2022/23 VC Owner thread

[Eman85]

As I said my stove is 35 years old so it's the first incarnation of an Encore. I can pack the box all of the way and never had any problems until this year with a new cat and new secondary air coil. I never even remember much of a glow from the catalyst in the past. Now I can see a heck of a glow through the slit sometimes.
I'm still in my quest for definite info on how the secondary air control is supposed to work. I think I've actually created one of my problems by replacing my old coil. My old coil held the shutter closed all of the time.

 

[newguyjoe]

im not sure what you mean by the 4th click back puffs. Are you going from lowest to highest with 3 clicks and the 4th click backpuffs?
Ive only had one backpuff and that was during a startup phase, going too quickly from low>high as I was new and was quickly trying to see the difference it made. Kinda amazing to see smoke woosh through all the areas you probably thought were airtight huh? . Ok maybe not amazing, alarming at first..
I have a 15' assembly from my stove top to the chimney top (excluding cap). My assembly has a single wall adapter for the stove, then a double wall on top of that, followed by a 12" piece, a telescopic piece that goes into a 45 el, then another telescopic piece that goes into another el which then goes into the chimney support box. Draft seems pretty good. In fact if I open the damper with 1/2 - 3/4 load of wood that has caught, a massive amount of flames while come up and go through the damper where most of the flames die out but some keeps going up the flue pipe.

my 4th click down going from wide open to closed....its not enough air and ill get back puff

 

[GrumpyDad]

my 4th click down going from wide open to closed....its not enough air and ill get back puff

Hmm sounds like a venting issue. Do you have enough length, and not a bunch of turns? Does it run outside exposed?

 

[Eman85]

i also dont fill my stove anymore. 3 decent logs and watch for 20 minutes or so before going to bed.i also cant damper down more than 3 clicks on the air. i f i go to the 4th i will get a back puff. occasionally i will go in between the 3rd and 4th click on the air. id like to just get a whole new stove but the wife would kill me.

Not familiar with your stove but my Encore is a top load. Mine also has a primary air control that is free moving, no clicks. If I cut my primary air down too far, even without the cat engaged it will flash over at times and the pressure will push smoke past the griddle gasket. It must actually lift the griddle a little as I've seen where it does it and that spot seals well to the gasket. If I have the cat engaged and turn it down too much too quickly it will really do the flashover, looks cool but puffs the smoke out of the griddle.

 

[RandyBoBandy]

Interesting, your griddle gasket looks way way way WAY thicker than mine.

It’s regular gasket rope. I don’t use the wire mesh gasket. It’s privy and a pain to work with. I would rather just redo every year or as need with regular old gasket rope.

 

[RandyBoBandy]

Well another nightmare burn last night.....

• Full load of big splits, al seemed fine when I went to bed
• Awakened by my cat alarm set to 1500
• Opened the bypass damper and flue temps went through the roof, 1200F
• Closed primary air down started to get back puffing so had to open it back up a bit.
• Tried to engage cat again, went to 1600.... opened damper
• Got things under control, went to bed again as temps were dropping.
• Cat Launched again and then gave up... out of fuel.

Time to start plugging holes again I guess.... I hate this stove....

View attachment 305342

I have my alarm set to 1550. In this situation I would have just closed my primary more without opening the damper. That is unless your primary is already fully closed. My go to setting for primary is just off fully closed. So what I do is wiggle the primary lever around until I hear it hit the casting of the stove. From here I just open it slightly to allow some air in because my secondary is blocked off and I keep a couple inches of ash in the stove so the epa holes are basically blocked as well.

 

[RandyBoBandy]

Ive only really found one way to burn with my dauntless. Medium.
Medium splits, medium air control, loaded up to a medium level.

STT runs at around 450-550. yes I have to adjust the air control a bit away from medium but medium is the target.
I run it on high only to catch a new load.
If I have a nice coal bed, and the sides of the stove are producing alot of heat, that's when I run on secondary. Never before that. The sides of the stove tell me everything.

I returned all my temp probes/data logger to my neighbor...and removed the cat. I may use it for when I want to 'take the edge off' from the house being 63 inside or for night times during the spring. See if that makes a difference and if I will be able to burn low overnight. So far, I havent been able to.

Overnight burns, I typically load up about 3/4 of the way. Never full. Medium splits only with a larger piece on the bottom. I get that going for about 30 minutes adjusting as needed to avoid a full box of flames. I make sure I have a good heat feel from the stove top and sides, look inside to make sure I have a nice coal bed still glowing and that the logs are easily flaming up quickly when I open the door...then I will set the air control to 50% , shut down the damper and wait another 30 minutes or so just checking to see what happens to the flames. At this point I will usually either let it sit where it is at or lower it a notch. But I never raise it, or lower it more than a notch at a time. Then I will either go to bed or check on it again in 30 minutes to make sure it's still riding the same way. At some point through the night, around 3-4, the STT gets to about 600 and the cat runs at 1500ish for a brief period of time. Maybe 30-45 minutes. Then it goes down slowly from there into the morning.

Ill take pictures of my glass in the morning tomorrow. I expect it to be the same. 1/2 to 3/4 of the glass fairly well clean, with the other portion covered but not thick. Not like I used to get.

There’s nothing wrong with 600 stove top and a peak of 1500 on the cat.

 

[Diabel]

There’s nothing wrong with 600 stove top and a peak of 1500 on the cat.

^^^^^^what he said.

 

[arnermd]

Thanks for the feedback.... I will try it again. 1500 seems pretty darn hot to me for a cat.... but I do not really know, I have not been able to get a definitive answer on this topic. I have asked VC and they have no response.... Searching all the literature I can find:

• Condar website indicates
  • Catalytic reaction maxes out at about 1300° Fahrenheit through any combustor. Exceeding this temperature is destructive to the combustor and to the components of your stove.
  • catalysts best operating temperatures are between 600° and 1500°F (316°-816°C)
  • Their analog Cat temp monitor indicates safe operating range up to 1500F
  • 
• Firecat Website indicates:
  • Temperatures above 1800°F (1000°C) will damage the combustor. Temperatures between 1400° and 1600°F (650-760°C) are common, but operating temperatures between 1000° and 1300°F (537-704°C) are recommended.
  • They have an excellent video series I would recommend to anyone who wants to learn: Link here https://www.youtube.com/@ACIIndustries
• My Operators manual gives no guidance whatsoever on peak temps.

So maybe you are right..... Since I have found no other solution, the alternative is to babysit my stove from now until March..... 1550 it is.

 

[arnermd]

Alarm is now set to 1550.....🤞

So what do you do at 1550? Is this to point when you throw in the towel and open the damper?
Or do you just dial the air down all the way? (assuming it is not full closed already)

 

[Eman85]

Now that I have a temp probe and watching it I start dialing my primary back at 1000* a little at a time. Passing 100 I'll be almost closed and it seems to settle.
I had asked about the cat getting hot and some said to open the air as it's getting too much smoke/fuel. Whenever I try that temps start rising so I end up closing the air to get the temps back down. If I can get it to settle in the 1300's it seems to stay there and be happy.

 

[arnermd]

Now that I have a temp probe and watching it I start dialing my primary back at 1000* a little at a time. Passing 100 I'll be almost closed and it seems to settle.
I had asked about the cat getting hot and some said to open the air as it's getting too much smoke/fuel. Whenever I try that temps start rising so I end up closing the air to get the temps back down. If I can get it to settle in the 1300's it seems to stay there and be happy.

If your griddle temp is too low opening the air can reduce cat temps. It will go up initially as it works through the smoke in the firebox but as the primary burn builds cat temps should come down.

That being said.... sometimes I increase primary air and cat temps go up initially, then down and then slowly climb to a billion degrees.....

Sometimes it is easier to open the damper, get the primary burn going good and then re-engage the cat. The proverbial "do-over"....

 

[bert670]

Wanted to thank @JohnDaileyNH for sharing that old post by jharkin from the 2016/2017 VC Owners thread. Using that info cut my learning curve down dramatically. I grew up helping my dad run a late 80’s/early 90’s Intrepid, but as far I know, efficient burning was never in our thought process. I always thought seeing smoke was just a sign that we had a fire going. Once I got on these forums, I regularly check my flue see what kind of smoke condition I have coming out. When I had my Dauntless installed last year, I ran it the way I knew how, just keep it around 500 and that keeps the house warm, regardless of smoke coming out the top end. I’ve been trying to get efficient burns over the last year, but it was a bit of a trial and error. I read that post 3 days ago, and I’ve been able to get and keep the cat engaged so much better. Still some little finagling to be had on my end, but at the end of the day, I couldn’t be happier. Most important thing I can tell people that have the Dauntless, you need to know your wood, and keep a nice bed of hot coals on the bottom, things that have been echoed numerous times on this forum.

 

[RandyBoBandy]

my 4th click down going from wide open to closed....its not enough air and ill get back puff

How tall is your chimney set up? How dry is your wood?

 

[RandyBoBandy]

Thanks for the feedback.... I will try it again. 1500 seems pretty darn hot to me for a cat.... but I do not really know, I have not been able to get a definitive answer on this topic. I have asked VC and they have no response.... Searching all the literature I can find:

• Condar website indicates
  • Catalytic reaction maxes out at about 1300° Fahrenheit through any combustor. Exceeding this temperature is destructive to the combustor and to the components of your stove.
  • catalysts best operating temperatures are between 600° and 1500°F (316°-816°C)
  • Their analog Cat temp monitor indicates safe operating range up to 1500F
  • View attachment 305432
• Firecat Website indicates:
  • Temperatures above 1800°F (1000°C) will damage the combustor. Temperatures between 1400° and 1600°F (650-760°C) are common, but operating temperatures between 1000° and 1300°F (537-704°C) are recommended.
  • They have an excellent video series I would recommend to anyone who wants to learn: Link here https://www.youtube.com/@ACIIndustries
• My Operators manual gives no guidance whatsoever on peak temps.

So maybe you are right..... Since I have found no other solution, the alternative is to babysit my stove from now until March..... 1550 it is.

What stove do you have? I don’t babysit my stove at all. I stick around until I have the primary air turned down to just about fully closed and then I go about my business. Hitting 1550 use to bother the hell out of me but now it’s whatever. It’s what the alarm is for. If the cat hit 1550 and stayed there for hours , then I might be more concerned. However if it runs up to 1550 and the alarm goes off I just turn down the primary to just above fully closed and the cat will settle down to somewhere between 1000-1400. I am comfortable with that.

 

[RandyBoBandy]

Alarm is now set to 1550.....🤞

So what do you do at 1550? Is this to point when you throw in the towel and open the damper?
Or do you just dial the air down all the way? (assuming it is not full closed already)

I dial down the primary. I can’t fully close my primary because I have my secondary blocked off and disabled. I wiggle the primary handle until I hear the flapper hit the casting and set it just barely open from that point. This isn’t a fixed point because the primary also has a coil thermostat that smooths out the heat curve to some degree. So if your firebox is super hot fully closed isn’t the same as fully closed on a cool firebox. The only time I will open the damper is if my cat temps shoot up faster than the fire has a chance to get the stove top hot enough for my liking. This usually happens if you close the damper to soon.

 

[JohnDaileyNH]

Hot reload, full stove. How long do you leave the damper open after loading?

 

[RandyBoBandy]

Now that I have a temp probe and watching it I start dialing my primary back at 1000* a little at a time. Passing 100 I'll be almost closed and it seems to settle.
I had asked about the cat getting hot and some said to open the air as it's getting too much smoke/fuel. Whenever I try that temps start rising so I end up closing the air to get the temps back down. If I can get it to settle in the 1300's it seems to stay there and be happy.

What happens if you start turning the primary down at say 750-800 cat temp? Hot reloads are tricky too. If you are reloading at cat temps in the 800 range the cat will want to take off. So in these situations I leave the primary air where it was during the last load. I fill the box and shut the damper right away This will keep the cat in check. I picked this up from @Woodsplitter67. Colder reloads, say below 600, I will open the primary all the way and do the standard procedure.
Fill stove to the top, flue hits 600, close damper, cat hits 800 start turning down primary, target stove top is 450-550, close primary to my cruise position, ignore the stove for 8-16 hours. Rinse and repeat.

 

[RandyBoBandy]

Hot reload, full stove. How long do you leave the damper open after loading?

If cat is still up around 800 on a hot reload I close the damper right away.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

Reloading.. This is all cat tempss by digital probe... At about 600 or below I will reestablish stove temperature and flue temp. This will not take long as the stove is already warm. At 600 to no more then 700 I will just put wood in and the air up to get cat going into the normal operating range.. For me the normal operating range is anywhere from like 850 to about 1200 degrees. For a hot reload.. When the cat is in the normal operating temperature.. I can add wood. You will need to leave the aire pretty much where it was.. for me its half open or a little less, Open the bypass put the wood in and quickly close bypass. There is not reason to let the load burn or turn your air up.. Your stove and cat are already at temp.. letting to much catch will result in super high cat temps.

@RandyBoBandy .. thanks for tagging me on this You add alot to this community.

 

[Eman85]

Reloading.. This is all cat tempss by digital probe... At about 600 or below I will reestablish stove temperature and flue temp. This will not take long as the stove is already warm. At 600 to no more then 700 I will just put wood in and the air up to get cat going into the normal operating range.. For me the normal operating range is anywhere from like 850 to about 1200 degrees. For a hot reload.. When the cat is in the normal operating temperature.. I can add wood. You will need to leave the aire pretty much where it was.. for me its half open or a little less, Open the bypass put the wood in and quickly close bypass. There is not reason to let the load burn or turn your air up.. Your stove and cat are already at temp.. letting to much catch will result in super high cat temps.

@RandyBoBandy .. thanks for tagging me on this You add alot to this community.

This is how I've been reloading. On cooler reload If I close air down too soon cat seems to stall and drop temps. On the other hand if I wait too long cat starts rising very quickly. As I've mentioned in other posts the secondary air shutter will reopen if I don't catch it and cat goes above 1600*. On a hot reload I can close the bypass right away and close the air down to where it was and the cat seems to rise, then it will settle.
It does require shutting the air down quite a bit to get the cat to cruise at 1300 and stop rising, some times it will shoot to 1500*.

 

[RandyBoBandy]

Reloading.. This is all cat tempss by digital probe... At about 600 or below I will reestablish stove temperature and flue temp. This will not take long as the stove is already warm. At 600 to no more then 700 I will just put wood in and the air up to get cat going into the normal operating range.. For me the normal operating range is anywhere from like 850 to about 1200 degrees. For a hot reload.. When the cat is in the normal operating temperature.. I can add wood. You will need to leave the aire pretty much where it was.. for me its half open or a little less, Open the bypass put the wood in and quickly close bypass. There is not reason to let the load burn or turn your air up.. Your stove and cat are already at temp.. letting to much catch will result in super high cat temps.

@RandyBoBandy .. thanks for tagging me on this You add alot to this community.

Thank you. You as well add important info here. Hence me giving credit to where it’s due. 👍

 

[Diabel]

With @RandyBoBandy you guys are in good hands here. Cannot really add to his comments.

 

[Eman85]

Here's a reload I did today. Stove has been hot for days and at reload time there was a good layer of glowing hot coals and some charred wood on top Cat was 750 STT was 300. Opened bypass and air and reloaded, while reloading cat dropped to 650. After reloading and air open with flames in the box closed bypass with cat at 650 and it dropped to 575 before rebounding to 1150 STT @425. Closed air to about 1/2 and cat settled at 1050 STT400. Cat eventually went to 1500 STT@400 and I cut air to about 80% closed. Cat settled at 1350 STT 400. cat rose to 1450 STT 400 and eventually settled at 150 STT 450. In between reload and the 1500 reading was probably 1/2hr to 45 min. After that I was outside doing some work so it was hours before I saw the 1450, I don't have a meter with memory on it or a graph so what it did in between I can't say. I will put my meter with memory on it so I can see what peak was when I leave it.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

Here's a reload I did today. Stove has been hot for days and at reload time there was a good layer of glowing hot coals and some charred wood on top Cat was 750 STT was 300. Opened bypass and air and reloaded, while reloading cat dropped to 650. After reloading and air open with flames in the box closed bypass with cat at 650 and it dropped to 575 before rebounding to 1150 STT @425. Closed air to about 1/2 and cat settled at 1050 STT400. Cat eventually went to 1500 STT@400 and I cut air to about 80% closed. Cat settled at 1350 STT 400. cat rose to 1450 STT 400 and eventually settled at 150 STT 450. In between reload and the 1500 reading was probably 1/2hr to 45 min. After that I was outside doing some work so it was hours before I saw the 1450, I don't have a meter with memory on it or a graph so what it did in between I can't say. I will put my meter with memory on it so I can see what peak was when I leave it.

what stove is this