lay out everything he's aware of with a particular stove. I get sucked into these debates with the fanboys, and try to balance out their one-sided slant, then fall into doing the same thing. We (and those looking for objective info) don't need more zealots like those spouting a Walla BullKrap.
I'll throw one thing out there; A blower on the Princess, if his has it, might help him move warm air upstairs. If not, I think they might be pricey. With the IS, he could possibly use a small 8" fan to pull more heat off the stove and get more moving. Not sure if his 30 has blower...

Okay, I'll bite.

Bah. You hardly bit at all, just addressed a couple points, and not very well. "The OP is looking at a Princess that is half the price of an outfitted IS." Well, no, more like 2/3. This is a loaded IS, the only up-charge would be if you wanted custom art instead of choosing from the stock art.

Yes, there's shipping, but Woodstock sometimes runs free shipping deals. And Princess is a USED stove. There's no way of knowing for sure what's happened to it, and no warranty. Why is the guy selling it? Most people won't give more than half of retail for a used stove. I got the Buck 91, four years old, for 1/3.

 

[becasunshine]

If I had a dollar for every time a BK Princess or King owner said this to a WS owner in a thread before the IS came out I'd have a bunch of money.

This is amusing to me, especially since Hubs and I were having this very conversation in the car last night on the way back to town.

Both of us agree that the original, pre-Ideal Steel WS stoves are beautiful, but perhaps a bit too ornate for our décor. The clean lines of the Princess work well. The equally elegant, simple lines of the Ideal Steel would have worked too.

It was on another thread long ago and far, far away, but I believe it was Brother Bart who said, in reference to the original WS designs, something to the effect of (I paraphrase) "If I want a Buddhist temple, I'll visit a Buddhist temple. I don't need one in my house."

Darn you Brother Bart! I never saw it before then, but the unique style of the original WS stoves does strike me as somewhat temple-ish to downright cathedral-esque now. I still think they are beautiful but I have to admit, the soapstone and wrought iron exteriors along with some of the color combinations look almost confectionary to me now. It reminds me of the replica of the Mormon Tabernacle that I saw as a child, rendered completely out of sugar and preserved under glass. It was gorgeous.

Kudos to the folks at WS for realizing that while their signature soapstone look is iconic and highly desirable, there are other aesthetics as well. I have to admit, the hard departure from their iconic look was something of a shock to my sensibilities at first; I didn't expect it in the product line. It was almost jarring by comparison, but it grew on me quickly. I strongly admire the company's ability to think outside of the box and to take a risk on such a strong departure.

If installation issues hadn't been such an obstacle and if the Ideal Steel had been out of beta testing, in full production and ready for retail sale, chances are very good that we'd have an Ideal Steel in the house right now. That's where our eyes and attention went first.

 

[Highbeam]

But for some reason you can't admit that some other cat stove might be better for someone else; You've somehow concluded that your stove is the best thing for everyone.

You've now resorted to personal mudslinging which is quite telling. Go away until you can grow up and respond to the issues.

 

[Highbeam]

Price, looks, flames, clean glass to see the flames, money back satisfaction guarantee, Cheap parts, cheap cats, color choices, custom colors, custom designs (IS), renowned customer service, top-rear vent reversible (except FV), soapstone feel (have to experience to appreciate), no middle man, no middle man obstacle if customer support is needed (kudos to BKVP's presence here), max BTU/hr output, left-right-front load options, ash pan system that Works, andirons, adjustable height (IS).

BK's have their advantage (thermostat) and offer an awesome stove. If I had to change brands I'd buy one. I need a very low output (long burn times) stove due to climate and insulation. I manage this 95% of the time with two 1.3 cuft loads (often partial) per 24 hours in a Keystone. Usually a 14 hour burn and a 10 hour burn per day. Yes a 2.85 cuft Princess would manage this, and would be my second choice. Some people need lots of heat, some need long burn times (the King does both well at 4.32 cuft).

Oh good, somebody took the time to list some strong points of the IS.

1) Price, not a point for either. The IS is the same price as the BK once you include shipping.
2) Looks, subjective of course but I too have called the BK ugly. It grows on you. The WS stoves are often deemed too artsy. So no points.
3) clean glass, When you burn them hot the folks say that their BKs stay clean but on low my BK window doesn't stay clean. Perhaps if the IS could be run at low temps then it would dirty up too. Hard to say. I wish my glass would stay clean on low. Point WS but only half.
4) money back guarantee. I always thought this was to make up for the fact that you couldn't see one at a dealership. I have never wished for a money back guarantee on any of my stoves. It is unique to WS so if that's important to you for some reason then there you go. If it was good you wouldn't need to return it. Half point WS.
5) Cheap parts and cats. This slight advantage is present but very small and hardly of value. I worry more that you need parts. 1/4 point WS
6) colors. If it's really important, anybody can spraypaint any stove. Can I guess that 99% of stoves are black? 1/4 point WS
7) artsy design cutouts at extra cost. To me they are unattractive but they are optional and some folks like the art on their stoves. 1/4 point WS
8) Customer service, never been lacking from my BK or hearthstone for me. Always had direct communication with the manufacturer or dealer. No points.
9) top or rear vent, for sure, this is a point for IS if you need it. one point WS.
10) Soapstone feel. Completely unimportant. I've had a stone stove and this is all hype. No points.
11) No middle man. Funny, in this case the middle man can only help. You certainly aren't paying extra for it. Seems the WS would wish they had a middle man to handle shipping or loading into your truck. point BK.
12) Higher max btu out, point WS. Not sure I believe it but it is rated higher.
13) Left right door options, this is another option like #6 and 7. Woodstock offers options on the IS. THis particular option gains 1/4 point. Together they all add up to a solid point.
14) ash pan. This is interesting. I've never used a good ash pan. I have been using the BK ash plug system and it works but how to rate this. Is it really of value? Benefit of the doubt, point for WS.
15) andirons. Not valuable, more harm then good. This is an art option covered above. No points.
16) Adjustable height. No value to most. No points.

1) thermostat on BK, point BK.
2) double the burn time if you want it, two points BK.
3) Dealership network, you can go see one, people know what they are, high market share, point BK
4) deep ash belly, I've emptied ashes twice all year, with the ash pan system. The deep belly keeps sparks, logs, junk, in the stove. Point BK.
5) BKVP on this site to help, no WS representation, half point BK.
6) Blowers and convection plus radiation from front. I didn't think they would matter but they make a huge difference, especially in a basement application. half point BK.
7) Spark protection hearth pad only on BK, IS requires R-0.41, half point BK.

You might not agree with my point awards but what we are trying to accomplish is a list of comparative pros and cons that you might assign your own value to so that you can determine which stove is best for you.

I would be happy to own as IS, especially out in the barn where I could really use that high top end output.

 

[Highbeam]

Low and behold, the new Woodstock 211 may answer both of those shortcomings, and with rear-vent on a steel stove, that's why I've got an eye on it.

The IS is already available with top or rear vent. Steel and rear vent.

 

[Babaganoosh]

Oh good, somebody took the time to list some strong points of the IS.

1) Price, not a point for either. The IS is the same price as the BK once you include shipping.
2) Looks, subjective of course but I too have called the BK ugly. It grows on you. The WS stoves are often deemed too artsy. So no points.
3) clean glass, When you burn them hot the folks say that their BKs stay clean but on low my BK window doesn't stay clean. Perhaps if the IS could be run at low temps then it would dirty up too. Hard to say. I wish my glass would stay clean on low. Point WS but only half.
4) money back guarantee. I always thought this was to make up for the fact that you couldn't see one at a dealership. I have never wished for a money back guarantee on any of my stoves. It is unique to WS so if that's important to you for some reason then there you go. If it was good you wouldn't need to return it. Half point WS.
5) Cheap parts and cats. This slight advantage is present but very small and hardly of value. I worry more that you need parts. 1/4 point WS
6) colors. If it's really important, anybody can spraypaint any stove. Can I guess that 99% of stoves are black? 1/4 point WS
7) artsy design cutouts at extra cost. To me they are unattractive but they are optional and some folks like the art on their stoves. 1/4 point WS
8) Customer service, never been lacking from my BK or hearthstone for me. Always had direct communication with the manufacturer or dealer. No points.
9) top or rear vent, for sure, this is a point for IS if you need it. one point WS.
10) Soapstone feel. Completely unimportant. I've had a stone stove and this is all hype. No points.
11) No middle man. Funny, in this case the middle man can only help. You certainly aren't paying extra for it. Seems the WS would wish they had a middle man to handle shipping or loading into your truck. point BK.
12) Higher max btu out, point WS. Not sure I believe it but it is rated higher.
13) Left right door options, this is another option like #6 and 7. Woodstock offers options on the IS. THis particular option gains 1/4 point. Together they all add up to a solid point.
14) ash pan. This is interesting. I've never used a good ash pan. I have been using the BK ash plug system and it works but how to rate this. Is it really of value? Benefit of the doubt, point for WS.
15) andirons. Not valuable, more harm then good. This is an art option covered above. No points.
16) Adjustable height. No value to most. No points.

1) thermostat on BK, point BK.
2) double the burn time if you want it, two points BK.
3) Dealership network, you can go see one, people know what they are, high market share, point BK
4) deep ash belly, I've emptied ashes twice all year, with the ash pan system. The deep belly keeps sparks, logs, junk, in the stove. Point BK.
5) BKVP on this site to help, no WS representation, half point BK.
6) Blowers and convection plus radiation from front. I didn't think they would matter but they make a huge difference, especially in a basement application. half point BK.
7) Spark protection hearth pad only on BK, IS requires R-0.41, half point BK.

You might not agree with my point awards but what we are trying to accomplish is a list of comparative pros and cons that you might assign your own value to so that you can determine which stove is best for you.

I would be happy to own as IS, especially out in the barn where I could really use that high top end output.

Is it possible to be more biased? Wow. That's fanboy material right there.

 

[Highbeam]

Is it possible to be more biased? Wow. That's fanboy material right there.

Totally, I'm a fan and made my choice. Let's hear your list. Talk's cheap.

 

[Babaganoosh]

Totally, I'm a fan and made my choice. Let's hear your list. Talk's cheap.

Being a fanboy isn't a good thing in case you weren't aware.

Sorry man, I'm not going to make up a post like that to satiate some guy on the Internet. Talk might be cheap, but my time isn't. I've got much better things to do than that, and if I don't, I'll find something.

You can get back to your chest thumping now.

 

[Highbeam]

Being a fanboy isn't a good thing in case you weren't aware.

Sorry man, I'm not going to make up a post like that to satiate some guy on the Internet. Talk might be cheap, but my time isn't. I've got much better things to do than that, and if I don't, I'll find something.

You can get back to your chest thumping now.

Glad you stopped by to do nothing but insult me then....

 

[begreen]

And on that note... Nothing much helping here at this point. Closing thread.