2022/23 VC Owner thread

[arnermd]

Couple thoughts:

• These stoves can require a lot of attention, hopefully once you have learned out the process it will be easier. If things go well for me the stove needs 15 - 30 min of attention and then it is good for 8 -12 hours. If things go badly.... well then it need constant attention for 3 hours.
• Your flue temps seem low, how are you measuring it and where? Are you measuring a single wall outside pipe temp? Or do you have a probe inside the pipe? How far from the stove top?
  • For reference when I bypass the cat and run full air my exhaust gas will reach 500 - 700 when I am trying to heat things up.
  • With the cat engaged and cruising I typically see 300 - 350 on the exhaust gasses.
  • I have a thermocouple in the gas flow path about 3ft above the stove top.
• 8" liner seems big for this stove but I do not know the Dauntless. manual will tell you. Not sure it matters if it is too big.
• I do not really care about the cat life either, I have accepted the fact that mine is only going to last 1.5 to 2 seasons at best. Fortunately the cats I use are relatively inexpensive, $140. My bigger concern is stressing the refractory. I have failed 2 over the past 10 years. Not sure if it was from the heat or something else.... Fortunately I have lifetime warranty on the combustor, so it was replaced under warranty. But it was still inconvenient to get the parts, takes 4-6 weeks and then rebuild the stove.
• I have run without the cat too and I see no noticeable difference in heat output, but that's just my impression. Hard to actually measure it. Burn times are a little shorter maybe with no cat... I think the primary benefit of a cat is that you can run with lower airflows (colder stove top temps) and get more heat and longer burn times on low settings. If you are running wide open I think the cat adds little value. When i ran with no cat I was getting secondary combustion temps in the 1200F range but it took longer to get there and if I cut the air down it dropped as well.
• 3-4 hours of solid secondary burn time seems pretty normal to me. My cat usually starts to fall off in 304 hours. But the stove still has a very healthy bed of coals and still kicks out heat. But I think the defiant firebox holds a lot more wood than the Dauntless. You can see some of my earlier temp lots above and compare to what you are experiencing.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

New dauntless owner here.
I have spent about 2 weeks reading the crazy posts of these VC stoves. At least I'm not alone in my new found misery.
Here's my install.
My wife and I live in a cabin in Oregon and our old wood stove that was installed was on a raised harth. Its an old open faced fireplace and was either wide open hot or stone cold COLD. we had to load a log in it every 20 min similar to the fireplace challenges. It was useless.
I got a work performance bonus and figured I would use it for a new stove.
- I needed a top load, rear facing exit, shallow front due to the harth space. Width was very accommodating.
- I couldn't wait because of the tax rebate comming up
- I couldn't keep running the old stove that was burned out and our central heating system won't keep up with the cold alone. It would run non stop just to maintain 60deg in the house. I already had my load of firewood allocated for the year.

So I bought this VC dauntless.
Installations challenges:
I chose the rear exit because it needed to dip down under the granite surround facia.
I used a straight 6in single walled tube, with a 45deg bend up to a 6-8 inch adapter inside the fireplace. Our flew is 8 in double walled through the chimney. It's a total of 16 feet about the stove top.
Our draft isn't a problem, in fact it might be a tad low. This seems acceptable given the issues everyone else seems to have with run away issues.
I ran it for 3 weeks solid without the cat option, the seller had to order me one.
Dang, what a learning curve.
The stove seems more of a hobby heating device than an actual utility. Lots of ups and downs. Opening and closing the damper, opening and closing the primary air just to maintain temp.

We got the cat about a week ago and wow, now I can control the stove better. Not great, but better.

Here's my issue
I dont care about monitoring the cat temp, if I burn it up, I'll replace it every year.
I monitor stove top temps and flew temps. I need it to crank out heat to supplement our central air system.
Flew never gets over 300deg on fire up and pre heat, usually the sttp is about 550deg at that point.
I then close the damper and engage the cat.
I get a pretty ok burn of about 3-4 hours pumping out good heat and flew temps drop to about 250ish and sttp anywhere from 560- down to 350 throughout the burn.
I feel like the cat just helps me control the burn and clean up emissions, but it never seems to help make heat. I see zero output difference between the cat installed or removed.
Zero smoke out of the chimney when cat is engaged. The burn time didn't get longer with the cat, but its way more controllable.
Best burn to heat ratio is with cat engaged and air controll 3 clicks closed from full open. Any lower and it snuffs out and slowly gets cold, anyhigher and it eaaaasts wood like mad.

I burn very seasoned ash, maple and oak. I only use pine or fir for the initial stary and heat up.
Bottom line, these VC stoves require way to much work for a primary heating device.

Can u take a picture of your wood and post it.. ash and maple atr ok.. but if you looking for alot of heat.. you need wood wit higher BTUs.. also.. what is the mc i
of the wood.. what size area are you heating and how well is the house insulated.. did you do a block off plate and insulate it to stop any heat from going up and out..

 

[Eman85]

Well I woke up to this s**t show.....

Did my usual startup routine, raked coals to the back, loaded with wood 3/4 load. 100% air in bypass till stack temp came to 600 closed the damper and I heard the woosh....

• Cat went to 1000F in 2 minutes.
• Closed the air down to 50%. Cat went to 1550+
• Opened the damper closed the air down to 10%
• Closed the damper cat went to 1550+, opened damper
• Third time was a charm.... gonna be a great day.

I was fairly certain something was broken, this behavior was as aggressive as I have ever seen it.... Just removed the cat and checked, all seem fine. We shall see what the next burn brings.

I have come to the only logical conclusion, my stove is suffering from demonic possession. I need a priest.

I am so ready for a blaze king......

View attachment 305662

I didn't look for your previous graphs but in older ones wasn't your flue hotter than ST?
My stove is wearing me out. It's very inconsistent in how it burns with the cat engaged. Lastt night was the first night after 2 hours of babysitting it I finally opened the bypass, cut the air and burned it like an old style stove. I burned mine for a couple of years like this with no frets when the cat was bad. This thing now with a new cat and a temp probe is worse than a baby. I can get the cat to settle for an hour or so and then it will take off to 1600. I can get it to settle again with light flames in the firebox then I can be sitting in the other room and suddenly smell smoke from the stove puffing when the cat ran up and flashed over the firebox puffing out the top.

 

[NewGuy132]

Had a few drinks and based on the posts here finally decided after a year of running my stove to load it to the gills. It seems to be running ok. I’ll update if it takes off and burns my house down.

 

[GrumpyDad]

Had a few drinks and based on the posts here finally decided after a year of running my stove to load it to the gills. It seems to be running ok. I’ll update if it takes off and burns my house down.

Nothing wrong with loading it up and packing it tight. But here's the thing, will it catch? Eh,...it's going to gas for awhile. Quite awhile. Even if you leave the damper open and put some small sticks between each split row. Then...you think to yourself - eh I can lower it to like 1/3 and let it go. Well sir - that's where the gamble comes in. At this point you've babysat it for awhile, hoping it will start to heat up and watching all your probes go down...then it will start to go....and it make smolder..........................or the entire box may turn to a metal forge.

This is why the VC stoves are such Pieces of S. That alone would warrant them being piled onto a train car from cali > the east coast and dumped onto the factory that builds these. Oh but there are so many more quirks............and that just adds salts to the wounds.

 

[NewGuy132]

Nothing wrong with loading it up and packing it tight. But here's the thing, will it catch? Eh,...it's going to gas for awhile. Quite awhile. Even if you leave the damper open and put some small sticks between each split row. Then...you think to yourself - eh I can lower it to like 1/3 and let it go. Well sir - that's where the gamble comes in. At this point you've babysat it for awhile, hoping it will start to heat up and watching all your probes go down...then it will start to go....and it make smolder..........................or the entire box may turn to a metal forge.

This is why the VC stoves are such Pieces of S. That alone would warrant them being piled onto a train car from cali > the east coast and dumped onto the factory that builds these. Oh but there are so many more quirks............and that just adds salts to the wounds.

Yea it is t happy about it. Because I have seasoned wood it all caught. Cat temp went to 750 or so. Then I started brining the air down. The cat temp dropped as I brought the air down. Currently the air is closed all the way cat them is 550 and STT is 450. Probably making some smoke, but whatever.

 

[NewGuy132]

Update. 450 STT and 415 cat temp. I have obviously done something wrong.

Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night. Wait I’m a day early.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

Update. 450 STT and 415 cat temp. I have obviously done something wrong.

Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night. Wait I’m a day early.

Either your cat is bad.. or you didn't have enough coals to keep the cat lit off..

 

[Woodsplitter67]

heres the stove from the overnight burn last night.. glass cleaned up nicely.. cats at 982.. Im going to let the coals burn down some and load some wood in it.. I turned the air all the way up at 4.45am this is what it looks like after loading up the stove at 8pm the night before..

 

[Woodsplitter67]

Update. 450 STT and 415 cat temp. I have obviously done something wrong.

Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night. Wait I’m a day early.

Im going to post a reload for you so you can see how Im doing it.. hopefully this helps you gius out.. ok..

 

[arnermd]

Must be planetary alignment..... I had a decent burn last night, a bit on the cold side, full load. Up at 4 am this morning and opened the air up and had a real nice heavy bed of coals. Decided to try my luck with a hot -reload, big mistake.... Cat was around 600, griddle at 300. Loaded chock full & immediately closed the damper, set air to 50%, Cat went to 950, dialed down to 25% air. Cat went to 1200 and then started dropping to about 950 so I let it be. Went to do some other things, alarm went off, cat=1550, STT=350, flue gas = 550. Closed air down to 0%, in 5 min cat went to 1650-1700..... opened the damper, flue gas went to 1200.... Awesome. Closed the key damper to cut draft, reengaged cat after 5 min or so, went to 1600. Opened key damper and cat went to 1650 in 5 minutes. Opened bypass damper again, flue went to 700. Left it burn with damper open, key damper closed, air 0% for 30 minutes. Re-engaged cat and it went to 1200 and stabilized. A few hours later the stove is sitting there all smug.... Cat=830, STT = 450 air = 50%..... just shoot me.

All aboard the VC dumpster train.... choo- choo. Sadly I forgot to hit record on the data collection so I have no plots to share.

Im going to post a reload for you so you can see how Im doing it.. hopefully this helps you gius out.. ok..

I would appreciate it if you could post your hot reload process. These things seem to very inconsistent.

Merry Christmas to all. Santa please bring me a blaze king.....

 

[Diabel]

This is not how I normally burn.. It was 7 this morning so im going through more wood today than normal.. Ill post How I normally run the stove..

Good posts @Woodsplitter67

 

[Eman85]

@arnermd Must be something in the air, my stove has suddenly calmed down and is behaving. Hot reload cat goes to 12-1300, cut primary air to 1/2 and it peaked in the high 1400's and settled from there. Outside temps in single digits. Same wood mix off of the same pile as the other day when it wouldn't calm down.
I'm still in search of the real specs of the secondary shutter.

 

[arnermd]

This is not how I normally burn.. It was 7 this morning so im going through more wood today than normal.. Ill post How I normally run the stove..

Great info thanks for posting. The only differences I see compared to my disastrous burn this morning is:

• You did half a load, I did a full load (it was 2 deg outside here)
  • Did you do a half load intentionally because the stove was hot?
• You set air to 100% then 50% @ 1000F, I dialed mine down from 50% to 25% @ 950F
  • Is it possible dialing it down too quick or two far leads to 1650 cat temps?

I will keep trying and post any interesting temp plots....

 

[Woodsplitter67]

Great info thanks for posting. The only differences I see compared to my disastrous burn this morning is:

• You did half a load, I did a full load (it was 2 deg outside here)
  • Did you do a half load intentionally because the stove was hot?
• You set air to 100% then 50% @ 1000F, I dialed mine down from 50% to 25% @ 950F
  • Is it possible dialing it down too quick or two far leads to 1650 cat temps?

I will keep trying and post any interesting temp plots....

.I did a little more then half loads because I am home and I dont wat a full box of coals.. I can do 3/4 or all the way like this but with the temperatures the way they are.. my box will.coal up alot. As I stated.. I can burn an overnight load.likr this.. I dont thing your turning back to quick.. I think the opposite.. your having to much wood catch

 

[Woodsplitter67]

I want to start by saying.. Im not an expert on these stoves.. There are many here that have more knowledge regarding some of the stoves then I

Regarding the manual.. Its for you to get started.. but not the Bible.. The basics are set to get you started and a basic understanding of running the stove. This being said each stove and setup are a little different.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

Good posts @Woodsplitter67

thanks man.. working together to help others..

 

[JohnDaileyNH]

Must be planetary alignment..... I had a decent burn last night, a bit on the cold side, full load. Up at 4 am this morning and opened the air up and had a real nice heavy bed of coals. Decided to try my luck with a hot -reload, big mistake.... Cat was around 600, griddle at 300. Loaded chock full & immediately closed the damper, set air to 50%, Cat went to 950, dialed down to 25% air. Cat went to 1200 and then started dropping to about 950 so I let it be. Went to do some other things, alarm went off, cat=1550, STT=350, flue gas = 550. Closed air down to 0%, in 5 min cat went to 1650-1700..... opened the damper, flue gas went to 1200.... Awesome. Closed the key damper to cut draft, reengaged cat after 5 min or so, went to 1600. Opened key damper and cat went to 1650 in 5 minutes. Opened bypass damper again, flue went to 700. Left it burn with damper open, key damper closed, air 0% for 30 minutes. Re-engaged cat and it went to 1200 and stabilized. A few hours later the stove is sitting there all smug.... Cat=830, STT = 450 air = 50%..... just shoot me.

All aboard the VC dumpster train.... choo- choo. Sadly I forgot to hit record on the data collection so I have no plots to share.

I would appreciate it if you could post your hot reload process. These things seem to very inconsistent.

Merry Christmas to all. Santa please bring me a blaze king.....

My power has been out. Has my cat over fired? Nobody knows.

Merry Christmas

 

[JohnDaileyNH]

thanks man.. working together to help others..

This is awesome. Thank you. Do you always reload when your cat gets to 500?

 

[Woodsplitter67]

This is awesome. Thank you. Do you always reload when your cat gets to 500?

No.. I can reload at any time
. if the cat is 700 and I need to add more wood I would put wood in and Immediately close the bypass.. I would leave the air where it was.. most likely half way and let it Cruise..

 

[JohnDaileyNH]

No.. I can reload at any time
. if the cat is 700 and I need to add more wood I would put wood in and Immediately close the bypass.. I would leave the air where it was.. most likely half way and let it Cruise..

And that burns for 10 hours? Give or take? With the round splits?

 

[JohnDaileyNH]

And that burns for 10 hours? Give or take? With the round splits?

Let's see what happens. Cat was 700. At 6:39 I loaded the box. Waited 5 minutes, closed damper, air to halfway. I'll report back

 

[Woodsplitter67]

Let's see what happens. Cat was 700. At 6:39 I loaded the box. Waited 5 minutes, closed damper, air to halfway. I'll report back

nope.. dont wait.. this is where things go wrong.. your stove is already hot.. it was already to go.. load and close the bypass.. youll get to much off gassing.. look at the step by step.. every time.. I loaded closed the by pass IMMEDIATELY got the cat to 1000 and put the air half way and just let it run...

This is what your not getting.. why are you waiting to close the bypass.. the cat was already active and the stove was already up to temp.. there was no purpose of waiting 5 minutes.. you cooles the cat chamber and will have to much wood offgassing most likely..

 

[JohnDaileyNH]

nope.. dont wait.. this is where things go wrong.. your stove is already hot.. it was already to go.. load and close the bypass.. youll get to much off gassing.. look at the step by step.. every time.. I loaded closed the by pass IMMEDIATELY got the cat to 1000 and put the air half way and just let it run...

This is what your not getting.. why are you waiting to close the bypass.. the cat was already active and the stove was already up to temp.. there was no purpose of waiting 5 minutes.. you cooles the cat chamber and will have to much wood offgassing most likely..

Well I've had a few drinks and was letting the wood catch while reading the posts and 5 min went by, then I got to the "immediately close the bypass" part so I closed the bypass. Cats currently at 1002 now. Stove top at 300. Now just letting it run.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

And that burns for 10 hours? Give or take? With the round splits?

I split my own wood.. For overnight I split that wood square and rectangle.. This allows me to pack the box completely full.. My box is 2.3 cuft the Dauntless is a 1.8cuft.. Using oak and hickory Iv gotten 16 hours.
You guys with the smaller box should be able to push to 10 with a quality hardwood split correctly.. the quality of what your putting into the box is what your going to get out in heat output and Length of burn..