2022/23 VC Owner thread

[RandyBoBandy]

How much wood is in the load?

I load my stove all the way up to the griddle top

 

[JohnDaileyNH]

Thats what I figured. What about @NewGuy132 ?

I have the other problem on a full load sometimes it all off gases at once and the cat spikes to 1600

 

[RandyBoBandy]

Thats what I figured. What about @NewGuy132 ?

I have the other problem on a full load sometimes it all off gases at once and the cat spikes to 1600

Are you waiting to long to close the damper? Or waiting to long to start shutting the primary air.?

 

[JohnDaileyNH]

I think didn't leave the damper open long enough. Hot reload packed it closed the damper closed the primary down in stages eventually all the way. And just slowly ticked its way up to little above 1600 stayed there for 30 min then settled back around 1300 ran normal the rest of the burn another 7 hours or so. Thinking it just smoldered and smoked

 

[RandyBoBandy]

I think didn't leave the damper open long enough. Hot reload packed it closed the damper closed the primary down in stages eventually all the way. And just slowly ticked its way up to little above 1600 stayed there for 30 min then settled back around 1300 ran normal the rest of the burn another 7 hours or so. Thinking it just smoldered and smoked

Hot reloads can be tricky sometimes depending on the current cat temp. Last night I did a reload with the cat at 450*. This time I pushed all the coals to the back to give it a try. Cat definitely took off quick, however, I think my glass suffered from this. When I checked on it around 11 the glass was pretty dirty from having to shut down the primary to fast.

 

[JohnDaileyNH]

Hot reloads can be tricky sometimes depending on the current cat temp. Last night I did a reload with the cat at 450*. This time I pushed all the coals to the back to give it a try. Cat definitely took off quick, however, I think my glass suffered from this. When I checked on it around 11 the glass was pretty dirty from having to shut down the primary to fast.

My cat was at like 600 so probably had too many coal in the back then the gas and smoke just took off. I let the cat get lower before my overnight and had no issues. The whole time the cat was going insane the stove temp never got over 650

 

[JohnDaileyNH]

Hot reloads can be tricky sometimes depending on the current cat temp. Last night I did a reload with the cat at 450*. This time I pushed all the coals to the back to give it a try. Cat definitely took off quick, however, I think my glass suffered from this. When I checked on it around 11 the glass was pretty dirty from having to shut down the primary to fast.

I usually push the coals back do you not normally do that?

 

[arnermd]

Data from the last 24 hours. I removed all blockages so the stove is as built from factory.

The first load was a hot reload and it took off on me. I thought it was good but it looks like after bed time it took off to 1550. Still had a nice bed of coals in the morning. Second burn was a lot calmer....

In both cases once the cat reached 1000F I started to bring the primary air down in 2-3 steps to 40-50% or so, then left it alone. Both loads were pretty full 80- 90% full, big splits of red oak.

Stove definitely seems to run better with a bed of coals. I have been pushing the colas back if I do not have a good bed. Definitely brings the cat up to temp quicker.

 

[RandyBoBandy]

My cat was at like 600 so probably had too many coal in the back then the gas and smoke just took off. I let the cat get lower before my overnight and had no issues. The whole time the cat was going insane the stove temp never got over 650

In these situations you can open the damper and start the process over. Let the flue hit 600, close the damper, start closing primary in increments.

 

[RandyBoBandy]

I usually push the coals back do you not normally do that?

I pull them forward to the glass. Helps keep the glass clean. Also it’s easier to visually monitor what’s going on in the firebox

 

[arnermd]

Well another nightmare burn last night.....

• Full load of big splits, al seemed fine when I went to bed
• Awakened by my cat alarm set to 1500
• Opened the bypass damper and flue temps went through the roof, 1200F
• Closed primary air down started to get back puffing so had to open it back up a bit.
• Tried to engage cat again, went to 1600.... opened damper
• Got things under control, went to bed again as temps were dropping.
• Cat Launched again and then gave up... out of fuel.

Time to start plugging holes again I guess.... I hate this stove....

 

[JohnDaileyNH]

I pull them forward to the glass. Helps keep the glass clean. Also it’s easier to visually monitor what’s going on in the firebox

Going to try this. My glass stays relatively clean except for the corners. It is nice to be able to see the fire and flames.

 

[JohnDaileyNH]

Well another nightmare burn last night.....

• Full load of big splits, al seemed fine when I went to bed
• Awakened by my cat alarm set to 1500
• Opened the bypass damper and flue temps went through the roof, 1200F
• Closed primary air down started to get back puffing so had to open it back up a bit.
• Tried to engage cat again, went to 1600.... opened damper
• Got things under control, went to bed again as temps were dropping.
• Cat Launched again and then gave up... out of fuel.

Time to start plugging holes again I guess.... I hate this stove....

View attachment 305342

I never burned a wood stove before this season. Always jus thought it was a cast iron box with air control to slow burnt he wood. This is way more complicated than I ever thought. Knowing what I know now I'd probably have gone with a different stove but my dealer sold me on this. Mainly on looks because I had no clue how involved this would be. And it does look great in my living room, but it requires a lot more thought than I anticipated signing up for. Other than that, it will cost me less than half of what oil would cost me to heat my house so all in all I think it is a win. Basically paid the stove off in one season

 

[GrumpyDad]

I load my stove all the way up to the griddle top

View attachment 305236

Interesting, your griddle gasket looks way way way WAY thicker than mine.

 

[JohnDaileyNH]

Interesting, your griddle gasket looks way way way WAY thicker than mine.

Another person had this issue on a brand new stove. Maybe a defect? Might be worth checking put could be the over fire cause

 

[arnermd]

I never burned a wood stove before this season. Always jus thought it was a cast iron box with air control to slow burnt he wood. This is way more complicated than I ever thought. Knowing what I know now I'd probably have gone with a different stove but my dealer sold me on this. Mainly on looks because I had no clue how involved this would be. And it does look great in my living room, but it requires a lot more thought than I anticipated signing up for. Other than that, it will cost me less than half of what oil would cost me to heat my house so all in all I think it is a win. Basically paid the stove off in one season

I love burning wood and all that goes with it, felling, bucking splitting, stacking etc.... I find it very fulfilling.

The VC stoves are beautiful, no doubt about it and they have some awesome features. But these newer 2n1 stoves are terrible designs. No doubt the quest for higher efficiency and tightening EPA regulations have made it much harder to design a stable wood burner, but I think removing the the secondary air control was a huge mistake. Not that the older stoves with secondary air control were perfect either.... but I suspect they were easier to control.

All stoves have their idiosyncrasies, some are more touchy than others. There is always a learning process, you learn what the stove likes and doesn't like and eventually you should be able to achieve repeatable burns (assuming consistent dry wood of course). With my stove I have been experimenting, modding and learning for 10 years..... I am fairly certain for my design (defiant model 1975) there is no process that will yield consistent burns, the design is inherently unstable. I have days and even weeks where things seem fine and then I will get a string of cat over-temps. I do not know why.....

Never again will I buy a newer VC stove or any other stove without active secondary air control. Not what you want to hear but misery loves company.....

 

[Eman85]

Interesting, your griddle gasket looks way way way WAY thicker than mine.

I just replaced my griddle gasket and mine is thinner and covered in stainless mesh.

 

[Eman85]

I never burned a wood stove before this season. Always jus thought it was a cast iron box with air control to slow burnt he wood. This is way more complicated than I ever thought. Knowing what I know now I'd probably have gone with a different stove but my dealer sold me on this. Mainly on looks because I had no clue how involved this would be. And it does look great in my living room, but it requires a lot more thought than I anticipated signing up for. Other than that, it will cost me less than half of what oil would cost me to heat my house so all in all I think it is a win. Basically paid the stove off in one season

I've burned my VC since we bought it new in 87. Many of those years was with just a STT magnetic thermometer. It's almost like the more monitoring the more stressful it gets. I burned mine for a while as a metal box with an air control and didn't engage the cat as I knew it was burned out. The stove worked fine, I could get 8-9 hour burns and heat my home just fine. Granted I did have to clean the chimney during heating season and it did build creosote. This year I resealed the stove, put a new cat in and put a temperature probe on the cat and replaced the secondary air control coil. I've had more stress over the stove then I ever did in the past. There's a few things that I think have caused my stress. I think the newer cats are more active than the older ones. I think my secondary air never worked for years and was stuck shut. Now that I have it working it's causing more problems that I didn't have before. Add the digital display of the probe and it's a lot more stressful than before.

 

[JohnDaileyNH]

I love burning wood and all that goes with it, felling, bucking splitting, stacking etc.... I find it very fulfilling.

The VC stoves are beautiful, no doubt about it and they have some awesome features. But these newer 2n1 stoves are terrible designs. No doubt the quest for higher efficiency and tightening EPA regulations have made it much harder to design a stable wood burner, but I think removing the the secondary air control was a huge mistake. Not that the older stoves with secondary air control were perfect either.... but I suspect they were easier to control.

All stoves have their idiosyncrasies, some are more touchy than others. There is always a learning process, you learn what the stove likes and doesn't like and eventually you should be able to achieve repeatable burns (assuming consistent dry wood of course). With my stove I have been experimenting, modding and learning for 10 years..... I am fairly certain for my design (defiant model 1975) there is no process that will yield consistent burns, the design is inherently unstable. I have days and even weeks where things seem fine and then I will get a string of cat over-temps. I do not know why.....

Never again will I buy a newer VC stove or any other stove without active secondary air control. Not what you want to hear but misery loves company.....

haha for sure it does. I had no idea the concept of downdraft. But now it seems entirely counterproductive to this process. Smoke naturally will want to go up. Why force it down? Seems this was overengineered but what do I know, I sit at a desk all day

 

[JohnDaileyNH]

I've burned my VC since we bought it new in 87. Many of those years was with just a STT magnetic thermometer. It's almost like the more monitoring the more stressful it gets. I burned mine for a while as a metal box with an air control and didn't engage the cat as I knew it was burned out. The stove worked fine, I could get 8-9 hour burns and heat my home just fine. Granted I did have to clean the chimney during heating season and it did build creosote. This year I resealed the stove, put a new cat in and put a temperature probe on the cat and replaced the secondary air control coil. I've had more stress over the stove then I ever did in the past. There's a few things that I think have caused my stress. I think the newer cats are more active than the older ones. I think my secondary air never worked for years and was stuck shut. Now that I have it working it's causing more problems that I didn't have before. Add the digital display of the probe and it's a lot more stressful than before.

I had no stress before the digital probe. I just did it by feel and engaged the cat and let it go. No doubt it was overheating but I had no clue so no worries. Figure I will absolutely destroy this cat this season and hopefully have it somewhat figured out by the time next season starts and just start fresh. Wonder if a steel cat would function better or not. My fear is it would warp quickly since the cat temps get so high sometimes.

 

[Diabel]

Interesting, your griddle gasket looks way way way WAY thicker than mine.

So not mistaken this gasket with wire mesh gasket.

 

[GrumpyDad]

I love burning wood and all that goes with it, felling, bucking splitting, stacking etc.... I find it very fulfilling.

The VC stoves are beautiful, no doubt about it and they have some awesome features. But these newer 2n1 stoves are terrible designs. No doubt the quest for higher efficiency and tightening EPA regulations have made it much harder to design a stable wood burner, but I think removing the the secondary air control was a huge mistake. Not that the older stoves with secondary air control were perfect either.... but I suspect they were easier to control.

All stoves have their idiosyncrasies, some are more touchy than others. There is always a learning process, you learn what the stove likes and doesn't like and eventually you should be able to achieve repeatable burns (assuming consistent dry wood of course). With my stove I have been experimenting, modding and learning for 10 years..... I am fairly certain for my design (defiant model 1975) there is no process that will yield consistent burns, the design is inherently unstable. I have days and even weeks where things seem fine and then I will get a string of cat over-temps. I do not know why.....

Never again will I buy a newer VC stove or any other stove without active secondary air control. Not what you want to hear but misery loves company.....

Ive only really found one way to burn with my dauntless. Medium.
Medium splits, medium air control, loaded up to a medium level.

STT runs at around 450-550. yes I have to adjust the air control a bit away from medium but medium is the target.
I run it on high only to catch a new load.
If I have a nice coal bed, and the sides of the stove are producing alot of heat, that's when I run on secondary. Never before that. The sides of the stove tell me everything.

I returned all my temp probes/data logger to my neighbor...and removed the cat. I may use it for when I want to 'take the edge off' from the house being 63 inside or for night times during the spring. See if that makes a difference and if I will be able to burn low overnight. So far, I havent been able to.

Overnight burns, I typically load up about 3/4 of the way. Never full. Medium splits only with a larger piece on the bottom. I get that going for about 30 minutes adjusting as needed to avoid a full box of flames. I make sure I have a good heat feel from the stove top and sides, look inside to make sure I have a nice coal bed still glowing and that the logs are easily flaming up quickly when I open the door...then I will set the air control to 50% , shut down the damper and wait another 30 minutes or so just checking to see what happens to the flames. At this point I will usually either let it sit where it is at or lower it a notch. But I never raise it, or lower it more than a notch at a time. Then I will either go to bed or check on it again in 30 minutes to make sure it's still riding the same way. At some point through the night, around 3-4, the STT gets to about 600 and the cat runs at 1500ish for a brief period of time. Maybe 30-45 minutes. Then it goes down slowly from there into the morning.

Ill take pictures of my glass in the morning tomorrow. I expect it to be the same. 1/2 to 3/4 of the glass fairly well clean, with the other portion covered but not thick. Not like I used to get.

 

[GrumpyDad]

I've burned my VC since we bought it new in 87. Many of those years was with just a STT magnetic thermometer. It's almost like the more monitoring the more stressful it gets. I burned mine for a while as a metal box with an air control and didn't engage the cat as I knew it was burned out. The stove worked fine, I could get 8-9 hour burns and heat my home just fine. Granted I did have to clean the chimney during heating season and it did build creosote. This year I resealed the stove, put a new cat in and put a temperature probe on the cat and replaced the secondary air control coil. I've had more stress over the stove then I ever did in the past. There's a few things that I think have caused my stress. I think the newer cats are more active than the older ones. I think my secondary air never worked for years and was stuck shut. Now that I have it working it's causing more problems that I didn't have before. Add the digital display of the probe and it's a lot more stressful than before.

I think my air control bimetal whatever is buggy. If you have it on high, sometimes when you shut it down it doesnt respond so I have to go back and forth with it for it to finally unstick. Bet it's creosote between the coils. Genius design.

 

[newguyjoe]

i also dont fill my stove anymore. 3 decent logs and watch for 20 minutes or so before going to bed.i also cant damper down more than 3 clicks on the air. i f i go to the 4th i will get a back puff. occasionally i will go in between the 3rd and 4th click on the air. id like to just get a whole new stove but the wife would kill me.

 

[GrumpyDad]

i also dont fill my stove anymore. 3 decent logs and watch for 20 minutes or so before going to bed.i also cant damper down more than 3 clicks on the air. i f i go to the 4th i will get a back puff. occasionally i will go in between the 3rd and 4th click on the air. id like to just get a whole new stove but the wife would kill me.

im not sure what you mean by the 4th click back puffs. Are you going from lowest to highest with 3 clicks and the 4th click backpuffs?
Ive only had one backpuff and that was during a startup phase, going too quickly from low>high as I was new and was quickly trying to see the difference it made. Kinda amazing to see smoke woosh through all the areas you probably thought were airtight huh? . Ok maybe not amazing, alarming at first..
I have a 15' assembly from my stove top to the chimney top (excluding cap). My assembly has a single wall adapter for the stove, then a double wall on top of that, followed by a 12" piece, a telescopic piece that goes into a 45 el, then another telescopic piece that goes into another el which then goes into the chimney support box. Draft seems pretty good. In fact if I open the damper with 1/2 - 3/4 load of wood that has caught, a massive amount of flames while come up and go through the damper where most of the flames die out but some keeps going up the flue pipe.